Big Merger

[turtlespeed 212]

If Phizer does make this happen, and then reincorporates in England - they only pay 21 and then 20% corporate tax.

That is about a billion dollars a year in corporate tax savings.

The slow exodus continues.

All the corporate hating people out there need to see where the bread is really buttered before they bite the hand that feeds them.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[freethefly 6]

Another America hating American company looking to strap more tax burden on the backs of the working class while they enjoy paying less. Classy! Hell, if they are allowed to seek to pay zero to the U.S. then all Americans should be allowed to do such. Of course then, we can forget about paying our armed forces, border patrol, building our infrastructure... all of the good things that come from those who believe that paying taxes help the U.S..
It is obvious that that the big corporations do not believe in helping America.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[cloud9 0]

Quote

It is obvious that that the big corporations do not believe in helping America

I don't know how true that is, but they are beholding to the stock holders. I know I worked for a major oil company and invested in stock. I just retired at age 59 yrs 6 mo and with a little luck should be able to pay myself the rest of my life. If the stock wasn't making money I would either still be working or would have invested in other stocks. If too many started investing in other stock then the company would have been in great financial trouble. It's a balancing act for sure.

The biggest problem isn't even paying the taxes, it's the tax code. The tax codes are so complicated companies have to hire lawyers and accountants just for taxes. They pay millions a year just to comply with the tax laws. I think if we just simplified the tax code it would help a lot.

[freethefly 6]

I agree that the codes need a revamp. However, who is left with the bill in the mean time?

Every time I hear of a company looking to move its assets offshore, I cannot help but to think of Ingersoll Rand. The worst of the worst. They funnel money overseas to avoid paying any taxes. They have put thousands of Americans out of work. They sent my job, when I worked for them, to Mexico. They call themselves an American company.

Old article.
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2002/04
/22/020422ta_talk_surowiecki

Of course, they'll spend millions to not have to pay one red cent to the United States. Real good people

This is what needs to stop.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/25/usa-tax-litigation-idUSL2N0J42F420131125

Ingersoll Rand owes America. Not the other way around.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[cloud9 0]

Agreed we need to elect people willing to do the tough job. Revamp the tax system and no loop holds, no grants no corporate welfare programs!

[rushmc 18]

freethefly

I agree that the codes need a revamp. However, who is left with the bill in the mean time?

Every time I hear of a company looking to move its assets offshore, I cannot help but to think of Ingersoll Rand. The worst of the worst. They funnel money overseas to avoid paying any taxes. They have put thousands of Americans out of work. They sent my job, when I worked for them, to Mexico. They call themselves an American company.

Old article.
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2002/04
/22/020422ta_talk_surowiecki

Of course, they'll spend millions to not have to pay one red cent to the United States. Real good people

This is what needs to stop.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/25/usa-tax-litigation-idUSL2N0J42F420131125

Ingersoll Rand owes America. Not the other way around.

what most people do not realize is corps do not pay taxes (in the end). It is just another pass through cost considered when pricing the good or service

Anyway you look at it, the working people pay the tax

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 3]

rushmc

what most people do not realize is corps do not pay taxes (in the end). It is just another pass through cost considered when pricing the good or service

Anyway you look at it, the working people pay the tax

No. The consumers of the product pay the tax. There is a difference.

I don't pay any taxes whatsoever for Coors, Chevrolet or Summer's Eve.

YMMV.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DanG 1]

Quote

Anyway you look at it, the working people pay the tax

Yeah, but where to working people get their money? Wages from corporations. So the corporations really do pay the tax.

My point it that you can follow that logic around in circles all you want. It doesn't mean anything.

- Dan G

[rushmc 18]

DanG

Quote

Anyway you look at it, the working people pay the tax

Yeah, but where to working people get their money? Wages from corporations. So the corporations really do pay the tax.

My point it that you can follow that logic around in circles all you want. It doesn't mean anything.

anyway you look at it, it is a tax
and the working people are those who purchase and ultimatly, pay that tax

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

My point is that you can follow that logic around in circles all you want. It doesn't mean anything.

- Dan G

[rushmc 18]

DanG

My point is that you can follow that logic around in circles all you want. It doesn't mean anything.

Ya, you said that once already
You and I disagree
Nothing new I guess......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,396]

>It is obvious that that the big corporations do not believe in helping America.

I hope this is not a new revelation to you. Big corporations believe in making money. In a capitalist society that is the only real definition of success.

>Of course then, we can forget about paying our armed forces, border patrol,
>building our infrastructure... all of the good things that come from those who
>believe that paying taxes help the U.S.

They do the math and decide if they can get those services cheaper somewhere else.

[champu 1]

rushmc

***My point is that you can follow that logic around in circles all you want. It doesn't mean anything.

Ya, you said that once already
You and I disagree
Nothing new I guess......

Dan is at least mostly correct here, even if a bit impatient and unclear about it.

It doesn't matter if you include taxes or fees above or below the line, the tax affects both parties to the transaction. This is because no demand curve is perfectly inelastic. How much it affects each party depends. The wiki article on the subject is reasonably well written.

[rushmc 18]

champu

******My point is that you can follow that logic around in circles all you want. It doesn't mean anything.

Ya, you said that once already
You and I disagree
Nothing new I guess......

Dan is at least mostly correct here, even if a bit impatient and unclear about it.

It doesn't matter if you include taxes or fees above or below the line, the tax affects both parties to the transaction. This is because no demand curve is perfectly inelastic. How much it affects each party depends. The wiki article on the subject is reasonably well written.

I understand what he is trying to say

But a tax is no more than a cost
If all suppliers were only in the US and all were taxed, only the cousumer would be hurt in the end
Because they pay the cost of the goods or services that include the tax

In this world, tax added in the US only make companies less competitive
They have to find ways to cut cost or move to where that extra tax cost is removed. In some cases it must move or go out of business
Now
This is not just taxes
It is also regulation that add signigficant costs to operate

The lead industry comes to mind as the last one in the US just closed due to regulation
A win for the greenies I guess
But a loss for US manufacturing

And we know that this same product will be produced elswhere in the world and will most likly be done with fewer enviornmental controls in place
But it will be cheaper

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[champu 1]

rushmc

But a tax is no more than a cost. If all suppliers were only in the US and all were taxed, only the cousumer would be hurt in the end , because they pay the cost of the goods or services that include the tax.

In this world, tax added in the US only make companies less competitive. They have to find ways to cut cost or move to where that extra tax cost is removed. In some cases it must move or go out of business.

Your first paragraph here is false, and assumes that the good or service you're talking about has an inelastic demand curve (i.e. people will buy the same amount of it no matter what it costs.) Not even gasoline is perfectly inelastic, so an increase in price (hurting the consumer) will always be accompanied by a decrease in quantity demanded (hurting the seller.)

Your second paragraph is correct, taxes and regulations on domestic companies without corresponding tariffs on imported goods and services will tend to drive companies (or at least their income) out of the country. But this is a separate issue from how taxes are borne by each party to a transaction.

[kallend 1,623]

rushmc

*********My point is that you can follow that logic around in circles all you want. It doesn't mean anything.

Ya, you said that once already
You and I disagree
Nothing new I guess......

Dan is at least mostly correct here, even if a bit impatient and unclear about it.

It doesn't matter if you include taxes or fees above or below the line, the tax affects both parties to the transaction. This is because no demand curve is perfectly inelastic. How much it affects each party depends. The wiki article on the subject is reasonably well written.

I understand what he is trying to say

But a tax is no more than a cost



False. It is a way to raise revenues to provide services to the people, such as roads, national parks, fire service, police service, clean water, disease monitoring, food and drug safety, air traffic control, etc.

If you don't like these things, maybe you should go live in Somalia.

Quote

The lead industry comes to mind as the last one in the US just closed due to regulation
A win for the greenies I guess

Also a win for anyone who breathes air.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mirage62 0]

Quote

Also a win for anyone who breathes air.

Sure as long as you don't live in a third world country that will now produce it.

Oh yeah, they won't have the restrictions we have, or oversight so most likely they will make even more polution....luckly it will STAY in their country

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[freethefly 6]

Quote

The lead industry comes to mind as the last one in the US just closed due to regulation
A win for the greenies I guess
But a loss for US manufacturing

And we know that this same product will be produced elswhere in the world and will most likly be done with fewer enviornmental controls in place
But it will be cheaper

And...... under which administration did the EPA regulation come from? Bush!
This affected primary smelting plants. Secondary smelting plants still operate. Primary is mined. Secondary use recycled material.

Would you rather regulations be lax and allow these plants to spew toxic chemicals into the air and water? They will surely do this where ever they can in the name of profit. The land, the wildlife and, the people mean very little when there is big money at stake. Of course, those at the top do not have to live in the filth and toxic waste dumps they create.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[billvon 2,396]

>Oh yeah, they won't have the restrictions we have, or oversight so most likely
>they will make even more polution....

At least until they become prosperous enough to be able to afford things like clean air.

[kelpdiver 2]

turtlespeed

If Phizer does make this happen, and then reincorporates in England - they only pay 21 and then 20% corporate tax.

That is about a billion dollars a year in corporate tax savings.

It's a bit more dangerous for the drug companies to play this game, all the while charging higher rates for the drugs to Americans (look at the vastly different prices for Gilead's Hep C treatment). To do this, while claiming the profit is actually made somewhere else, invites reactionary legislation to fix the wrong (in the form of price guidelines corresponding to the profit claims).

The consumer credit financial industry got slammed by this and didn't like it very much at all.

[mirage62 0]

LOL , so let me get this straight. We ship the jobs to a third world country - so we lose the jobs - then their standard if living goes up and then they start worrying about clean air so they clean it up??

Why don't we just keep it here and the jobs?

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[billvon 2,396]

>LOL , so let me get this straight. We ship the jobs to a third world country - so
>we lose the jobs - then their standard if living goes up and then they start
>worrying about clean air so they clean it up??

Pretty much. Only prosperous people can afford to clean up their air and water. If you are constantly wondering where your next meal is coming from, you're not going to worry about whether or not you get emphysema or lung cancer in 30 years.

>Why don't we just keep it here and the jobs?

The pollution? We tried that; Donora, PA and Love Canal, NY come to mind. We decided "no thanks."

[richravizza 25]

YOU HIT THE NAIL.
Companies are leaving California in droves to more Tax friendly Places like Nevada and Texas.
Pfiser is just playing on on international scale.
It's Definitely not about Love and loyalty.
It's all about a Dollar.

Capitalism always gets a blame, but what other way is there?

[mirage62 0]

Bill, really? Where's your love for the poor? Truthfully. It will create MORE pollution because these countries won't have people - like you - to protest and watch over the process and demand it be made cleaner.

You really are a cold hearted business person deep inside.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[rushmc 18]

freethefly

Quote

The lead industry comes to mind as the last one in the US just closed due to regulation
A win for the greenies I guess
But a loss for US manufacturing

And we know that this same product will be produced elswhere in the world and will most likly be done with fewer enviornmental controls in place
But it will be cheaper

And...... under which administration did the EPA regulation come from? Bush!
This affected primary smelting plants. Secondary smelting plants still operate. Primary is mined. Secondary use recycled material.

Would you rather regulations be lax and allow these plants to spew toxic chemicals into the air and water? They will surely do this where ever they can in the name of profit. The land, the wildlife and, the people mean very little when there is big money at stake. Of course, those at the top do not have to live in the filth and toxic waste dumps they create.

I dont care what admin pushes exesive regulations !

And I have already stated that I want dirty air that causes lung cancer and water that gives you the shits

Now you get it?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln