JackC1 0 #201 August 7, 2014 maadmax QuoteMaybe you should have paid more attention to your passion. Then you'd recognize the pseudo-science mumbo-jumbo in the video you posted. Other than the ending, which I know offends your delicate sensibilities, please point out the mumbo jumbo. You have my complete attention. Otherwise you are just flapping in the wind. ... You can start by looking up what an observation is in QM. The single biggest reoccurring problem with people who try to learn physics from youtube is they think they understand when in actual fact, they've got the whole thing so arse about tit that attempting to explain why they are mistaken is such a mammoth task, it is virtually impossible to do short of teaching them a full undergraduate physics course. If you want to learn QM you need to do QM, calculus and all. It absolutely cannot be done any other way. Start with this: http://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Physics-Mircea-S-Rogalski/dp/905699185X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407443788&sr=8-1&keywords=quantum+physics+rogalski+palmer But first, you will need to make sure you are comfortable with the contents of this: http://www.amazon.com/Mathematical-Methods-Physical-Sciences-Mary/dp/0471198269/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407443858&sr=8-1&keywords=mathematics+for+physicists+boas Or if you must watch videos, watch these: http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-04-quantum-physics-i-spring-2013/other/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #202 August 7, 2014 RonD1120 *** " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_questionBegging the Question." aka Petito Pricipi, is a version of circular logic. The expression almost always misused. BSBD. Winsor ??? See snip attached. Hey! I found a new toy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_fucking_question I'm so easily amused. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #203 August 7, 2014 QuoteTheology - not one shred of evidence in support of any of its tenets. Is it possible you don't see the evidence? (Perhaps I am wrong in assuming that you do not believe in the existence of some superior being. ) This guy did. "My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind." Albert Einstein"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #204 August 7, 2014 Croc QuoteTheology - not one shred of evidence in support of any of its tenets. Is it possible you don't see the evidence? (Perhaps I am wrong in assuming that you do not believe in the existence of some superior being. ) This guy did. "My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind." Albert Einstein Einstein was an agnostic and thought that belief in a god such as in Christianity was a human weakness. "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text." and "I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." Quotes from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Albert_Einstein (edited to fix quote tags)Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #205 August 7, 2014 Croc"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind." Albert Einstein Has it not occurred to you that Einstein was speaking metaphorically about a god rather than metaphysically about THE God? Let's make one thing clear, Einstein absolutely did NOT believe in a god as described in Genesis.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #206 August 7, 2014 StumpyEinstein was an agnostic and thought that belief in a god such as in Christianity was a human weakness. And almost certainly what we previously described as a "social agnostic" at that.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #207 August 7, 2014 Who said anything about the God in Genesis? Can you not imagine some other supreme being? "Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #208 August 7, 2014 Who said anything about a personal god?"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #209 August 7, 2014 Croc Who said anything about the God in Genesis? Can you not imagine some other supreme being? I can imagine quite a bit. I have, at times, been paid to do so. In that world we generally call it fiction and realize it is a district and separate thing from reality.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,394 #210 August 7, 2014 >Can you not imagine some other supreme being? There are a lot of supreme beings I can imagine! Some have higher odds than others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #211 August 7, 2014 It is the word "God" that is preventing us from communicating. Everyone thinks he knows what "God" is. I am suggesting that we haven't a clue what God is. Entirely beyond "our frail and feeble mind(s)". Imagination is required to conceive of such a God, even for the sake of speculation."Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #212 August 8, 2014 CrocIt is the word "God" that is preventing us from communicating. Everyone thinks he knows what "God" is. I am suggesting that we haven't a clue what God is. Entirely beyond "our frail and feeble mind(s)". Imagination is required to conceive of such a God, even for the sake of speculation. I read what you're saying, but it also sounds an awful lot like what dead end hold out nine-year-olds believe about Santa. They've been able to see the data that Santa simply isn't possible, but continue to use their "imagination" in order to continue justifying their "belief." Once a person grows up to be an adult and realizes Santa and his trip are physically impossible, they're able to let go of this "imaginary being." Just like Santa, I have no issue with the concept of God as a metaphor. However, as a metaphysical being who created the universe, "He" simply has no place in objective reality. I am not confused about the use of the word. There is nothing preventing us from communicating. "He" simply isn't required for the universe to exist.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #213 August 8, 2014 QuoteI am not confused about the use of the word. There is nothing preventing us from communicating. "He" simply isn't required for the universe to exist. Sorry I don't buy it. Those of you who smugly claim to know what it takes for the universe to exist in reality don't have a clue. The visible universe is composed of a sea of subatomic particles and forces of unimaginable complexity and the two have not been even remotely reconciled. Which of course is the message in the OP, if you cared to watch it. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,394 #214 August 8, 2014 > The visible universe is composed of a sea of subatomic particles and forces of > unimaginable complexity and the two have not been even remotely reconciled. A great many have been reconciled quite well, which is why we can do things like build nuclear reactors, see planets many light-years away and even build the hard drive you are storing your words on. If you put God in the places we do not yet understand, his home will be eroded away quite steadily. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderbow 1 #215 August 8, 2014 QuoteA great many have been reconciled quite well, Are there any which can be said to have been reconciled completely?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lord, let me be the person my dog thinks I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #216 August 8, 2014 ThunderbowQuoteA great many have been reconciled quite well, Are there any which can be said to have been reconciled completely? Yeah, you got 'im on the run now. The logical extension of what you impliedly suggest is: all gaps in complete knowledge can be filled-in quite nicely with God. The logical extension of that is: ignorance = God. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #217 August 8, 2014 Quote If you want to learn QM you need to do QM, calculus and all. It absolutely cannot be done any other way. Start with this: http://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Physics-Mircea-S-Rogalski/dp/905699185X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407443788&sr=8-1&keywords=quantum+physics+rogalski+palmer But first, you will need to make sure you are comfortable with the contents of this: http://www.amazon.com/Mathematical-Methods-Physical-Sciences-Mary/dp/0471198269/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407443858&sr=8-1&keywords=mathematics+for+physicists+boas Or if you must watch videos, watch these: http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-04-quantum-physics-i-spring-2013/other/ Thanks for the links, I will definitely check them out. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #218 August 8, 2014 QuoteA great many have been reconciled quite well, which is why we can do things like build nuclear reactors, see planets many light-years away and even build the hard drive you are storing your words on. If you put God in the places we do not yet understand, his home will be eroded away quite steadily. We have been manipulating the macro elements of our reality on varying levels since the dawn of our species. Claiming to have reality figured out in view of what little we know about combining the macro and quantum mechanic models, is wrong. How do you account for "Idealism" in your construction of reality? ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,394 #219 August 8, 2014 > Claiming to have reality figured out in view of what little we know about combining >the macro and quantum mechanic models, is wrong. As I mentioned we have figured out a great deal. If we didn't understand quantum mechanics and how it relates to the macro world, your hard drive wouldn't work. >How do you account for "Idealism" in your construction of reality? The same way you account for the charge of an electron in Numbers 3:12 in your construction of reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #220 August 8, 2014 What happened before the Big Bang?"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #221 August 8, 2014 CrocWhat happened before the Big Bang? Space, and time were created with the Big Bang. So there is no before it.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #222 August 8, 2014 CrocWhat happened before the Big Bang? The gib gnab. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #223 August 8, 2014 Now I can die. Thank you."Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #224 August 8, 2014 I'm pretty sure it's "gnab gib"."Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #225 August 8, 2014 CrocWhat happened before the Big Bang? A fair question. However, one that doesn't prove the existence of God. Let's just turn it around shall we? Who made God so he could make the universe? See how that works?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
