ISIS this is what is really going on in the middle east

[Amazon 7]

quade

***They (Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld) even created their own Office of Special Plans to provide them with the intelligence they wanted to hear.

While I agree with most of what you said, I have evolved on this and do not think GWB actually knew what was going on -- at all -- until very near the end of his Presidency. I think if you really want to know who was in charge of the US during the GWB Presidency, you need look no further than the signatory members of the PNAC who received appointments to powerful positions within it and all coordinated by Cheney. I think GWB was a puppet President in the true sense of the word.

Pretty much. But as long as the family was making money.. he knew better than to ask any questions... so much for that buck stopping somewhere.

[Bolas 5]

Darius11

if your not willing to die then don't send others too.

Considering the unconditional surrenders that have been reported, this could be applicable to the Iraqi forces too.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Darius11 12]

Bolas

***if your not willing to die then don't send others too.

Considering the unconditional surrenders that have been reported, this could be applicable to the Iraqi forces too.


They did the same shit during the Iran Iraq war. Give up start kissing boots and talking about how were all brothers as soon as they got caught.

There is no pride because there boarders were just lines on a map drawn not to long ago, by others. No unity.

My point is if i'm not willing to die for a cause i don't think its right for me to send or say we should send others.

I find war mongers who have never tasted or willing to see war disgusting.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Channman 2]

quade

***They (Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld) even created their own Office of Special Plans to provide them with the intelligence they wanted to hear.

While I agree with most of what you said, I have evolved on this and do not think GWB actually knew what was going on -- at all -- until very near the end of his Presidency. I think if you really want to know who was in charge of the US during the GWB Presidency, you need look no further than the signatory members of the PNAC who received appointments to powerful positions within it and all coordinated by Cheney. I think GWB was a puppet President in the true sense of the word.

Who or what organization has their hand or hands up Obama's BUTT??

[quade 3]

Channman

Who or what organization has their hand or hands up Obama's BUTT??

If you think you can make a compelling case to that effect, go for it. Remember to show your work. No copying off the kid sitting next to you.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[tkhayes 124]

bullshit

Hoover rounded up 6000 people in one day. in the 20's.

we rounded up over 100K Japanese in weeks during WWII.

1. the 50,000 number is some worst case scenario dreamed up by whom exactly? and with what supporting data? that is right, none.

2. even if that was the case we would deal with it like we deal with everything else.

paranoia is going to be the end of this country. And the terrorists continue to win because we are now afraid of the bogey man and ourselves it would seem. Way to go America.

Go listen to the intro of Pale Blue Dot again. it will do you good.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

paranoia is going to be the end of this country

No pacifist are going to be the end of this country. Those that lay down and let government run over them, lie, steal, and ignore. Believing that nothing is ever going to happen to them, and we all just just give up everything and let the government handle it all. If it were not for the sheep dogs of 1765 and 1775 you would still be under the oppression from the East. Those sheep dogs still exist to fight the oppression of today. It was built into the constitution for a reason the men of that day knew and they tried to warn us, but pacifist ignore. I blame the pussification of America.

Benjamin Franklin -Never trust a government that doesn't trust its own citizens with guns.

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[Amazon 7]

Channman

******They (Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld) even created their own Office of Special Plans to provide them with the intelligence they wanted to hear.

While I agree with most of what you said, I have evolved on this and do not think GWB actually knew what was going on -- at all -- until very near the end of his Presidency. I think if you really want to know who was in charge of the US during the GWB Presidency, you need look no further than the signatory members of the PNAC who received appointments to powerful positions within it and all coordinated by Cheney. I think GWB was a puppet President in the true sense of the word.

Who or what organization has their hand or hands up Obama's BUTT??

You have to admit that even with his hand up W's nether regions... he still could not make W's mouth work right.

[tkhayes 124]

we were talking about armed immigrants invading the country and you replied about a corrupt govt et al.

two different subjects. Go ahead and be paranoid. Your life will likely be far more miserable than mine. But at least it is your misery. Just like your religion, your politics, your faith, your paranoia. go ahead, but keep it over there and to yourself. I am not interested nor will I buy into it.

These theories have been around since we had govt and had immigrants, and we are still here. and doing pretty well I think.

Name a personal freedom that you have lost due to the perceived government 'overtaking' the people.....

none? I thought not. But you still believe it to be true. that is pretty much the definition of paranoia.

[Amazon 7]

Come on TK...... you know the General Ripper factor is strong here in SC.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

Go ahead and be paranoid. Your life will likely be far more miserable than mine. But at least it is your misery.

My life is GREAT, we go camping, hiking, fishing, shooting! I feel for you guys when SHTF be it natural disaster, or other...

Quote

Just like your religion, your politics, your faith, your paranoia.

Im agnostic, not aligned to any political party. If you do your job your my man.

Quote

Name a personal freedom that you have lost due to the perceived government 'overtaking' the people

-The ability to own any NFA item without undue cost, wait times, and unannounced search.

-The ability to carry a weapon concealed without cost, registration, and wait times.

-The ability to carry weapons across certain state lines or districts.

-The ability to own certain weapon items deemed "too tactical"

-Numerous items in the Patriot Act(s) that take away privacy, the presumption of innocence, and protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

-The ability to brew or still unlimited amounts of alcohol without registration, permitting, and taxation.

-The ability to hunt or fish any animal regardless of season or limit.

-The expectation of privacy from Wildlife and Fisheries agents in my state. The have the legal authority to enter and search your house without any type of warrant.

-Unreasonable taxation in every aspect. Death tax......etc

I dont have time to list them all, and I doubt if I did you would be willing to discuss any of them with an open mind anyways.

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[Amazon 7]

Anvilbrother

Quote

Go ahead and be paranoid. Your life will likely be far more miserable than mine. But at least it is your misery.

My life is GREAT, we go camping, hiking, fishing, shooting! I feel for you guys when SHTF be it natural disaster, or other...

***Just like your religion, your politics, your faith, your paranoia.

Im agnostic, not aligned to any political party. If you do your job your my man.

Quote

Name a personal freedom that you have lost due to the perceived government 'overtaking' the people

-The ability to own any NFA item without undue cost, wait times, and unannounced search.

-The ability to carry a weapon concealed without cost, registration, and wait times.

-The ability to carry weapons across certain state lines or districts.

-The ability to own certain weapon items deemed "too tactical"

-Numerous items in the Patriot Act(s) that take away privacy, the presumption of innocence, and protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

-The ability to brew or still unlimited amounts of alcohol without registration, permitting, and taxation.

-The ability to hunt or fish any animal regardless of season or limit.

-The expectation of privacy from Wildlife and Fisheries agents in my state. The have the legal authority to enter and search your house without any type of warrant.

-Unreasonable taxation in every aspect. Death tax......etc

I dont have time to list them all, and I doubt if I did you would be willing to discuss any of them with an open mind anyways.

I think you snuck a few in there that came BEFORE 9/11

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

Name a personal freedom that you have lost due to the perceived government 'overtaking' the people

He never said post 9/11 try to keep up.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Amazon 7]

Anvilbrother

Quote

Name a personal freedom that you have lost due to the perceived government 'overtaking' the people

He never said post 9/11 try to keep up.

PSSST which war are we talking about here there Anvil... Last I heard your former Texican President called it "THE WAR ON TERROR". I know you guys just want it to go on and on and on and on.... better for the core industries that yall dig so much that President Eisenhower warned about. Then in this thread we have gone off into scary brown people with guns...especially the part about ISIS sneaking across the Mexican border... General Ripper aint got nuthin on y'all.

[tkhayes 124]

you never 'lost' any of those freedoms because you never actually 'had' any of those freedoms.

Cannot lose something that you never had or were never actually subject to.

you forgot "Having to stop at red lights while driving'

Again you just made my case that you are simply paranoid. And I again say... 'go ahead, be paranoid'.


and....... the thread was on about 50,000 supposed armed insurgents/immigrants/whatever taking over the country, which you failed to address at all.

[DanG 1]

How are increased border security and immigration crackdowns going to improve your freedom? Why are you arguing for a stronger police state, when the police state can only reduce the freedom of its citizens? I really don't get your logic.

- Dan G

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

you never 'lost' any of those freedoms because you never actually 'had' any of those freedoms.

Cannot lose something that you never had or were never actually subject to.

You did not give a timeline for these supposed rights to be taken. You also vaguely stated for me to name the rights taken away from "me". I understood that as ''Me" an American, not "Me" personally.

I can name two right off the top of my head, but I will ask you the same. How many times has your state or local government instituted a mandatory curfew and would arrest anyone out past that?

How many times has your local government confiscated guns during and "emergency"?

Both of those happened to me during Hurricane Katrina. So you might call me "paranoid" because you have never seen it, but I call myself prepared to live a few weeks without local utilites, mcdonalds, walmart, police, or ems....

Quote

the thread was on about 50,000 supposed armed insurgents/immigrants/whatever taking over the country, which you failed to address at all.

I NEVER stated 50,000! That was turtlespeed.

All I stated was that there was a new motivated and funded terror group which has taken over almost two countries. Their stated mission is to kill Americans, and that they have the funds, the will, and the open borders to come over and do their usual gorilla style fighting of blowing up cars or sniping people, which both only take a couple guys each to perform like the DC snipers years ago.

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[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

How are increased border security and immigration crackdowns going to improve your freedom? Why are you arguing for a stronger police state, when the police state can only reduce the freedom of its citizens? I really don't get your logic.

Where did I say any of those things? I am for a smaller government, and military. I was the one that said there was only 60% coverage of the 2000 mile mexican border. That there was 5000 miles of canadian border, and 95,000 miles of costland. Both which are so large it cannot be reasonably ever considered "secure" from small groups of people that want to cross no mater how many fences you put up, they can just tear it down or tunnel under.

Care to explain your quoted statement since you called me out....

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[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Anvilbrother

-The ability to carry a weapon concealed without cost, registration, and wait times.

-The ability to carry weapons across certain state lines or districts.

-The ability to brew or still unlimited amounts of alcohol without registration, permitting, and taxation.

-The ability to hunt or fish any animal regardless of season or limit.

-The expectation of privacy from Wildlife and Fisheries agents in my state. The have the legal authority to enter and search your house without any type of warrant.

I'm only picking and choosing a couple here. You do have some valid points.

A couple states (WY, VT, AK, AZ) allow concealed carry with no permit.

You are allowed to transport through states or municipalities without restriction. For example, I can have a pistol cased and unloaded in my trunk while transiting NYC. I just can't stop.

The alcohol restriction had been in place longer than the US Constitution. Remember the "Whiskey Rebellion"?

Unrestricted hunting. Like with the Passenger Pigeon?

I don't know about your state, but here in WI, the DNR has the same restrictions as far as search and seizure as any other Law Enforcement.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Anvilbrother 0]

You better check your laws. There are restrictions even if it is in your car. In some states it has to be locked in a case, some states require the ammo and weapon be located in two different parts of the vehicle. Ie weapon in trunk, ammo locked in glove box.

As far as the hunting goes, no just killing a deer or food basically anytime of the year. If you lived on a ranch in my state and wanted to be self sufficient you could only shoot a deer from October 1-February 15th. That's with a bow only. For a gun you only get a month. How can the government tell a person they can't kill a deer for food if they are hungry but one month per year.

The topic has changed from the start, but here in sc it usually does. The point i am trying to make is that we had the revolution to get away from the same type of shit we are dealing with today. Snowden, wiki leaks, and whistleblowers have proven time and time again if you let government do what it wants it will trample all over your rights and break laws at will.

I'm not paranoid I'm prepared for natural disasters which happen in Louisiana quite frequently. Watch how fast stores run empty about 48 hours after a predicted landfall happens. Watch how fast criminals come out to loot after a town is forced to evacuate. Then mandatory curfews happen. Read Gordon Hutchinsons book "the great gun grab". It details the gun confiscations and arrests during Katrina, the military state that happened once the national guard started patrolling with rifles. I was there, when I get home tomorrow I will post pictures, that place was a war zone!

The same will happen during political unrest.

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[tkhayes 124]

Quote

I'm not paranoid....

Yes you are

[Anvilbrother 0]

I think you are just too far gone to see the truth. 37% of Americans fear the us government that's around 117 million people! Either that or your so wealthy you don't struggle with real Americans and can just move out of the country instead of fighting for America.

http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/april_2014/37_of_voters_fear_the_federal_government

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[quade 3]

You may wish to read this article.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703384204575510272945083114?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052748703384204575510272945083114.html

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Anvilbrother 0]

That would explain crazy results from a one off poll, but when every search result shows the same numbers it's not tricky questioning. Google "do you trust the government" or some variation of that and look at the results. He's trying to paint me as the only one in America that is suspect of the government, the results usually end up having 50-100+million people saying no.

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[quade 3]

Quote

...the results usually end up having 50-100+million people saying no.

Not really.

37% of poll respondence do not equal 37% of the population. It only represents the population from which the same was taken; in this case "likely voters" which in itself is a pretty small percentage of the population.

Also 50 to 100 is a 100% difference which is a pretty wide margin for anything if you're saying something is accurate.

I would say that if polled NRA members you could get nearly 100% of them to say they "fear" the government would take away their guns. However, that doesn't mean 100% of the population of the US has that fear.

My guess is upwards of 30% of the population has a generalized fear of the government for one reason or another (IRS investigations, prior convictions for minor offenses, whatever), but that doesn't mean they're living in fear huddled in their basement prepping.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver