California Bans Plastic Bags

[rehmwa 2]

lawrocket

I think this is more of the symbolism over substance because the big picture is far less important than doing something.

nonsense - politicians always choose what's best for us and never just put out laws for PR gains.

especially in such emotionally charged, complicated and subjective issues like environmentalism


further, they never do exactly the wrong thing just because voters THINK it's the right thing


we need to trust our leaders

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lawrocket 3]

SkyDekker

Quote

Let's look at what goes into the production, shipment and use of the paper bag. Trees get cut down. Then they have to be processed into pulp. This takes massive amounts of water and chemicals.

Pretty sure California is mandating recycled paper bags.

As a lawyer you probably know that when your argument starts with a false premise......

Recycled paper bags? Right. The same issues of greenhouse gases, water use, chemicals, weight, etc., apply. With the added benefit that recycled paper has long been proven to be weaker and easier to tear.

Other than the fewer cut-down trees, the point remains. (It also goes to biodegradable plastics as a requirement. Which goes to the heart of my issue, too. California loves greenhouse gases!)

It's the same shit. The energy, water and chemical pollution required to produce or recycle paper bags, as well as the transportation costs, etc. Eventually they end up as greenhouse gases.

Plastic bags? Not liked because people litter with them and won't throw them away. So California would rather the oceans rise and the planet heat than just pick up after istelf.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

One is that people aren't cleaning them and food-borne contaminants are getting people sick. People are reusing bags and putting veggies in a bag that held raw chicken a day before.

It's possible that I understood wrong, but I got the impression that plastic bags would still be available for use in the meat section at grocery stores. I've never felt the need to wash my reusable bags (mine are mostly polyurethane, or something similar, which say to clean with a damp cloth), but then I don't just throw raw chicken or other messy stuff in them.

[lawrocket 3]

Shotgun

Quote

One is that people aren't cleaning them and food-borne contaminants are getting people sick. People are reusing bags and putting veggies in a bag that held raw chicken a day before.

It's possible that I understood wrong, but I got the impression that plastic bags would still be available for use in the meat section at grocery stores. I've never felt the need to wash my reusable bags (mine are mostly polyurethane, or something similar, which say to clean with a damp cloth), but then I don't just throw raw chicken or other messy stuff in them.

Yes. Those will still be allowed, but no plastic bags with handles. The plastic bags in the produce section can remain.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[headoverheels 291]

When I was an undergrad (40 yrs ago), my roomie and I decided to see who could re-use their paper lunch bag the longest, thinking a week would be good. We both made it through the entire quarter.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

lawrocket

***

Quote

Let's look at what goes into the production, shipment and use of the paper bag. Trees get cut down. Then they have to be processed into pulp. This takes massive amounts of water and chemicals.

Pretty sure California is mandating recycled paper bags.

As a lawyer you probably know that when your argument starts with a false premise......

Recycled paper bags? Right. The same issues of greenhouse gases, water use, chemicals, weight, etc., apply. With the added benefit that recycled paper has long been proven to be weaker and easier to tear.

Other than the fewer cut-down trees, the point remains. (It also goes to biodegradable plastics as a requirement. Which goes to the heart of my issue, too. California loves greenhouse gases!)

It's the same shit. The energy, water and chemical pollution required to produce or recycle paper bags, as well as the transportation costs, etc. Eventually they end up as greenhouse gases.

Plastic bags? Not liked because people litter with them and won't throw them away. So California would rather the oceans rise and the planet heat than just pick up after istelf.

Right.

So to do nothing means that all these products, including plastic bags still are manufactures.

Except the plastic bags have to go to a landfill, which requires energy. Since they don't decompose new landfill sites continue to have to be found. With continued digging etc.

So, your argument is that the increase in greenhouse gasses related to manufacturing of the substitute products is higher than the decrease in greenhouse gasses required to processes the discarded plastic bags?

Except you aren't putting any numbers beside any of your arguments. Without those numbers there is no way to establish if what you are saying makes any sense.

[champu 1]

You mean when I tell the butcher to throw a pork shoulder, a whole raw chicken, and three pounds of ground beef directly into my canvas bag that's wrong?

Should I not do that?

[Andy9o8 0]

headoverheels

When I was an undergrad (40 yrs ago), my roomie and I decided to see who could re-use their paper lunch bag the longest, thinking a week would be good. We both made it through the entire quarter.

Do you still have it?

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi rocket,

Quote

recycled paper has long been proven to be weaker and easier to tear.

So what; along as they are strong enough to hold what people want to put into them, they will work just fine.

I doubt that I have ever put over 10 lbs of anything into a paper grocery bag; well, maybe once or twice about 15 lbs. I use them all of the time.

My son is an attorney also; he also lacks in understanding of technical things.

Jerry Baumchen

[champu 1]

My biggest problem with paper bags is that the handles were apparently designed under the assumption that only one bag would be carried per hand at a time. If you pick up two bags that are fairly full with one hand the load paths* get all screwed up and you'll rip the handles off of one or both of the bags, even if there's not a lot of weight in them.

* the handles are glued on in such a way that they're only any good in sheer, they suck with tension or peel forces applied.

[Shotgun 1]

champu

You mean when I tell the butcher to throw a pork shoulder, a whole raw chicken, and three pounds of ground beef directly into my canvas bag that's wrong?

Should I not do that?

Hey, drive fast, take chances, throw raw meat in your hippie bags . . .

Something's gotta kill you.

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]you aren't putting any numbers beside any of your arguments

[hajnalka 0]

Quote

the handles are glued on in such a way that they're only any good in sheer, they suck with tension or peel forces applied.

Awesome.

[kawisixer01 0]

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/paper-plastic1.htmhttp://plastics.americanchemistry.com/Analysis-of-Polyethylene-and-Unbleached-Paper-Grocery-Sacks Here's some numbers for you all to argue over.

[turtlespeed 212]

hajnalka

Quote

the handles are glued on in such a way that they're only any good in sheer, they suck with tension or peel forces applied.

Awesome.

Was that a banana joke?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Elisha 1]

BillyVance

***That's an interesting point....what type of pet waste bags will they use now?

They'd have to buy those rolls of plastic bags at the grocery store. I'd rather reuse plastic grocery bags for that purpose.

Ditto here. I use them to scoop the cat box.

[airdvr 197]

What are people using for trash?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[BartsDaddy 4]

airdvr

What are people using for trash?

Well I use these exact bags they are outlawing.
Its not a one to one on getting vs usage but its close. I have not taken any to recycle in about 5 years and I have probably a hundred or two bags here waiting to be used for trash or when I pick apples or pears.
Now that I will not be getting free trash bags I will have to buy the bigger and thicker bags they sell. Readmore plastic per bag going to the landfill. Yeah lawmakers.

That is the problem when it is your job to make laws. You want your name on laws to show you are doing your job and deserve reelection. I understand the tthinking. But it gets to a point where you don't need 500 new laws each year. Just enforce the ones we have.
But if the lawmakers say we have enough we don't need anymore. The public will cry this is the most us less senate or assembly I have ever seen.
So they pass bull white laws to say they did something.
If I did that at work I would have been fired 13 years ago. I have been there 14 now.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[jcd11235 0]

BartsDaddy

But it gets to a point where you don't need 500 new laws each year.

That would require passing appropriations bills to provide the executive branch with sufficient funding. I don't know about California, but that's something the legislatures of many states are loath to do.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[champu 1]

BartsDaddy

But it gets to a point where you don't need 500 new laws each year.

500? P'shaw... We used to DREAM of 500 new laws a year. The Assembly goes through 3000 and the Senete goes through 1500 easy.

Seriously, go to gov.ca.gov, click on "newsroom" and look at the legislative updates to see what comes out of the California legislature.

[Shotgun 1]

Now I have stopped using my reusable bags so that I can stockpile plastic bags for the next year.

And maybe I should start looking into more environment-friendly ways to dispose of cat poop.

[champu 1]

http://www.amazon.com/900-Count-Earth-Rated®-Lavender-Scented-Refill/dp/B008BGRXXM/ref=zg_bs_3052413011_12

They're "Earth Rated" (! ... ? .... ? but still !, right?)

[airdvr 197]

champu

http://www.amazon.com/900-Count-Earth-Rated®-Lavender-Scented-Refill/dp/B008BGRXXM/ref=zg_bs_3052413011_12

They're "Earth Rated" (! ... ? .... ? but still !, right?)

Maybe I could become the Mr. White of plastic bags. "Breaking Glad".

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[BartsDaddy 4]

I knew the 500 number was low. I just wanted to avoid the inevitable of somebody saying to give cites of the 3000.
The point is, and I'm sure you got it, we don't need new laws just for the sake of passing them.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[Shotgun 1]

champu

http://www.amazon.com/900-Count-Earth-Rated®-Lavender-Scented-Refill/dp/B008BGRXXM/ref=zg_bs_3052413011_12

They're "Earth Rated" (! ... ? .... ? but still !, right?)

Well, they are "green," which happens to be my favorite color. And they are lavender-scented, so scooping poop will be more like a relaxing spa experience.