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riggerrob

Video cameras on beat cops?

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If it breaks, tough. It's the ability to turn it off when you want to that's doubtful, for the same reason that police getting pissed about people filming them is doubtful. And in the case of cop-borne video, the chance of it's being creatively edited goes down, I would hope.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Please tell me how you are going to have a system that has the following features everyone is requesting here

-Rugged
-Court approved sufficient video and audio quality for legal purposes.
-Tamper proof
-Wearable and portable
-Enough memory to capture a whole 12 hour shift with no gap in recording, OR a proven way to ensure that it turns on when it needs to to reduce memory and battery use.
-Remotely disabled by supervisor upon request(bathroom visits, private phone calls?)
-Multiple secure backups for legal reasons
-Cost effective.
-Able to transfer the massive amounts of data fast to the evidence room at the end of shift.

1 hour of gopro video at 1080(30fps) is 9.1 gigabytes. Say your department has 50 officers on duty at a time working 12 hour shifts. Thats 10920 gigabytes to store per day.. or 3985.8 terabytes per year times backups. Anyone care to guess the cost per terabyte for commercial storage? Your looking at a minimum 6 figures for this department using rented space online, and more for your own physical hardware not including start up costs, energy costs, cooling costs, personnel, and hardware replacement.

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>Then by all means Bill, please design a system that works all the time, in all
>conditions, and is durable enough to stand up to repeated and lengthy use.

No system (including cops themselves) work all the time in all conditions. However, systems that are far more reliable than, say, a cop's car or his gun are now readily available off-the-shelf. The Vievu LE3 is a good example.

>Again, the internet has made everyone an expert..........

Including, apparently, you.

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riggerrob

Back when cockpit video recorders were introduced, the Airline Pilots' Association (union) angrily declared that they did want video footage used to fire or discipline their member pilots. ALPA insisted that pilots be able to delete footage at the end of routine flights. It was common practice for the captain to ask the co-pilot "nothing unusual on that flight?"
As soon as the co-pilot confirmed "nothing unusual" the captain would hit the delete button.



Sounds about right.

I think the only disabling that would be sensible would be pre-planned with a paper trail, never after the fact
cavete terrae.

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>1 hour of gopro video at 1080(30fps) is 9.1 gigabytes. Say your department has
>50 officers on duty at a time working 12 hour shifts. Thats 10920 gigabytes to
>store per day.. or 3985.8 terabytes per year times backups. Anyone care to guess
>the cost per terabyte for commercial storage? Your looking at a minimum 6 figures
>for this department using rented space online, and more for your own physical
>hardware not including start up costs, energy costs, cooling costs, personnel, and
>hardware replacement.

Ah. So dash cams are impossible to use, and no police force uses them.

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They do but they are

-pretty low quality
-only turn on when the emergency lights are turned or 10 sec before a detected crash(stays in loop mode while off)
-able to be accessed by officers
-only point one direction
-require external mics for when officer exits cars
-hassle to download.
-costly

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They do but they are

-pretty low quality
-only turn on when the emergency lights are turned or 10 sec before a detected crash(stays in loop mode while off)
-able to be accessed by officers
-only point one direction
-require external mics for when officer exits cars
-hassle to download.
-costly



And yet even with all those drawbacks they have been quite useful to law enforcement. Imagine how replacing them with modern dashcams would improve things.

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normiss

Maybe they could back off of the military type gear they buy?
It's gotta be cheaper than the lawsuits.


............................................................................

Congratulations!
You hit the nail on the head.
When cameras cost less than lawyers, then cameras will dominate.

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Including, apparently, you.



If having 25+ years of experience, all on the operational side of the house, doesn't qualify me to comment on issues involving things I deal with on a daily basis. Well...........

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

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I wear a camera (when it works) for my protection. A couple times when people wanted to complain, all I had to do was say "well, let's go look at the video". The tone changed and so did their story.

But then again, I'm no expert, I defer to the keyboard warriors and armchair generals of the message boards.......
Oh, and Facebook.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

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skycop

I wear a camera (when it works) for my protection.



And thats the point. You are essentially saying they should only be used where it suits the police. Given recent events, a lot of people believe that it could serve the dual purpose of holding the police accountable for their actions. You seem to have a problem with that, which is a concern.

Quote

But then again, I'm no expert, I defer to the keyboard warriors and armchair generals of the message boards.......
Oh, and Facebook.



SIUCC. If you don't like other peoples opinions, you are entitled not to read them. No-one is forcing you to come here. If you feel they aren't entitled to them, then you are part of the problem.
Never try to eat more than you can lift

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No I have it on during most calls, it comes down to practicality and using the recording space wisely.
I know it drives the foil hat and OWS crowd nuts, but I have to realistically set expectations for it's use.
I've been doing this since FAX machines were new, the technology will catch up to make the process easier and more cost effective.
I'm human, it recorded me getting pissed off after a drunk, high, off her medication 200lb lesbian kicked me in the nuts.
Sooo............once it's recorded, it is what it is.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

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skycop


I'm human, it recorded me getting pissed off after a drunk, high, off her medication 200lb lesbian kicked me in the nuts.
Sooo............once it's recorded, it is what it is.



True. And if you had shot her, quite rightly you would have been held to account for it, which is where the inability to censor it is important.
I don't disagree with most of the rest of your post, apart from to say that the technology is pretty much already there - one less armored car buys a lot of cameras and storage. The delay will be in the procurement and deployment process.
Never try to eat more than you can lift

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SIUCC. If you don't like other peoples opinions, you are entitled not to read them. No-one is forcing you to come here. If you feel they aren't entitled to them, then you are part of the problem.



I just point out facts and call people when they are factually incorrect. Doesn't mean I don't value their opinion.
Just because you make a lot of noise, doesn't make you right.

There was a rule I learned a long time ago:

20% of the population doesn't care much for the police or authority in general. That's an American thing, and I'm good with that. A small portion of this group is very vocal.

20% of the population will pretty much back up the police not matter what. This is the law and order crowd, I'm good with them too.

60% of the population are decent people who will make a reasonable informed decision given a set of facts regarding authority and law.

The 60% are the majority of the jury pool, those are the people I think of most when I take action, even if that action may be controversial.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

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Oh, and FWIW, I really rate what the police do. Its a tough job and it always annoys me when some posters here get all self righteous about thanking troops, and in the same breath attack any policemen who are doing a job that can be very dangerous, pretty much thankless and difficult. Some of the best people I ever met have been policemen (and some other people here will be well aware of one of the people I am referring to).

That said - there are a number of "bad eggs" who bring the whole profession into disrepute, and with something this important, any tool to increase the accountability has to be good. And where there has been wrongdoing, those officers need to be punished.

That said, the flipside is there needs to be a recognition that a snap decision made in the heat of a bad situation is very hard, and that officers who made honest choices shouldn't necessarily be punished for them - on a case by case basis.
Never try to eat more than you can lift

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>If having 25+ years of experience, all on the operational side of the house,
>doesn't qualify me to comment on issues involving things I deal with on a daily
>basis.

Just like having 25 years experience designing the sort of equipment you claim to be an expert on doesn't qualify me to comment on it. I guess you are as unqualified as I am.

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I never said you were unqualified, never said I was an expert in the technology. I've used the technology for several years and it has limitations, it's not the cure all the anti-police crowd thinks it is. I use one, I like it.

There are lapel cam videos of shootings, one was used recently to clear an officer in a lawsuit. BUT, people will see what they want to see. There is a video of a kid with a knife, the officer tells the kid to drop it several times, he doesn't and it's easy to figure out the result. The "activist" crowd still calls the officer a murderer etc.......

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

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Ask Marcus Lutrell what second guessing to do because of what the media would say did for him and his guys.



That liberal media made us die bullshit has always made me mad. How about you do the right, and legal thing regardless of who's watching?

- Dan G

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