jgoose71 0 #76 July 21, 2014 GeorgiaDon *** Quote There are many boiling hot spots around the world right now, IMO. Things can easily get out of hand, with significant repercussions to our way of life..... Good thing we have strong Presidential leadership No doubt you'd prefer someone more like Putin. Don I think he was thinking more along the lines or Reagan or Bush. But if you would prefer a Putin or Chairman Mao, hey, what ever floats your boat..."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #77 July 21, 2014 jgoose71 ****** Quote There are many boiling hot spots around the world right now, IMO. Things can easily get out of hand, with significant repercussions to our way of life..... Good thing we have strong Presidential leadership No doubt you'd prefer someone more like Putin. Don I think he was thinking more along the lines or Reagan or Bush. But if you would prefer a Putin or Chairman Mao, hey, what ever floats your boat...Ronnie Raygun could not get elected in the GOP of today... and Bush and friends would not go there... not enough oil to destabilize the world oil markets for. This might give a wee bit of a hint of why Comrade Put In wants Eastern Ukraine... http://ukrainetrek.com/about-ukraine-nature/ukraine-natural-resources ALWAYS follow the money.. the people with your puppet strings firmly in hand always do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #78 July 22, 2014 Amazon ********* Quote There are many boiling hot spots around the world right now, IMO. Things can easily get out of hand, with significant repercussions to our way of life..... Good thing we have strong Presidential leadership No doubt you'd prefer someone more like Putin. Don I think he was thinking more along the lines or Reagan or Bush. But if you would prefer a Putin or Chairman Mao, hey, what ever floats your boat...Ronnie Raygun could not get elected in the GOP of today... and Bush and friends would not go there... not enough oil to destabilize the world oil markets for. This might give a wee bit of a hint of why Comrade Put In wants Eastern Ukraine... http://ukrainetrek.com/about-ukraine-nature/ukraine-natural-resources ALWAYS follow the money.. the people with your puppet strings firmly in hand always do. I can't believe that Ronnie was at his ranch for a 25 day vacation when KAL 007 was shot down, he didn't want to leave. His aid's finally convinced him leave 4 days later on a Friday instead of his scheduled departure on Monday. What did Ronnie say in his memoirs: "It was heartbreaking to leave early, I was really looking forward to those last three days" Is there a difference between these 2 flights? Over 50 Americans, including a sitting Congressmen were killed on 007, a flight that originated in the US. The RR myth is absolutely astounding. Where was Ronnie when the Iranian passenger jet was accidentally shot down? You guessed it, but this time he stayed put. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigBUG 0 #79 July 29, 2014 Russian here. I do not know if you guys (and your governments) understand it or not, but harsh sanctions only making Putin stronger. Actions os USA and EU, who punished Russia without showing some real proofs of either missile launch or weapon supply (link to 'social media' is just hilarious, don't you think so?) only making the image of Westrn World as an enemy of Russia stronger. Another thing is that sanctions and change of world' perception of Putin made him absolutly non-cooperable. He could not give up his post - that will be end of him. He could not look forward for safe life after retirement, with the money he have in Western banks. The only hope for him - keep pressing on, no matter what. Every card he have will be used, and there are really very few of them left - and one is ultra-nationalism and ksenophobia, and they already reached dangerous levels and growing. New world war seems not so unrealistic now. To prevent innecessary flame, some points - I don not support Putin - I do not support Ukraininans either, they use so much of neo-Nazi force, and I still remember that that part of my family (I am a half-jew) was killed in Lvov during WWII not by Germans, but by their Ukranian neighboors - We still do not know real facts about the plane. Rebeld had a BUK AA, but only the missile vehicle. You could fire from teh vehicle alone, without a command vehicle and radar control (there is addidtional radar on the vehicle itself), but you have very narrow window where you could detect a target and make a launch. You need to know exactly what bearing and angle you need to look at _before_ target wil enter the controlled airspace. My personal bet is that plane was blasted by rebels, but they probably recieve a decieveng information from Ukranian side, probably telling that there will be a supply cargo plane. They knew the altitude, bearing and time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #80 July 29, 2014 Of course our leadership knows that sanctions strengthen Putin and weaken everyone else. In fact, our President has been explicit in talking about sanctions targeting Putin's friends but not him. I'm becoming more and more disappointed in the ever-increasing tactics of polarization - both home and abroad - being utilized by the leadership of the government. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #81 July 30, 2014 BigBUGMy personal bet is that plane was blasted by rebels, but they probably recieve a decieveng information from Ukranian side, probably telling that there will be a supply cargo plane. They knew the altitude, bearing and time. Stupid question: If it was a Ukranian cargo plane at that altitude, heading, and location... To where would it have been bringing cargo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigBUG 0 #82 July 30, 2014 I have no idea, frankly. actually the more information we getting, the more it confusing. If rebels wanted to put down this (or any) plane with this particular vehicle, they need to solve some pure technical problems, which requires a very very good team of technicians and military specialists - I am not sure there is enough of them in the Russian regular army. first of all, both rebels and Ukranian army said that the vehicle was INOP when rebels took it. You could not fix this stuff in the woods. Usually you'll need a 'donor' vehicle. In the regular army repair like this will take some weeks and requires both technicians and supply - why rebels ever need to do this if Ukranian Air Force does not have any planes flying at these altitudes&speeds? Everything they hit before was downed with light AA missiles, they are way simpler, cheaper and require no special personnel. You'll need a whole trained team. They are not a regular soldiers (and surely not a guerilla fighters), this is a bunch of well-trained ppl who use sophisticated weapon. You could not just gather up a bunch of partisans and fire the missile. You need a radar, period. To really use this missile as a AA countermeasure you need a good radar coverage. Without proper target asquisition from radar station you could not really cover anything - you need to know bearing before attacking plane enters the reach of the unit. So actually there is just does not make any sense to drag this big and gently (and dangerous - missiles DO explode because of inproper handling) vehicle around while fighting ground war. At least, I could not figure out any - if only they knew for sure that one day they'll get some information leak and be able to set up the system before target show up. Just my thoughts, as an engineer and rear Navy leutenant (Artillery and Missile Weapons). I really would like to see one theory which I could belive, but to this moment I didn't see any. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,381 #83 July 30, 2014 >You'll need a whole trained team. They are not a regular soldiers (and surely not a >guerilla fighters), this is a bunch of well-trained ppl who use sophisticated weapon. >You could not just gather up a bunch of partisans and fire the missile. Actually you probably could. There's a pretty good simulator on line that you can download and see if _you_ could launch such a missile. It's not too hard, although without training it's very hard to tell what you are firing at (you just see a raw return on the screen.) https://medium.com/war-is-boring/dont-think-russian-rebels-can-learn-how-to-fire-an-anti-air-missile-try-this-simulator-8dd9e323ed12 >You need a radar, period. The Buk missile system incorporates a radar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 185 #84 July 30, 2014 billvon>You'll need a whole trained team. They are not a regular soldiers (and surely not a >guerilla fighters), this is a bunch of well-trained ppl who use sophisticated weapon. >You could not just gather up a bunch of partisans and fire the missile. Actually you probably could. There's a pretty good simulator on line that you can download and see if _you_ could launch such a missile. It's not too hard, although without training it's very hard to tell what you are firing at (you just see a raw return on the screen.) https://medium.com/war-is-boring/dont-think-russian-rebels-can-learn-how-to-fire-an-anti-air-missile-try-this-simulator-8dd9e323ed12 >You need a radar, period. The Buk missile system incorporates a radar. It would be entertaining to see how the current incarnation of Wild Weasels would fare against the antiaircraft deployed against Ukrainian forces. Even first generation HARMs were impressive, indeed. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #85 July 30, 2014 billvon The Buk missile system incorporates a radar. The Buk was intended to be used with the mobile Phazotron 9S18M / Snow Drift mobile radar vehicle. That vehicle has the IFF technology. But the Buk was also designed with the backup capability to operate autonomously, (but with no IFF ability). Full explanation here: http://aviationweek.com/defense/buk-missile-system-lethal-undiscriminating"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #86 July 31, 2014 Oops! http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/does-this-soldiers-instagram-account-prove-russia-is-covertl "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,046 #87 July 31, 2014 Hi ryoder, Quote Oops! Oopsie is right. Re: "A Russian lawmaker announced plans on Tuesday to ban all soldiers from posting to social media while on active duty." Reminds me of the good old days under Stalin. I'm thinking that Sotkin's next posting will be somewhere in Siberia. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #88 July 31, 2014 JerryBaumchenRe: "A Russian lawmaker announced plans on Tuesday to ban all soldiers from posting to social media while on active duty." Reminds me of the good old days under Stalin. Um, isn't that what the US also does WRT operational security in a lot of cases?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 185 #89 July 31, 2014 quade***Re: "A Russian lawmaker announced plans on Tuesday to ban all soldiers from posting to social media while on active duty." Reminds me of the good old days under Stalin. Um, isn't that what the US also does WRT operational security in a lot of cases? That's totally different. Totally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,046 #90 July 31, 2014 Hi Paul, QuoteUm, isn't that what the US also does WRT operational security in a lot of cases? Just to be fair, you added the words: 'operational security' Yes, I have no problem with bans regarding that aspect. However ( apparently ), this ban is 100%. There is a difference. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arvoitus 1 #91 July 31, 2014 That dude sure loves his own face.Your rights end where my feelings begin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #92 July 31, 2014 But first...let me take a selfie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigBUG 0 #93 August 9, 2014 So - no evidence on the plane yet? BUK missile leaves a cloud of about 500 shrapnel pieces. None found in debris? Really strange to me. I have an impression that no one really cares about the truth. Bodies buried, sanctions and bans applied from both sides, Russians are depicted as a baby-killing warmongers to Western World and Westeners looks like USA-Zionist plot muppets in Russian propaganda and social media. Families broken, Putin is stronger than ever and the society is on the brink on mass insanity. Thank you, Western countries - you played this the worst way possible. Who really cares about the actual killers now? Deal is done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #94 August 9, 2014 BigBUGSo - no evidence on the plane yet? BUK missile leaves a cloud of about 500 shrapnel pieces. None found in debris? Really strange to me. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mh17+shrapnel"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigBUG 0 #95 August 9, 2014 I was talking about pieces itself. They clearly identify not only if it is a GtoA orr AtoA missil, but even if it BUK, BUK-M, S200/300 or another AA system. Ok, I clicked your links. MH17 jet 'downed by missile shrapnel,' says Ukraine Ukraine official: Black box shows missile shrapnel downed Malaysian flight MH17 MH17: Black boxes show shrapnel from rocket caused Malaysia Airlines crash, Ukraine says These were first 3 Seriously? Like, for real - you use this as an argument? Official international investigators says abot 'shrapnel holes' and 'black boxes shows explosion decompression due to shrapnel missile explosion' - I agree with that. But they do not show the projectiles, while there should be enough of them. As I said, this is strange. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #96 August 9, 2014 Is your news media reporting on how your thugs are keeping investigators from the site? About how when they can get there they are limited to just a couple of hours, which are mostly spent picking up the body parts your guys left rotting in the field? Does your news media show you the footage of your Russian stooges removing rings and watches from dead bodies? Going through wallets and removing credit cards? Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigBUG 0 #97 August 10, 2014 You are a perfect example of what I am talking. I was talking about the plane shot down, you bring body thieves to topic. Yes, my media showed them to me and yes, they should be shot right away in the field - but what these bastards have to do with the cause of the catastrophe? FYI, they are not Russians - they are Ukranian locals - this is Ukraine's territorry. To be honest, couple of Russian soldiers did the same with Poland's president plane crash some years ago - they were court martialled afterwards. About investigator clearance - I saw that both sides are accusing other in this. Separatists stated a DMZ over a crash site and Ukranian army start a mortar bombardment - this is one of the examples. Everyone is telling his own story. To make myself clear - I am anti-Putin as it could be. I do not support separatists, I am not a big fan of new neo-nazi Ukraine either. I just sick of media manipulations and have a feeling that we all, Russians and Westerners, made a serious wrong turn some weeks ago, and still press on the throttle on a dead end street. BTW, question - how do you see future? What exactly West trying to achieve and how you see Russia's reaction? What could be done and what never happen, how do you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,381 #99 August 10, 2014 QuoteSo - no evidence on the plane yet? Not yet. Not too many investigators willing to get shot. QuoteI have an impression that no one really cares about the truth. The ICAO, the Netherlands and Malaysian Airways cares a great deal. Not enough to die in the attempt to find the truth, though. QuoteThank you, Western countries - you played this the worst way possible. Right. Putin supplies separatists with antiaircraft missiles, separatists shoot down passenger plane and brag about it - and the west looks bad. Up next - Putin kills kids, Russia blames the Netherlands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 49 #100 August 11, 2014 billvon Quote Right. Putin supplies separatists with antiaircraft missiles, separatists shoot down passenger plane and brag about it - and the west looks bad. Now why does this sound so familiar........? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
