ibx 2 #1 October 15, 2014 http://www.bradycampaign.org/sites/default/files/Children-and-Guns-Report.pdf Guns don't kill people, children that find daddies gun lying around kill people. These children and teens need to learn how to take personal responsibility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #2 October 15, 2014 ibx http://www.bradycampaign.org/sites/default/files/Children-and-Guns-Report.pdf Guns don't kill people, children that find daddies gun lying around kill people. These children and teens need to learn how to take personal responsibility. Hundreds of people die every day in vehicle crashes in the U.S. Where's the outrage then? "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #3 October 15, 2014 ibxhttp://www.bradycampaign.org/sites/default/files/Children-and-Guns-Report.pdf Guns don't kill people, children that find daddies gun lying around kill people. These children and teens need to learn how to take personal responsibility. Page 6- of that 7/day, 61% were homicides (largely gang members shooting each other - and yes, they do need to take personal responsibility when they choose to become criminals), and 32% more were suicides. The remaining 5% (150) were the tragic accidental shootings, but that number sounds pretty lame next to the number killed in car accidents and pools. If you go to page 9, you finally see them admit that 85% of these 2703 deaths were older teens aged 15-19, so the claim that 7 childen and teens die each day is a fairly blatant distortion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #4 October 15, 2014 >Hundreds of people die every day in vehicle crashes in the U.S. But one person dies of Ebola, and you might as well quarantine Texas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #5 October 15, 2014 Quote But one person dies of Ebola, and you might as well quarantine Texas. Well everything is bigger in Texas(ebola outbreak) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgriff 0 #6 October 15, 2014 I'm still hung up on the 3 step process to suicide proof my home... At least these guys are good for some comic relief. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #7 October 15, 2014 Quote7 children and teens died every day from guns. https://imgflip.com/i/d3vz5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ibx 2 #8 October 16, 2014 QuoteIf you go to page 9, you finally see them admit that 85% of these 2703 deaths were older teens aged 15-19, so the claim that 7 childen and teens die each day is a fairly blatant distortion. So 15-19 year olds are somehow not children and teens? Interesting... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seedy 0 #9 October 16, 2014 I would like to see someone go through and separate out all of these deaths that are attributed to gang related activity. To me, this study is attempting to blame all children deaths on legal firearms, and I would bet that that is not in fact the case. I intend to live forever -- so far, so good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #10 October 16, 2014 ibxGuns don't kill people, children that find daddies gun lying around kill people. ibxQuoteIf you go to page 9, you finally see them admit that 85% of these 2703 deaths were older teens aged 15-19, so the claim that 7 childen and teens die each day is a fairly blatant distortion. So 15-19 year olds are somehow not children and teens? Interesting... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arvoitus 1 #11 October 16, 2014 ibxQuoteIf you go to page 9, you finally see them admit that 85% of these 2703 deaths were older teens aged 15-19, so the claim that 7 childen and teens die each day is a fairly blatant distortion. So 15-19 year olds are somehow not children and teens? Interesting... Afaik 18 and 19 aren't considered children and they fall into that group. Without knowing any better I bet majority of the black(probably gang related) homicides that make the majority of the non-suicide deaths of those statistics are leaning more towards the 'legally an adult' category. In my opinion, like some others, they took some statistics and tried to paint a picture where children are being killed left, right and center by evils guns, but in reality majority of the deaths are due to suicides and wannabe gangbangers killing each other. Still, for the average(white) kid the backyard pool is far more dangerous then their parents legal guns.Your rights end where my feelings begin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ibx 2 #12 October 16, 2014 QuoteI would like to see someone go through and separate out all of these deaths that are attributed to gang related activity. To me, this study is attempting to blame all children deaths on legal firearms, and I would bet that that is not in fact the case. because the availability of illegal firearms in no way correlates to the availability of legal firearms. I also just learned hat the day I enter a gang my previously legal firearm is suddenly illegal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ibx 2 #13 October 16, 2014 QuoteAfaik 18 and 19 aren't considered children and they fall into that group. Without knowing any better I bet majority of the black(probably gang related) homicides that make the majority of the non-suicide deaths of those statistics are leaning more towards the 'legally an adult' category. The emphasis is on eightTEEN and nineTEEN. A nineTEEN year old is still a TEENager. But in a country where 10 year olds are tried as adults the difference seems to be semantics. Quote In my opinion, like some others, they took some statistics and tried to paint a picture where children are being killed left, right and center by evils guns, but in reality majority of the deaths are due to suicides and wannabe gangbangers killing each other. Today I learned teen suicide and gang violence is no longer tragic and no steps should be taken to reduce this. Quote Still, for the average(white) kid the backyard pool is far more dangerous then their parents legal guns. I also learned that is apparently only important what is safe for the average white kid. The blatant racism in you argument is unbelievable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 124 #14 October 16, 2014 QuoteHundreds of people die every day in vehicle crashes in the U.S. Where's the outrage then? Crazy There is little outrage, but we do take measures to further regulate cars and driving, who can drive and what they can drive. People go to jail just for making mistakes while driving that cause damage death and injury. We force manufacturers to change the cars to make them safer, we force insurance to be purchased for cars and drivers to ensure that the damage done to society is somewhat reimbursed, and we continuously expect to see these changes in the name of safety. Cars don't kill people but yes, we regulate the hell out of them to make driving safer and it works for the most part. Car safety is better than ever and these programs are proven to work. But thanks for making the point... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arvoitus 1 #15 October 16, 2014 ibxQuoteAfaik 18 and 19 aren't considered children and they fall into that group. Without knowing any better I bet majority of the black(probably gang related) homicides that make the majority of the non-suicide deaths of those statistics are leaning more towards the 'legally an adult' category. The emphasis is on eightTEEN and nineTEEN. A nineTEEN year old is still a TEENager. But in a country where 10 year olds are tried as adults the difference seems to be semantics. Quote In my opinion, like some others, they took some statistics and tried to paint a picture where children are being killed left, right and center by evils guns, but in reality majority of the deaths are due to suicides and wannabe gangbangers killing each other. Today I learned teen suicide and gang violence is no longer tragic and no steps should be taken to reduce this. Quote Still, for the average(white) kid the backyard pool is far more dangerous then their parents legal guns. I also learned that is apparently only important what is safe for the average white kid. The blatant racism in you argument is unbelievable. Teen suicide is tragic. Its just that the method they end up using is entirely irrelevant. The racism is implied by original wording of the statistic. They want to imply that all kids are under threat of being killed by guns when in reality its mostly minority kids in gangs who are at risk. If instead of 'THE TRUTH ABOUT KIDS & GUNS' they'd have worded something like 'Gangs and suicide source of majority of underage gun violence', the response would be totally different. With the current headline, most people will jump on the retarded please-think-of-children-ban-all-guns retard train that will do nothing but cause stupid political arguments. Instead with a proper headline people would realize there is a reason behind the gun violence and would start focusing on those reasons instead of focusing on the tool that is used to commit the violence with.Your rights end where my feelings begin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ibx 2 #16 October 16, 2014 QuoteTeen suicide is tragic. Its just that the method they end up using is entirely irrelevant. I don't think thats irrelevant at all. But this discussion is beyond the scope of this post. QuoteThe racism is implied by original wording of the statistic. They want to imply that all kids are under threat of being killed by guns when in reality its mostly minority kids in gangs who are at risk. The racism is implied by the interpretation by labeling minority kids as a different kind of kid than an average white one. I agree though, that the solution to the problem can not ignore the socio economic background of the people most at risk. QuoteIf instead of 'THE TRUTH ABOUT KIDS & GUNS' they'd have worded something like 'Gangs and suicide source of majority of underage gun violence', the response would be totally different. With the current headline, most people will jump on the retarded please-think-of-children-ban-all-guns retard train that will do nothing but cause stupid political arguments. I cannot disagree here. QuoteInstead with a proper headline people would realize there is a reason behind the gun violence and would start focusing on those reasons instead of focusing on the tool that is used to commit the violence with. Ironically the very reason behind a lot of gun violence is the religious fervor in which guns and access to them are worshiped in US Society. I think this study tries to show the downside to free unregulated access of guns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,120 #17 October 16, 2014 QuoteTeen suicide is tragic. Its just that the method they end up using is entirely irrelevant. No it isn't. Not all suicide is a thoroughly planned event. Taking away an easy tool may indeed prevent a suicide. There is no way to state that all gun suicides would take place without guns. (stop frothing at the mouth. I don't think a gun ban in the US would achieve anything any time soon. Just don't see the logic in the argument) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgriff 0 #18 October 16, 2014 ibxIronically the very reason behind a lot of gun violence is the religious fervor in which guns and access to them are worshiped in US Society. I think this study tries to show the downside to free unregulated access of guns. Ironically, the seed article seems to show the exact opposite... That the "free unregulated" (which actually translates into "expensive and highly regulated") access to guns is, in fact, a very minor part of the issue. The vast majority of the deaths are unrelated, and would occur even if we did throw out all of our rights. As for the religious fervor with which SOME Americans worship rights (not guns), I wish we could spread it! It's sickening how 90% of my countrymen are more than willing to give up their rights and/or take them away from others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #19 October 16, 2014 SkyDekkerQuoteTeen suicide is tragic. Its just that the method they end up using is entirely irrelevant. No it isn't. Not all suicide is a thoroughly planned event. Taking away an easy tool may indeed prevent a suicide. There is no way to state that all gun suicides would take place without guns. But since, as shown by this propaganda piece, the majority of suicides by youths are by non gun methods (60%), it's evident that they're quite capable of finding other methods. A higher level of proof, IMO, is needed to show that the guns are the reason they killed themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #20 October 16, 2014 ibxQuoteAfaik 18 and 19 aren't considered children and they fall into that group. Without knowing any better I bet majority of the black(probably gang related) homicides that make the majority of the non-suicide deaths of those statistics are leaning more towards the 'legally an adult' category. The emphasis is on eightTEEN and nineTEEN. A nineTEEN year old is still a TEENager. But in a country where 10 year olds are tried as adults the difference seems to be semantics. You're muddling up your talking points now. Either you want to continue with the intentional lies that older teens are children (when quite a few are in fact adults), or you want to make hay with the prosecution of some very young people as adults. But since we already established that 85% of this 7/day are 15-19yos, you can't straddle both. It wasn't that long ago that they tried to stretch children to go all the way up to 23, because metrics were collected for the 14-23 cohort and they wanted to inflate the distortion even further. That was a pretty hard lie to maintain, so now they're just shoveling a little less bullshit. Apparently you're fine with playing that game, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,120 #21 October 16, 2014 kelpdiver***QuoteTeen suicide is tragic. Its just that the method they end up using is entirely irrelevant. No it isn't. Not all suicide is a thoroughly planned event. Taking away an easy tool may indeed prevent a suicide. There is no way to state that all gun suicides would take place without guns. But since, as shown by this propaganda piece, the majority of suicides by youths are by non gun methods (60%), it's evident that they're quite capable of finding other methods. A higher level of proof, IMO, is needed to show that the guns are the reason they killed themselves. I am not trying to prove that guns are the reason they are killing themselves, nor am I trying to defend the brady piece. As stated I didn't agree with the logic in the statement that those who commit suicide with a gun, would also commit suicide without a gun. That is all. And that 60% kill themselves via other methods still does not prove that they are capable of finding other methods. For that to stand you would still have to prove they used the other method due to their inability to find a gun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #22 October 17, 2014 kelpdiver***QuoteTeen suicide is tragic. Its just that the method they end up using is entirely irrelevant. No it isn't. Not all suicide is a thoroughly planned event. Taking away an easy tool may indeed prevent a suicide. There is no way to state that all gun suicides would take place without guns. But since, as shown by this propaganda piece, the majority of suicides by youths are by non gun methods (60%), it's evident that they're quite capable of finding other methods. A higher level of proof, IMO, is needed to show that the guns are the reason they killed themselves. Regardless, compared to ebola deaths which are causing a major panic among GOP congressmen, gun deaths are a major epidemic yet cause not a ripple of concern.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ibx 2 #23 October 17, 2014 QuoteYou're muddling up your talking points now. Either you want to continue with the intentional lies that older teens are children (when quite a few are in fact adults), or you want to make hay with the prosecution of some very young people as adults. But since we already established that 85% of this 7/day are 15-19yos, you can't straddle both. It wasn't that long ago that they tried to stretch children to go all the way up to 23, because metrics were collected for the 14-23 cohort and they wanted to inflate the distortion even further. That was a pretty hard lie to maintain, so now they're just shoveling a little less bullshit. Apparently you're fine with playing that game, too. The headline you criticized stated teens AND children. I was just making the point that nineteen year olds are still teens and should be included in every children AND teens statistic. With the second sentence I was saying there is no clear line between adults and children in the completely dysfunctional US judicial system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #24 October 17, 2014 600,050 people are killed by lightning strikes and heart disease every year in the US. In your opening post you wrote "Guns don't kill people, children that find daddies gun lying around kill people." so don't insult us by suggesting that you or the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Ownership are including late teen firearm deaths for any reason other than inflating statistics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ibx 2 #25 October 17, 2014 Quote600,050 people are killed by lightning strikes and heart disease every year in the US. At lot of those heart disease deaths would preventable by just eating less and moving more... What this has to do with current discussion is beyond me. Quote In your opening post you wrote "Guns don't kill people, children that find daddies gun lying around kill people." so don't insult us by suggesting that you or the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Ownership are including late teen firearm deaths for any reason other than inflating statistics. Yeah, at what age does a firearm death become not tragic or statistically irrelevant? Please enlighten us. The only thing insulting is your complete lack of empathy for anybody above a certain arbitrary age. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
