Smart Guns a Dumb Idea

[jgoose71 0]

A storekeeper in Maryland was set to start selling them until he was "convinced" to do otherwise:

Quote

Gun rights advocates are worried about a New Jersey law under which only smart handguns can be sold there within three years of being sold anywhere in the country. The law, they fear, will be replicated in other states. Similar proposals have been introduced in California and Congress.

So if big government wasn't so hell bent on forcing this technology down peoples throats and forcing them to pay for it, maybe this would be moving along a lot faster by now....

Talk about shooting your self in the foot....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/threats-against-maryland-gun-dealer-raise-doubts-about-future-of-smart-guns/2014/05/02/8a4f7482-d227-11e3-9e25-188ebe1fa93b_story.html

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[quade 3]

I'm not completely certain I understand the problem with the store selling the gun. If the client wants to buy it, why shouldn't he be allowed to?

Oh wait, that only applies to guns the NRA approves of.

Nevermind.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[GeorgiaDon 340]

So smart guns are a "dumb idea" why? Because supposedly "responsible" gun owners are threatening to kill the owner, kill his dog (!), and burn down the store if he sells one?

Well there's a business model I never thought of. Open a store, and then threaten to kill anyone who sells a competing product. I mean, if death threats are an acceptable way to get what you want, where's the limit?

Or more to the point, where's the condemnation from all tthose so-called "responsible" gun owners?

Smart guns seem a reasonable solution to some issues. How do you keep a gun in the house so that is accessible enough for self defense, yet isn't a danger to children that might find it?

Who are these people who would use death threats to keep such a product off the market?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[quade 3]

I believe it was Deep Throat who said, "Follow the money."

It's all, "LET THE FREE MARKET DECIDE!" until you bring a competing product to market.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

quade

I believe it was Deep Throat who said, "Follow the money."

It's all, "LET THE FREE MARKET DECIDE!" until you bring a competing product to market.

Are you guys deliberately missing the point here, or just being stupid?

The legislation doesn't let the free market decides. It dictates that only these "smart" products can be sold, once it is determined they meet the criteria.

And I have little doubt that it, like every other proposed bill, excludes LEOs from having to use them, since cops won't trust their lives to unreliable guns. Why should citizens?

Like you suggest, if they really are such great products, the market will decide. And if they're instead bad jokes, only idiots will buy them.

California already has experienced a variation of this. Last year the AG declared that there was now viable technology to microstamp shell casings and therefore no handguns without it would be permissible. Somehow that ended up being more of a symbolic declaration, but it's again an example of no free market choice, but rather, the continued attempt to ban choice or increase its cost to discourage people from exercising their rights.

[quade 3]

Right back at ya buddy.

kelpdiver

Are you guys deliberately missing the point just making shit up here, or just being stupid?

What legislation?

Is there ANY smart gun legislation currently on the books in California (where this store is)?

Oh, oh NEW JERSEY, where this isn't actually a thing yet and a completely different state altogether. So you think it's appropriate for people 2000 miles away in another state to make death threats against a gun just attempting to sell a completely legal product in another state?

Seriously?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

"a New Jersey law under which only smart handguns can be sold there"

it's the entire reason for this thread.

[quade 3]

kelpdiver

"a New Jersey law under which only smart handguns can be sold there"

it's the entire reason for this thread.

Again, so you think it's appropriate for people irate in one state to make death threats against a businessman in a completely different state just because he's selling a completely legal product in his own state?

That's bananas.

If they don't like the law in their state -- they can change it THERE.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[sfzombie13 307]

in this case it is ok. ca recently saidn that when the technology was viable, then they would require it. if nj demonstrates viablility, ca will legislate it, as in the shell casing fiasco. so it is a vested interest of ca residents not to allow this to happen. i do not condone death threats, just explaining the connection. you appear to have missed it.

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[GeorgiaDon 340]

kelpdiver

"a New Jersey law under which only smart handguns can be sold there"

it's the entire reason for this thread.

If you don't like a law, there is a process for addressing that. Death threats should not be any part of that process. I'm rather shocked you don't see that, as (in regards to topics other than guns) you come across as generally level headed and rational.

If death threats are an acceptable strategy here, instead of a political solution such as was followed in Colorado, then where are any lines to be drawn? Can I legitimately use death threats to attempt to discourage people who would compete against me for business? for political office? for anything at all? Is that just "free speech? I assume (hope) you'd draw a line at actually killing people.

I am being denied my right to buy a product of my own choosing, because of thugs who can't be bothered with legal means to get a law they dislike amended or repealed.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[billvon 2,400]

"Smart Phones a Dumb Idea." Heard that one a lot back around 1999, when we started working on BREW (the predecessor to Android.) It, of course, came mainly from our competitors.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

billvon

"Smart Phones a Dumb Idea." Heard that one a lot back around 1999, when we started working on BREW (the predecessor to Android.) It, of course, came mainly from our competitors.

Did they also threaten to kill you, your dog, and burn down your place of business? I understand that's acceptable business practice these days, just so long as you don't actually do it.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[GD64 1]

So you hear "bump" in the night at your family residence, you grab the equalizer and the armed bad guys are inside your perimeter moving toward you and your family. You attempt to "double tap" the nearest threat.....a "no fire" your "smart weapon" has been hacked/electronically jammed and YOU are "double tapped" and your FAMILY......................

A Stupid Fucking Idea!!

[billvon 2,400]

So you hear a "click - thump" in the middle of the night and you realize your 6 year old just got hold of your handgun; he's been watching where you keep the key to the gun safe. You jump out of bed, then you hear a "bang" as the "dumb gun" fires as it is designed to . . . .

Stupid fucking idea.

[GD64 1]

Jeeez, is there a anti-personal responsibility campaign going on here?

I know these are different times but some people do a damn good job of parenting!

FYI...grew up in family of 10 kids and the gun cabinet was full with ammo stored in unlocked bottom drawer. Since we were ranchers/farmers there were firearms on tractors, in pick-up's (varmints, and to deal with badly injured livestock). Not one of my brothers and sisters touched a firearm without permission and/or supervision. Same goes for neighbors kids (also large families).

We don't know each other, but maybe you are showing a little anti-gun bias? or not?

[Stumpy 256]

So you think this shop shouldn't be allowed to sell whatever guns he likes and let the market decide?

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[GD64 1]

I believe in the free market.

He can sell whatever he wants. If works for him great. If not, that's business.

[Stumpy 256]

GD64

I believe in the free market.

He can sell whatever he wants. If works for him great. If not, that's business.

Good stuff - unfortunately, the NRA and second amendment extremists seem to disagree with you in this case.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[billvon 2,400]

>Jeeez, is there a anti-personal responsibility campaign going on here?

?? No. The odds of both are extremely low. However, since about 100 accidental shootings every year occur due to kids getting hold of a gun, and since no family has ever been killed because a criminal hacked their gun (or car, or airplane, or furnace) you're at much higher risk of seeing my scenario, on average.

I have no doubt you are a much more responsible person than the average gun owner, and thus the odds of the dumb-gun accidental death are even lower. However, keep in mind that some of those child shootings involve someone else (perhaps a less responsible child from another family) getting hold of a gun and accidentally shooting someone else.

Will a smart gun solve all those problems? Probably not, and it might add new problems. Should you get a smart gun? Completely up to you.

[GD64 1]

I see your points.
We may lean slightly different directions, but want the same thing......no innocents hurt or worse.

[champu 1]

GeorgiaDon

Or more to the point, where's the condemnation from all tthose so-called "responsible" gun owners?

You do realize you sound exactly like the "where are the Muslims denouncing terrorists?" People, right?

That said, of course death threats against the store owner and/or smart gun manufacturer are not an appropriate way to deal with this. Repealing garbage firearm laws like the one in New Jersey that triggers mandates on the availability of guns with bracelets or the one in California that recently went into effect requiring new handguns to implement micro stamping technology in order to be added to the roster (police exempt in both cases, of course) is the way to go.

Or so you would think.

The problem I run into is I can't even get my state "representatives" to reply to my correspondence (aside from that they now spam me) regarding the annual deluge of new gun laws, so repealing ones on the books seems a bit of a long shot. Also, I doubt I could expect much help from those who smugly deny the existence of bad gun control measures.

The only real viable avenue to get rid of these things is to let them take effect and then go to court and hope the court throws it out as unconstitutional. The probability of any new gun control measure introduced in California being unconstitutional is rapidly approaching 1.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

You do realize you sound exactly like the "where are the Muslims denouncing terrorists?" People, right?

Yes, that was kind of the point. It seems to me some people who decline to condemn, or even support the "death threat" strategy are the same ones who trot out the "why won't muslims denounce terrorism" argument.

The rest of your post I think is very reasonable.

For the record, I do not agree with mandating that all guns be "smart guns". I just want that option to be available.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[craddock 0]

edit because I didn't actually watch the video before I responded. If anyone saw my response I am aware of how misinformed it was.

That said I believe there is a strong possibility there was some outpouring and this store owner is playing it up to get national attention. No doubt this store is about to have a major increase in sales. Something just seems amiss to me about this

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[jgoose71 0]

billvon

Will a smart gun solve all those problems? Probably not, and it might add new problems. Should you get a smart gun? Completely up to you.

It's already been said, but it bears repeating again:

The New Jersey laws no longer leave that choice up to you. The choice is taken out of the free market.

I personally think that smart guns are a good idea, however, mandating unproven technology is a bad idea. Especially when that unproven technology affects one of your constitutionally protected rights.

How would feel if I said before you could vote you had to go buy a watch with NFC technology that proves who you are and that you were voting in the right district? And then hope the battery isn't dead when you get there?

The other point of this thread is that if it wasn't for the New Jersey Legislation, the sale would have happened and consumers would have another option. This would have helped work out any bugs in the technology and helped with gun safety.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[billvon 2,400]

>I personally think that smart guns are a good idea, however, mandating unproven
>technology is a bad idea. Especially when that unproven technology affects one of
>your constitutionally protected rights.

I agree. Incentives? Great idea to prove out the technology. Mandate? Not until we have performance data.