mirage62 0 #1 October 30, 2014 Tim Cook, Apple CEO recently said: Cook says in an essay for Bloomberg BusinessWeek. “So let me be clear: I’m proud to be gay, and I consider being gay among the greatest gifts God has given me.“ http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/technology/tim-cook-says-he-is-%e2%80%9cproud-to-be-gay%e2%80%9d/ar-BBc25yw?ocid=iehp Truthfully I don't get that statement. I mean my gay friends don't seem "proud" to be gay and certainly never state that. They sure aren't ashamed to be gay either (as they certainly shouldn't be!) But imagine what would happen if Warren Buffet had made the same statement for being straight “So let me be clear: I’m proud to be straight, and I consider being straight among the greatest gifts God has given me.“ I fairly sure some people will open this thread thinking I was gay bashing, far from it, but I don't see being gay or straight as something to be proud of. Personally I believe you are born gay or straight and that's just the way it is. Now being CEO of Apple is something that would make my mama proud. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #2 October 30, 2014 I agree. I've discussed it in the past about people who are proud of being white. Pride shouldn't be over something one has no control over. [Quote]Now being CEO of Apple is something that would make my mama proud Bingo. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #3 October 30, 2014 For the same reason we have black history month but not white history month. Typically when a group faces challenges and adversary, you hear statements such as, "well, I'm proud to be XX." I'm pretty sure if straight people faced the same challenges that gay people face, you'd be hearing more, "I'm proud to be straight," talk.Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #4 October 30, 2014 LyraM45For the same reason we have black history month but not white history month. Typically when a group faces challenges and adversary, you hear statements such as, "well, I'm proud to be XX." I'm pretty sure if straight people faced the same challenges that gay people face, you'd be hearing more, "I'm proud to be straight," talk. This. Not that it will end the thread (I can already "see" the next dozen posts); but it does substantively complete the thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #5 October 30, 2014 Quote I'm pretty sure if straight people faced the same challenges that gay people face, you'd be hearing more, "I'm proud to be straight," talk. Sorry, but for me that isn't much of an answer. I mean really I would support (not that it matters) "As a gay man I am proud of the progress we have made over the last 10 years." for example. But the act of being gay (or straight) is not a thing to be proud of one way or the other. I'm hoping that others may have something to add to the conversation - other than gays had it hard so they can be proud. They certainly have and continue to it some areas, but what are we up to 30 states that allow gay marriage (good). Do we really need to continue to debate (separate) gays from main stream America? Note: Mr. Cook can certainly be proud to be gay, that is his decision. I just don't think it's something to be proud of.Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,935 #6 October 30, 2014 mirage62Quote I'm pretty sure if straight people faced the same challenges that gay people face, you'd be hearing more, "I'm proud to be straight," talk. Sorry, but for me that isn't much of an answer. I mean really I would support (not that it matters) "As a gay man I am proud of the progress we have made over the last 10 years." for example. But the act of being gay (or straight) is not a thing to be proud of one way or the other. I'm hoping that others may have something to add to the conversation - other than gays had it hard so they can be proud. They certainly have and continue to it some areas, but what are we up to 30 states that allow gay marriage (good). Do we really need to continue to debate (separate) gays from main stream America? Note: Mr. Cook can certainly be proud to be gay, that is his decision. I just don't think it's something to be proud of. Are you proud to be American?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #7 October 30, 2014 If you've been told your whole life that you should be ashamed of being gay, it's more of a statement of defiance and perserverence than anything else. I think the word "proud" can have more than one connotation. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backintothesky 0 #8 October 30, 2014 Fucking bingo. We're all proud of stuff that we've had no choice in being. One could argue that your entire personality, beliefs, morals, religious views are not really a choice you've made in the first place thanks to a variety of genetic and environmental factors that made you that way. kallendAre you proud to be American? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #9 October 30, 2014 Good points all.Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 October 30, 2014 DanGIf you've been told your whole life that you should be ashamed of being gay, it's more of a statement of defiance and perserverence than anything else. I think the word "proud" can have more than one connotation. this works I think the idea is that eventually race, sex, etc, becomes mainstream enough that people don't feel it's something to overcome or deal with - then the idiotic "I'm proud to be" stuff will go away on its own. Be proud of accomplishments makes sense. The other connotations really are just making a statement more than actually being 'proud'. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #11 October 30, 2014 mirage62 Truthfully I don't get that statement. I mean my gay friends don't seem "proud" to be gay and certainly never state that. They sure aren't ashamed to be gay either (as they certainly shouldn't be!) And yet, historically gays have stayed in the closet - mostly to avoid persecution but also because others would be ashamed of them. Straights don't hide their orientation. This leads to a black and white state - either you're proud to come out, or you're ashamed and hiding it. Tim Cook is asserting the first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,445 #12 October 30, 2014 QuoteI fairly sure some people will open this thread thinking I was gay bashing, far from it, but I don't see being gay or straight as something to be proud of. Personally I believe you are born gay or straight and that's just the way it is. Absolutely - but people that are gay are going to encounter a lot of attitudes from people who don't think that way. People that would tell you that you should be ashamed to be gay. In that context exclaiming that you're proud should be taken as a refusal to be ashamed, rather than an assertion that being gay is something that they've achieved, or something that's better than being straight.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,445 #13 October 30, 2014 QuoteSorry, but for me that isn't much of an answer. I mean really I would support (not that it matters) "As a gay man I am proud of the progress we have made over the last 10 years." for example. But the act of being gay (or straight) is not a thing to be proud of one way or the other. Language is malleable. Get over it. QuoteI'm hoping that others may have something to add to the conversation Like what? You don't seem to have left any other avenues open.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #14 October 30, 2014 Jakee, It's an open forum but is there a particular reason your so snarky? I don't have anything to "Get over" Since I posted "I'm hoping that others may have something to add to the conversation" several poster added comments that I agreed were worth while post. Many of your post strike my as someone who likes to be aggressive behind the keyboard, no need for that. Relax. You don't like my post - skip them and I'll do the same for yours.Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,409 #15 October 30, 2014 rehmwa***If you've been told your whole life that you should be ashamed of being gay, it's more of a statement of defiance and perserverence than anything else. I think the word "proud" can have more than one connotation. this works I think the idea is that eventually race, sex, etc, becomes mainstream enough that people don't feel it's something to overcome or deal with - then the idiotic "I'm proud to be" stuff will go away on its own. Be proud of accomplishments makes sense. The other connotations really are just making a statement more than actually being 'proud'. It is not uncommon for people to state to be proud of a greater collective, regardless of their own achievements within that group. I am proud to be American. I am proud to be a veteran. I am proud to be a soldier/marine/name your branch. I am a proud New Yorker. I am a proud......name of sports team.....fan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #16 October 30, 2014 SkyDekker I am proud to be American. I am proud to be a veteran. I am proud to be a soldier/marine/name your branch. I am a proud New Yorker. I am a proud......name of sports team.....fan. There are even people proud to be from Delaware. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,445 #17 October 30, 2014 QuoteI don't have anything to "Get over" If you still disagree with someone being proud to be gay (because they're using the word 'proud' in a slightly different way to how you use it) then you do. If you've accepted the other comments in this thread then you don't. QuoteSince I posted "I'm hoping that others may have something to add to the conversation" several poster added comments that I agreed were worth while post. Which was the same comment I made, which was a slightly different way of stating the same comment you replied to from Lyra. Beyond that I don't see what else there is to add. There are topics which have multiple avenues for debate and there are topics which are question, answer, job done.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #18 October 30, 2014 This is a very good thread. Amazing level of respect and good points being made by both sides. Cogent. Reasonable minds can differ. What a thought? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #19 October 30, 2014 SkyDekker It is not uncommon for people to state to be proud of a greater collective, regardless of their own achievements within that group. I am proud to be American. I am proud to be a veteran. I am proud to be a soldier/marine/name your branch. I am a proud New Yorker. I am a proud......name of sports team.....fan. at least I can return the Captain Obvious title veteran or soldier/etc can be tied to accomplishing something but the others, yes, I do find that silly. "Proud" is an abused word and people should stop it. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,409 #20 October 30, 2014 rehmwa ***It is not uncommon for people to state to be proud of a greater collective, regardless of their own achievements within that group. I am proud to be American. I am proud to be a veteran. I am proud to be a soldier/marine/name your branch. I am a proud New Yorker. I am a proud......name of sports team.....fan. at least I can return the Captain Obvious title veteran or soldier/etc can be tied to accomplishing something but the others, yes, I do find that silly. "Proud" is an abused word and people should stop it. I knew I was setting you up there... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #21 October 30, 2014 kelpdiver And yet, historically gays have stayed in the closet - mostly to avoid persecution but also because others would be ashamed of them. Straights don't hide their orientation. This leads to a black and white state - either you're proud to come out, or you're ashamed and hiding it. Tim Cook is asserting the first. 3rd option - screw history, option is, "so what, it's a normal option for living a life, and not a big deal, others can deal with it or not" I'd assert there isn't two options, there's three: 1 - hiding it 2 - not hiding it (I call it 'coming out') 3 - COMING OUT!!!!!! I'm a fan of #2 - sad for those in #1 - and a bit tired of #3 happily seeing more people opting for #2. The more people treat these things as normal, the faster the remainder of society will overall treat it as normal. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 60 #22 October 30, 2014 Today on CNBC Street Signs, I think, I was channel surfing, they announced a list of LGBT millionaires. ???Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,409 #23 October 30, 2014 rehmwa*** And yet, historically gays have stayed in the closet - mostly to avoid persecution but also because others would be ashamed of them. Straights don't hide their orientation. This leads to a black and white state - either you're proud to come out, or you're ashamed and hiding it. Tim Cook is asserting the first. 3rd option - screw history, option is, "so what, it's a normal option for living a life, and not a big deal, others can deal with it or not" I'd assert there isn't two options, there's three: 1 - hiding it 2 - not hiding it (I call it 'coming out') 3 - COMING OUT!!!!!! I'm a fan of #2 - sad for those in #1 - and a bit tired of #3 happily seeing more people opting for #2. The more people treat these things as normal, the faster the remainder of society will overall treat it as normal. I am hoping that one day soon there is no need for people to hide/come out. Just because it won't be an issue. I don't understand why it matters one way or the other. Hopefully one day it will just be a non-issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #24 October 30, 2014 RonD1120Today on CNBC Street Signs, I think, I was channel surfing, they announced a list of LGBT millionaires. ??? Those are the only ones that are out, you could probably quadruple that number with all of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 60 #25 October 30, 2014 QuoteHopefully one day it will just be a non-issue. Like being a Christian and sharing the gospel of Christ, eh.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
