Video cameras on beat cops?

[riggerrob 558]

skycop

Can't be friends with everybody, some of them lack integrity, use very shady tactics, or just plain idealougues that can't be reasoned with. I do feel sorry for the PD's especially the young ones, they are overworked and very underpaid.

The ones I don't like are very few in number and they are treated professionally.

.............................................................................

Insightful analysis of human nature.

[skycop 0]

Quote

just plain idealougues that can't be reasoned with

Defense: We are here for a suppression hearing your honor

Judge: What are the facts

Defense: My client was charged with possession of cocaine, we want to suppress the search

Judge: Officer?

Me: Your honor, the defendant (adult) was stopped walking on the highway with two juveniles who were intoxicated, he was not charged with giving them alcohol because he was cooperative and had outstanding warrants. After he was searched, but before he went into the jail he was asked if he had anything on him where I couldn't find it, because the jail will and it's an additional felony. The suspect then told me he had a baggie of cocaine in his rectum, he was searched by the jailers after being brought in, there was a baggie of cocaine in his rectum. Since he told me when asked, I did not charge him with the additional felony, just the possession.

Welcome to my world, the attorney was actually pissed because it wasn't suppressed. I didn't know the attorney, but if anything is cut and dried, it was this.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[riggerrob 558]

That sort of legal bafflegab is why the general public has lost respect for the legal system in general.
When courts no longer speak a language - that a university-educated citizen can understand - then they disconnect from civil society. After that disconnect the courts become day-care centres for over-paid lawyers.

[normiss 620]

Even better....I know another local criminal defense attorney that play acted his way up to the court date, only to assist the DA in cornering a plea.
Yea, he's a judge now.
He was dirty then, he's more so now.

This game is played on all sides.
Sometimes it's personal, most times to to make sure the game continues to exist.

[lawrocket 3]

Indeed. Kinda weird that it makes the presumption that if a person ran she was not a criminal...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 0]

skycop

Quote

just plain idealougues that can't be reasoned with

Defense: We are here for a suppression hearing your honor

Judge: What are the facts

Defense: My client was charged with possession of cocaine, we want to suppress the search

Judge: Officer?

Me: Your honor, the defendant (adult) was stopped walking on the highway with two juveniles who were intoxicated, he was not charged with giving them alcohol because he was cooperative and had outstanding warrants. After he was searched, but before he went into the jail he was asked if he had anything on him where I couldn't find it, because the jail will and it's an additional felony. The suspect then told me he had a baggie of cocaine in his rectum, he was searched by the jailers after being brought in, there was a baggie of cocaine in his rectum. Since he told me when asked, I did not charge him with the additional felony, just the possession.

Welcome to my world, the attorney was actually pissed because it wasn't suppressed. I didn't know the attorney, but if anything is cut and dried, it was this.

True Story #1 -

One of the rare times I experienced a judge actually rejecting the credibility of a cop in a suppression motion. (I've actually experienced essentially this scenario many times, but usually the judge just rubber-stamps the cop's testimony and denies the suppression motion).

Client (who is black), charged with possession of coke, to me, in private interview: I had a tiny bag of coke on me, hidden inside my underpants. I was walking to my friend Jesus's house to share it with him. It's a bad neighborhood, but all I was doing was walking. Shortly after I crossed into his [predominantly Hispanic] neighborhood, the cop rolled up on me and asked me what I was doing there. I said "just visiting a friend". He put me up against his car and searched me. He found the coke in my underwear, and arrested me.

In Court, during evidence suppression hearing:

Officer: Your Honor, it's a bad neighborhood, known for lots of drug traffic and other crime. It was nighttime. As the Defendant walked past my squad car, I could see he was holding something in his hand. He then held it up above his head and examined it in the light of the streetlight, where I could see it in plain view. I could see it was a clear glassine packet containing a white powdered substance. He then looked at me, dropped it on the ground, and walked away rapidly. I retrieved the packet from the ground and placed him in custody.
[answering my questions on cross]: Yes, that neighborhood is almost exclusively Hispanic. Yes, I acknowledge that your client is a black man. Yes, it's a known drug area, and we execute numerous narcotics arrests on that street every night.

Me, to judge, on oral argument: Your Honor, you've been doing this a long time, and you know how it goes down in the street. Do you really believe an adult black man, at night, out in the street in a high-drug, high-crime Hispanic neighborhood, would openly hold a packet of cocaine up above his head to the light, for all the world to see, in a neighborhood where if he actually did that, he'd almost certainly get robbed or arrested?

Judge: Frankly, I have a real problem believing that. Motion to suppress granted. [Thus forcing the prosecution to drop the case for lack of admissible evidence.]

--------------------------------

True story #2 (actually, this has happened more times than I can count):

Me, interviewing client: You're charged with dealing drugs out of your apartment. It says here in the police report and evidence receipts that the police seized $1,800 cash from your apartment.

Client: Yeah, right.

Me: So that's not true?

Client: Yeah, they found the money. It was closer to $12,000. I think you know what happened to the rest of it.

[ryoder 1,381]

NYPD to begin pilot program: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/05/nyregion/new-york-police-officers-to-begin-wearing-body-cameras-in-pilot-program.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[aphid 0]

ryoder

NYPD to begin pilot program: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/05/nyregion/new-york-police-officers-to-begin-wearing-body-cameras-in-pilot-program.html

And this from Toronto:

Deputy Chief Peter Sloly said other forces that have used the cameras, both in trials and as a regular part of police equipment, have found they reduce both complaints against police and the use of force by front-line officers.

"It will assist in modifying the officers' behaviour, that's why the complaints go down and that's why we consider it a worthwhile investment."

Not everybody is happy about it though:

But Mike McCormack, head of the Toronto Police Association, said the union has serious concerns about how the technology will be used.

McCormack said officers are also concerned about the privacy issues and the cost.

(source - http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/09/23/police-cameras-toronto_n_5867064.html)

[matthewcline 0]

Not only does it "modify the behavior" of the Cops, but of the people as well.

There have been a few cases of Police Brutality reversed when the Body Camera, and or Dash cam has shown the truth.

I may have missed the post in this thread where LAPD has a District using the cameras as an experiment, it has reduced the reports of brutality by a significant margin. Also, the test program has shown that in reports that have gone forward, nearly 80% (iirc) have been unfounded.

I have a contour and a smaller body cam that I try to use when not on the dash cam. And I always use an audio recorder to back up, the car's recorder. And I tell every one I interact with, "Remember, everything is recorded these days".

I find it amazing how nice people get when they know they are being recorded (cuts both ways, yes it does), and only the truly committed to their cause keep on with what ever action they had going on.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[cvfd1399 0]

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Also, the test program has shown that in reports that have gone forward, nearly 80% (iirc) have been unfounded

In before those people pop this one at ya "THATS BECAUSE THE BEAT COPS FRIENDS ARE THE ONES INVESTIGATING DUHH "

[billvon 2,384]

>"THATS BECAUSE THE BEAT COPS FRIENDS ARE THE ONES INVESTIGATING DUHH"

A video is a great way to prove such people wrong.

[matthewcline 0]

Like the event involving a firefighter who claimed racism in a recent encounter. The PD said he was making a false claim, and to back it up, let the public view and decide as well.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

McCormack said officers are also concerned about the privacy issues and the cost.

I think MIke is only really concerned about the cost. Have to make sure there is enough money to keep the salaries in the astronomical range.

A cop in Ontario makes an insane amount of money.

[normiss 620]

I've recently discovered we have a pretty large number of city cops making over $100,000.
While collecting a pension from their previous $100,000 police job.

[riggerrob 558]

Cameras are less expensive than lawyers.
More cameras equals fewer arguments in court.
Fewer arguments in court means fewer lawyers.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Cops don't like less court time. They wan't more court time. Easy money for them.

[riggerrob 558]

SkyDekker

Cops don't like less court time. They want more court time. Easy money for them.

....................................................................

Yes, waiting around a court-house is much easier duty than walking a beat.
However, police chiefs much prefer camera evidence, because bad guys are more likely to plead guilty if you have video evidence of their bad behaviour.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Within roughly 4 years a Toronto cop makes a base salary of over $90,000 a year, with full benefits and a full indexed pension.

Couple of paid duty shifts and some overtime and a police constable is making north of $100,000 a year.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Last year we had three parking enforcement officers and one police cadet in training make more than $100,000 a year.

More than 40% of the entire police force, including civilian members, make more than $100,000 a year.

Insane. Also makes it clear why the boys in blue like to protect eachother so much.

[lawrocket 3]

[Quote]There have been a few cases of Police Brutality reversed when the Body Camera, and or Dash cam has shown the truth.

Right. It's evidence. Police collect evidence. Not only evidence of the alleged crime but evidence of probable cause and even evidencce of reasonable suspicion.

When an officer takes a stand against an evidentiary tool it causes some GREAT apprehension on my part. I ask why that cop would not want there to be an additional evidentiary tool? Police use recordings all the time when interacting with people: for example, in an interrogation room where there is tight control over the environment.

To me the cameras are a double-edged sword for police. On the one hand, it's good for police because, as the good Matt has indicated, the public behaves differently when on tape and video/audio are useful in simply preventing bogus allegations against police.

The flip side is that policing becomes more difficult because it similarly prevents bogus allegations by police. When the audio reveals a cop saying that a driver is slurring his speech when he isn't, or video shows that a driver stumbled out a car when he didn't, it makes that arrest more difficult to justify.

Because there is evidence that would not otherwise have existed.

Indeed, I cannot help but find a correlation between the explosion of video online and growing mistrust of police. Brandeis wrote "It is said that sunlight is the best disinfectant."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

We have what is called "the sunshine list" in Toronto. Lists every public employee who made more than $100,000.

Stupid money for a constable.