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mirage62

Why would someone be "proud" of being gay?

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Tim Cook, Apple CEO recently said:

Cook says in an essay for Bloomberg BusinessWeek. “So let me be clear: I’m proud to be gay, and I consider being gay among the greatest gifts God has given me.“

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/technology/tim-cook-says-he-is-%e2%80%9cproud-to-be-gay%e2%80%9d/ar-BBc25yw?ocid=iehp

Truthfully I don't get that statement. I mean my gay friends don't seem "proud" to be gay and certainly never state that. They sure aren't ashamed to be gay either (as they certainly shouldn't be!)

But imagine what would happen if Warren Buffet had made the same statement for being straight

“So let me be clear: I’m proud to be straight, and I consider being straight among the greatest gifts God has given me.“

I fairly sure some people will open this thread thinking I was gay bashing, far from it, but I don't see being gay or straight as something to be proud of. Personally I believe you are born gay or straight and that's just the way it is.

Now being CEO of Apple is something that would make my mama proud. ;)
Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

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For the same reason we have black history month but not white history month. Typically when a group faces challenges and adversary, you hear statements such as, "well, I'm proud to be XX."

I'm pretty sure if straight people faced the same challenges that gay people face, you'd be hearing more, "I'm proud to be straight," talk.
Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

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LyraM45

For the same reason we have black history month but not white history month. Typically when a group faces challenges and adversary, you hear statements such as, "well, I'm proud to be XX."

I'm pretty sure if straight people faced the same challenges that gay people face, you'd be hearing more, "I'm proud to be straight," talk.



This.
Not that it will end the thread (I can already "see" the next dozen posts); but it does substantively complete the thread.

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I'm pretty sure if straight people faced the same challenges that gay people face, you'd be hearing more, "I'm proud to be straight," talk.



Sorry, but for me that isn't much of an answer. I mean really I would support (not that it matters) "As a gay man I am proud of the progress we have made over the last 10 years." for example.

But the act of being gay (or straight) is not a thing to be proud of one way or the other.

I'm hoping that others may have something to add to the conversation - other than gays had it hard so they can be proud. They certainly have and continue to it some areas, but what are we up to 30 states that allow gay marriage (good). Do we really need to continue to debate (separate) gays from main stream America?

Note: Mr. Cook can certainly be proud to be gay, that is his decision. I just don't think it's something to be proud of.
Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

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mirage62

Quote


I'm pretty sure if straight people faced the same challenges that gay people face, you'd be hearing more, "I'm proud to be straight," talk.



Sorry, but for me that isn't much of an answer. I mean really I would support (not that it matters) "As a gay man I am proud of the progress we have made over the last 10 years." for example.

But the act of being gay (or straight) is not a thing to be proud of one way or the other.

I'm hoping that others may have something to add to the conversation - other than gays had it hard so they can be proud. They certainly have and continue to it some areas, but what are we up to 30 states that allow gay marriage (good). Do we really need to continue to debate (separate) gays from main stream America?

Note: Mr. Cook can certainly be proud to be gay, that is his decision. I just don't think it's something to be proud of.



Are you proud to be American?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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If you've been told your whole life that you should be ashamed of being gay, it's more of a statement of defiance and perserverence than anything else.

I think the word "proud" can have more than one connotation.

- Dan G

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Fucking bingo.

We're all proud of stuff that we've had no choice in being.

One could argue that your entire personality, beliefs, morals, religious views are not really a choice you've made in the first place thanks to a variety of genetic and environmental factors that made you that way.

kallend

Are you proud to be American?

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DanG

If you've been told your whole life that you should be ashamed of being gay, it's more of a statement of defiance and perserverence than anything else.

I think the word "proud" can have more than one connotation.



this works

I think the idea is that eventually race, sex, etc, becomes mainstream enough that people don't feel it's something to overcome or deal with - then the idiotic "I'm proud to be" stuff will go away on its own. Be proud of accomplishments makes sense. The other connotations really are just making a statement more than actually being 'proud'.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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mirage62


Truthfully I don't get that statement. I mean my gay friends don't seem "proud" to be gay and certainly never state that. They sure aren't ashamed to be gay either (as they certainly shouldn't be!)



And yet, historically gays have stayed in the closet - mostly to avoid persecution but also because others would be ashamed of them. Straights don't hide their orientation.

This leads to a black and white state - either you're proud to come out, or you're ashamed and hiding it. Tim Cook is asserting the first.

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I fairly sure some people will open this thread thinking I was gay bashing, far from it, but I don't see being gay or straight as something to be proud of. Personally I believe you are born gay or straight and that's just the way it is.



Absolutely - but people that are gay are going to encounter a lot of attitudes from people who don't think that way. People that would tell you that you should be ashamed to be gay. In that context exclaiming that you're proud should be taken as a refusal to be ashamed, rather than an assertion that being gay is something that they've achieved, or something that's better than being straight.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Sorry, but for me that isn't much of an answer. I mean really I would support (not that it matters) "As a gay man I am proud of the progress we have made over the last 10 years." for example.

But the act of being gay (or straight) is not a thing to be proud of one way or the other.



Language is malleable. Get over it.

Quote

I'm hoping that others may have something to add to the conversation



Like what? You don't seem to have left any other avenues open.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Jakee, It's an open forum but is there a particular reason your so snarky? I don't have anything to "Get over"

Since I posted "I'm hoping that others may have something to add to the conversation" several poster added comments that I agreed were worth while post.

Many of your post strike my as someone who likes to be aggressive behind the keyboard, no need for that. Relax. You don't like my post - skip them and I'll do the same for yours.
Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

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rehmwa

***If you've been told your whole life that you should be ashamed of being gay, it's more of a statement of defiance and perserverence than anything else.

I think the word "proud" can have more than one connotation.



this works

I think the idea is that eventually race, sex, etc, becomes mainstream enough that people don't feel it's something to overcome or deal with - then the idiotic "I'm proud to be" stuff will go away on its own. Be proud of accomplishments makes sense. The other connotations really are just making a statement more than actually being 'proud'.

It is not uncommon for people to state to be proud of a greater collective, regardless of their own achievements within that group.

I am proud to be American.
I am proud to be a veteran.
I am proud to be a soldier/marine/name your branch.
I am a proud New Yorker.
I am a proud......name of sports team.....fan.

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I don't have anything to "Get over"



If you still disagree with someone being proud to be gay (because they're using the word 'proud' in a slightly different way to how you use it) then you do. If you've accepted the other comments in this thread then you don't.

Quote

Since I posted "I'm hoping that others may have something to add to the conversation" several poster added comments that I agreed were worth while post.



Which was the same comment I made, which was a slightly different way of stating the same comment you replied to from Lyra. Beyond that I don't see what else there is to add. There are topics which have multiple avenues for debate and there are topics which are question, answer, job done.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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SkyDekker

It is not uncommon for people to state to be proud of a greater collective, regardless of their own achievements within that group.

I am proud to be American.
I am proud to be a veteran.
I am proud to be a soldier/marine/name your branch.
I am a proud New Yorker.
I am a proud......name of sports team.....fan.



at least I can return the Captain Obvious title :P

veteran or soldier/etc can be tied to accomplishing something

but the others, yes, I do find that silly. "Proud" is an abused word and people should stop it.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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rehmwa

***It is not uncommon for people to state to be proud of a greater collective, regardless of their own achievements within that group.

I am proud to be American.
I am proud to be a veteran.
I am proud to be a soldier/marine/name your branch.
I am a proud New Yorker.
I am a proud......name of sports team.....fan.



at least I can return the Captain Obvious title :P

veteran or soldier/etc can be tied to accomplishing something

but the others, yes, I do find that silly. "Proud" is an abused word and people should stop it.

I knew I was setting you up there... ;)

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kelpdiver


And yet, historically gays have stayed in the closet - mostly to avoid persecution but also because others would be ashamed of them. Straights don't hide their orientation.

This leads to a black and white state - either you're proud to come out, or you're ashamed and hiding it. Tim Cook is asserting the first.



3rd option - screw history, option is, "so what, it's a normal option for living a life, and not a big deal, others can deal with it or not"

I'd assert there isn't two options, there's three:

1 - hiding it
2 - not hiding it (I call it 'coming out')
3 - COMING OUT!!!!!!

I'm a fan of #2 - sad for those in #1 - and a bit tired of #3

happily seeing more people opting for #2. The more people treat these things as normal, the faster the remainder of society will overall treat it as normal.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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rehmwa

***
And yet, historically gays have stayed in the closet - mostly to avoid persecution but also because others would be ashamed of them. Straights don't hide their orientation.

This leads to a black and white state - either you're proud to come out, or you're ashamed and hiding it. Tim Cook is asserting the first.



3rd option - screw history, option is, "so what, it's a normal option for living a life, and not a big deal, others can deal with it or not"

I'd assert there isn't two options, there's three:

1 - hiding it
2 - not hiding it (I call it 'coming out')
3 - COMING OUT!!!!!!

I'm a fan of #2 - sad for those in #1 - and a bit tired of #3

happily seeing more people opting for #2. The more people treat these things as normal, the faster the remainder of society will overall treat it as normal.

I am hoping that one day soon there is no need for people to hide/come out. Just because it won't be an issue. I don't understand why it matters one way or the other. Hopefully one day it will just be a non-issue.

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