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airdvr

This cop needs to go

By airdvr, in Speakers Corner

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skycop    0

skycop
I was deployed with some SC Troopers, I have to say I wasn't impressed, But all of them were much younger than me.
I had to deal with them on an issue involving one of my troops, they had no idea I was a civilian cop.
I did an investigation and proved them wrong, they were not happy campers. When they tried to call me out on my investigative skills, they quickly found out I had been doing investigations for a lot longer then they had and over much more serious things.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

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lawrocket    3

lawrocket
cvfd1399

Yea your right I guess he should have gotten killed then.



It would have been funny in a dark humor way. I reckon that you've seen videos of robbers shooting themselves accidentally. I remember about 25 years ago in LA there was a guy who shot himself in the head while pistol-whipping someone.

Mel Brooks said that "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when a man falls into a sewer and dies."

Tackleberry here's trigger finger was a bit itchy. I'm also somewhat amused by the "blame the victim" mentality. I don't know whether people are aware of this, but recently it has been in the news that it is unacceptable for a man to punch a woman. And those that pointed the finger at the woman were figuratively shot down like a black man with a seatbelt violation.

Blaming the victim used to work. The tide is changing. And the same for cops. It seems that even the police agree this guy didn't deserve to be shot. In my mind, it's little different in circumstance that some dude with a beef shooting another motorist. Yeah, it happened to be a cop who thought he was doing his job. But this shooter who happened to be a cop is going to learn what it's like on the other side.

The shame is that this may have a chilling effect on legitimate use of force. Trigger happy cops in trouble make all other cops gun shy.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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skycop    0

skycop
There is no blame the victim mentality here, the officer panicked and fucked up..........BAD.
Criminal bad, debatable but yes potentially.
There is negligence, criminal negligence, reckless and wanton behavior.
To what level will need to be decided by the legal system, both criminal and civil.
The civil answer is a no-brainer, the criminal is a bit more complicated.
I agree the guy who did this has no business in law enforcement.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

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wolfriverjoe    1,340

wolfriverjoe
lawrocket


...The shame is that this may have a chilling effect on legitimate use of force. Trigger happy cops in trouble make all other cops gun shy.



I guess I don't see less use of force as a "shame." Civilians are run "over the coals" whenever there is a defensive gun use. It has a strong chilling effect on the use of deadly force (at least for those that take the time and effort to learn properly).

There's way too much of it right now. GeorgiaDon mentioned a couple incidents that were similar to this (as in the cops were way too quick on the trigger).

Maybe it will get the cops to stop putting themselves in positions where a "sudden movement" could be misinterpreted as a "deadly threat."

The case in Florida(?) with the old man digging through his own car is one - Maybe instead of coming right up behind him and screaming "Don't move!!!", they should have stood back a few feet and waited for him to stand up on his own. Perhaps even taking positions far apart enough that they could cover each other properly.

And in this case, where the cop told the guy to get his paperwork, then shot him for complying too eagerly, maybe the cop should have asked first - "Please don't move, but do you have your license, registration and insurance?" then "Without moving, please tell me where it is."

I know that "slow and easy with hands in plain sight" is the best way to interact with cops. Not everyone does and not everyone remembers to in the "heat of the moment." If the cop is doing his job well, then he (or she) will remind the subject (maybe repeatedly) of this.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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wolfriverjoe    1,340

wolfriverjoe
aphid

Man, you make it sound like a combat environment. I sure hope it really isn't that bad. [:/]



It really isn't. You said that you experienced it while dressed for riding. It sounded like the cop explained that your reaching into your jacket could have been taken as reaching for a gun. Since there was no real reason for you to be doing something that stupid, he didn't panic.

Unfortunately, traffic stops are the second most dangerous thing a cop can do (first is a domestic violence call). The cop has no real idea of who you are, what you may have done and how you will react.
You may well have just robbed the gas station down the road and killed the clerk. Or you might be a white supremacist fugitive from justice (real situation).The cop just doesn't know.

My ex-wife had a cop lecture her rather severely about reaching into the glove box - she had gone for the registration just as he reached the window. He wasn't real happy about it. She wasn't either, but she understood better after I explained why the cop freaked out (the cop never explained why, he just bitched).

As GeorgiaDon said in the other thread (we seem to be posting very similar stuff at about the same time): By keeping calm, keeping my hands in plain view and moving slowly, I don't make the cop uncomfortable. That makes him a bit more willing to let me off easier.

And there are some areas that are basically war zones. I see it when I'm on the road. Cops are always 2 to a car. The second one will take a position either by the cop car, or behind the subject car while the first goes to the driver's window. They will often pull all the people out of the car and have them sit on the guardrail while they talk to the driver (or go through the car). Proper training and technique allow the cops to minimize the risk by making it clear to the "bad guys" (some of them are really bad, too) that they are well covered and won't be able to get away with anything they might think to pull.

Other cops get careless, turn their backs, allow hands to disappear, and on and on. Those cops sometimes get hurt or killed.
Which makes the less competent cops all the more "trigger happy."
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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billvon    2,396

billvon
>How is he an asshole for making a mistake exactly?

Because he shot an unarmed man who was doing exactly as he was told.

Let's say you go to a bar and order a drink. The bartender brings you a beer. You reach for your wallet to pay for it and the guy next to you hits you in the face with a pitcher, breaking your jaw. Because he thought you might be reaching for a gun. Is he an asshole?

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billvon    2,396

billvon
>He made a fraction of a second life or death mistake. That does not make
>him an asshole.

Is the guy who broke your jaw an asshole? Or would you tell him "no worries, it happens?"

If you shoot someone who is doing exactly what you tell them to do, then you're an asshole. (In fairness he might also be criminally incompetent.) Fortunately the police have made it clear that his action was totally unjustified and in fact criminal.

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lawrocket    3

lawrocket
[Reply]I think what he did ended up being the wrong choice...



Interesting. On another thread, a guy as shot by a clerk he was trying to rob. His family members and friends described it as he made a bad choice.

[Reply]
When this is what could happen to you every day at your job, you could make that mistake too.



And some guy on a street in an inner city makes the decision to carry a gun because it's not "if" but "when" he is going to be jumped/mugged/robbed/assaulted. Fill in the rest...

Cop as acting with self-preservation in mind. Anybody else acts similarly and I'd figure that police (and probably you) would frown upon it.

Why is it limited to cops? Yeah, I guess Ray Rice has that argument. His fiancee wouldn't shut up and he just made a mistake. Could happen to anybody. Every day you have a significant other you could make that mistake, too.

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lawrocket    3

lawrocket
cvfd1399

He made a fraction of a second life or death mistake. Making a mistake does not make you an asshole. Calling someone who made a mistake an asshole makes you and asshole.



Making a mistake doesn't make you an asshole.

Making a mistake with a firearm and shooting someone makes you an asshole. Period.

Doing it on purpose makes you a psychopath.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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GeorgiaDon    340

GeorgiaDon
mirage62

So? The question is how many deserved to be killed?

"deserved to be killed" is a judgement only courts can make. If you're OK with allowing the police to decide who deserves to live and who deserves to die, you have a very different vision of America than I do.

The question is "how many of those police shootings resulted from situations in which police had no reasonable alternative course of action"?

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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