D22369 0 #176 September 6, 2014 an auto pistol are notoriously hard to keep on target - handing one to an understrength child with a full mag was a really poor decision that cost him his life and scarred a child for life me and my son got a chance to shoot an antique sten when we were in Arizona visiting a friend - my son started out with a mag on single shot then on auto with a mag loaded with 3 then 5 then nearly full mag - gave him time to get used to the recoil so he didn't end up off target and it was not an automatic pistol by any means - he had fun and demonstrated amazing accuracy with it - that 50 year old wpn fired like it was brand new even though the looks of it ... wow, it was definatly not a polished unit. https://www.google.com/search?q=sten+gun&biw=1128&bih=575&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=HGcLVPb8NKXHigLA9IDgAg&ved=0CCwQsAQ Roy They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #177 September 7, 2014 doorgirl ******>At best they are rights granted by the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution, Well, no. The 2nd amendment doesn't say that Americans are given the right to own guns. It says that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. The Constitution operates on the principle that you have every right imaginable; the Constitution (and by extension the government) can only remove them. The Second Amendment says that that's one right you can't remove. That, for example, is why BASE jumping is legal anywhere it's not prohibited, as opposed to the opposite. Hence my the use of the phrase, "at best" and in a prior post the word "debatable." While the US Constitution does imply the notion of "that which is not expressly forbidden is allowed." That doesn't mean it grants all rights to all humans unless there is specific verbiage to the contrary. For instance, not being a slave. I would say that not being a slave is a pretty basic human right and ranks much higher than "gun owner." Yet, it was only through legal actions that the right to "not be a slave" came to be. While it's all fine, high and mighty to claim the US allows "that which is not expressly forbidden is allowed." The TRUTH is some very basic human rights do NOT exist in any country without them first being written down. The notion of "that which is not expressly forbidden is allowed" isn't implied, it is explicitly stated. The ninth amendment states "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." The tenth amendment states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Just because the federal government is running roughshod all over the states and the people, at least as far as the restrictions written into the Constitution, does not make it OK. ... And as to the several statements about why the amendments are needed... Have you ever sat down with a team to write something, and perhaps realized after you were finished and people were reading it that some of your points weren't as clear as you intended? Did you ever put out an addition or revision to clarify key points? The Bill of Rights immediately followed the Constitution for that reason. Of course it took less than a generation for people in power to start maneuvering for more power, and sadly many Americans are as misinformed about the intended style of governance as our international friends here. Those of us who can look in our family tree to relatives that escaped extermination by chance know that privately held guns, both in the sense of individuals and unregistered guns, are the best way to keep at bay other monsters who may wish to wipe us or others out in the future. If higher gun deaths vs other countries was actually a good metric, I would view some level of increased gun death as a maintenance payment to prevent a potential future genocide. But how comparable are gun deaths rates as a comparison of the risk/benefit of privately held firearms? In the US, home invasions are very rare however in the UK the rate is terribly high. Having guns "out there" in the US makes bad guys and gals choose to wait til we aren't home to rob us rather than tie us up and do whatever when they rob us. What of other violent death rates? It has been a while since I looked up the numbers, but they are not so compelling. Does a murder victim care if they are shot, stabbed, or bludgeoned to death? Well, probably yes. I would have to guess that I would prefer to be shot and killed than beaten, stabbed, strangled, burned, killed through sodomization, stoned, or many of the other ways to kill someone without a gun. And as a member of the weaker sex, I would also like to have a tool that equalizes strength differences to protect myself from lethal or life altering attack. So yeah, those of you in other countries I would appreciate it if you could just sit back and enjoy the show rather than trying to interfere in our political fights. Check out these resources if you want to learn, and help us poor Americans by letting people vote with their feet to move to your country rather than changing us. And those of you in the US who believe in gun control because you think it will make people safer, I would ask that you poke around on the Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership site for a bit to learn of both the racist history (and present) of gun control in the US and it's other influences. The jfpo.org website has some great resources. Nice post. I'd like to buy you a beer "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #178 September 8, 2014 Drugs flow Northwards across the Mexican border while guns flow Southwards. The reverse happens across the Canada/USA border. The only difference is that Canadian drug dealers are better shots and (most of the time) only shoot other Canadian drug-dealers. Canadian police merely lean back and keep score. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #179 September 8, 2014 Agreed Fully-automatic pistols never became fashionable because even the biggest and toughest infantrymen could not hit the target consistently. Uzis are better because they are more likely to put three bullets on the target. Stens are better (for kids) because they are longer and more muzzle-heavy, making them easier to keep on target. Bipod-mounted medium machine guns even better because kids lack the muscle to turn them away from Down-range. Finally, tripods are best because you can weld arc-of-fire limits in to the tripod. In the end, the type of mount does not matter, because the next time I see "kid" and "automatic weapon " on the same range, I will run away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #180 September 8, 2014 rushmc ******You guys are gonna have to pry my gun off from my cold dead hand. It is god given right. U.S. Constitution says so. ............................................................................. God did not write the American Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Both those documents were written by long-dead white men. They wrote both those documents for a vastly different country than the modern USA. That was long before the industrial revolution, long before steam locomotives, long before breach-loading fire-arms, long before magazine-fed rifles, long before machine guns. Back then the worst drug dealers imported tea without the appropriate tax stamps. Back then some of the authors of the Constitution and BOR investing in tea importation business. Their primary motivation was to arm local militias to prevent British soldiers from meddling in the tea trade .... tax stamps or no tax stamps. By that logic the American Constitution and BOR were both written by out-law drug dealers who wanted to entrench their "God-given right" to arm their gang members against the British government's tax-enforcement officers. B You really need to read the Federalist Papers...... ..................................................................... I don't have time to read the Hansard. When am I going to find time to read the Federalist Papers ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #181 September 8, 2014 Sorry, but I was under the impression that the primary goal of these forums was to reach consensus on best-business-practices. We try to learn from other peoples' mistakes. We dissect trails on mistakes leading to their accidents in our efforts to avoid injuring ourselves. Sure we use dark humour and schadenfreude smuggness to distance our egos from their stupidity. At the end of every debate we delight in telling ourselves "I am too smart to repeat his mistake." For example, reading USPA Accident, Incident and Malfunction reports has cured me of a few bad habits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #182 September 8, 2014 riggerrobSorry, but I was under the impression that the primary goal of these forums was to reach consensus on ........... Sorry, while laughing, I might have shot a little bit of soda out of my nose...... please, please,, continue.... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BartsDaddy 4 #183 September 8, 2014 rehmwa***Sorry, but I was under the impression that the primary goal of these forums was to reach consensus on ........... Sorry, while laughing, I might have shot a little bit of soda out of my nose...... please, please,, continue.... Yea I laughed at that too. Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #184 September 9, 2014 Consensus...consensus... Funny word. What does it mean? I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #185 September 10, 2014 davjohns Consensus...consensus... Funny word. What does it mean? I'd explain my understanding of it, but you wouldn't agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #186 September 10, 2014 davjohns Consensus...consensus... Funny word. What does it mean? .................................. We discuss a subject until we agree on a course of action or best business practice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #187 September 10, 2014 riggerrob ***Consensus...consensus... Funny word. What does it mean? .................................. We discuss a subject until we agree on a course of action or best business practice. I think about only half of the people here would agree.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #188 September 10, 2014 turtlespeed ******Consensus...consensus... Funny word. What does it mean? .................................. We discuss a subject until we agree on a course of action or best business practice. I think about only half of the people here would agree. ............................ Yes, I know that some people come here to enjoy rousing debates. They don't really care which side they are on as long as they can enjoy a rollicking debate. Some of them would even take Hitler's side if thought it would make for a more amusing debate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #189 September 10, 2014 riggerrob *********Consensus...consensus... Funny word. What does it mean? .................................. We discuss a subject until we agree on a course of action or best business practice. I think about only half of the people here would agree. ............................ Yes, I know that some people come here to enjoy rousing debates. They don't really care which side they are on as long as they can enjoy a rollicking debate. Some of them would even take Hitler's side if thought it would make for a more amusing debate. That's just the foreigners that do that.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #190 September 10, 2014 turtlespeed ************Consensus...consensus... Funny word. What does it mean? .................................. We discuss a subject until we agree on a course of action or best business practice. I think about only half of the people here would agree. ............................ Yes, I know that some people come here to enjoy rousing debates. They don't really care which side they are on as long as they can enjoy a rollicking debate. Some of them would even take Hitler's side if thought it would make for a more amusing debate. That's just the foreigners that do that........................................... Do you mean furners like Hitler? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #191 September 10, 2014 riggerrob ***************Consensus...consensus... Funny word. What does it mean? .................................. We discuss a subject until we agree on a course of action or best business practice. I think about only half of the people here would agree. ............................ Yes, I know that some people come here to enjoy rousing debates. They don't really care which side they are on as long as they can enjoy a rollicking debate. Some of them would even take Hitler's side if thought it would make for a more amusing debate. That's just the foreigners that do that........................................... Do you mean furners like Hitler? Hilter?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #192 September 11, 2014 riggerrob ***Consensus...consensus... Funny word. What does it mean? .................................. We discuss a subject until we agree on a course of action or best business practice. Where's the step where some people start insulting the intelligence of other people for the crime of not agreeing with the name caller's opinion? I'm pretty sure it's mandatory. At least, my observations of normal conduct herein suggests it is mandatory.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #193 September 11, 2014 QuoteWhere's the step where some people start insulting the intelligence of other people for the crime of not agreeing with the name caller's opinion? I'm pretty sure it's mandatory. At least, my observations of normal conduct herein suggests it is mandatory. Only a dumb bastard like you would think that! See? Now were having a debate. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #194 September 11, 2014 >See? Now were having a debate. Oh, you came here for debate? Sorry, this is abuse. Debate is down the hall. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #195 September 11, 2014 No it isn't! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgriff 0 #196 September 11, 2014 billvon>See? Now were having a debate. Oh, you came here for debate? Sorry, this is abuse. Debate is down the hall. Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, malodorous, pervert!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #197 September 11, 2014 Before you can hope to reach a consensus on what to do in response to something, you have to first agree what that something actually is, you have to agree on what the options are, and then you have to agree on what the pros and cons (and to a first order how good and bad the pros and cons are respectively.) Then you can actually choose something and have a meaningful debate with someone who might choose something different. Around here we're lucky to agree on a problem statement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #198 September 11, 2014 champu Around here we're lucky to agree on a problem statement. You mean opportunity communication. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #199 September 11, 2014 Hi Dan, Quote Now were having a debate. Some people are so stupid, they will never learn how to spell. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #200 September 11, 2014 Bolas *** Around here we're lucky to agree on a problem statement. You mean opportunity communication. Oh jeebus - please tell me thats not the latest in business wank speak. haven't come across that one yet.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
