Libertarian test

[Croc 0]

Possibly a re-post, but this has come up recently. Sorry, don't know how to make it a clicky.

http://theadvocates.org/quiz/quiz.php

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[RobK 0]

http://theadvocates.org/quiz/quiz.php

[Croc 0]

Thanks!

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[turtlespeed 212]

Croc

Thanks!

Way to limited . . . it needs to be expanded to individual issues.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[GeorgiaDon 340]

As might be expected from a 10-question quiz, highly nuanced issues are represented by an incredibly simplistic question with only yes/no/maybe as possible answers. Even if you agree with a statement for 99% of the cases you can think of, if you know of even one case where you disagree with the statement you have to choose "no".

I think the quiz is at least as much a measure of selfishness as it is of political leaning. It's easy to say government spending and taxes should be reduced by 50%, who wouldn't want their taxes to go down by 50%. It would be more interesting to have a series of questions, each one addressing a specific government department, the service they provide, how much that costs the taxpayer, and the consequence and cost of shutting down that service. For example, you could ask:

"Do you favor eliminating the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), which oversees safety testing and registration of pharmaceutical drugs and the safety and security (against bioterrorism) of the nation's food supply at an annual cost to the taxpayer of $2.5 billion (about $20/taxpayer), if the alternative is self-regulation of drugs, without oversight, by the pharmaceutical industry and a food supply that is not monitored for contamination including bioterrorism attacks such as anthrax."

At least, that might make people aware of what they are getting for their $20, and what keeping that $20 in their pocket might cost them.

If you went through all the government services, one at a time this way, I wonder if you would be able to get close to a consensus on how to cut spending by 10%, much less 50%.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[quade 3]

GeorgiaDon

I think the quiz is at least as much a measure of selfishness as it is of political leaning.

See Ayn Rand Institute dictionary entry under "objectivism." For some, selfishness IS a political leaning.

Now, you might think I'm being glib. I'm not. Seriously. See for yourself.

http://www.aynrand.org/ideas/overview

Understand the ARI has attempted to sugar coat it, but if you actually read what she wrote it's clear she actually did attempt to justify pure selfishness as a political philosophy.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[turtlespeed 212]

quade

***I think the quiz is at least as much a measure of selfishness as it is of political leaning.

See Ayn Rand Institute dictionary entry under "objectivism." For some, selfishness IS a political leaning.

Now, you might think I'm being glib. I'm not. Seriously. See for yourself.

http://www.aynrand.org/ideas/overview

Understand the ARI has attempted to sugar coat it, but if you actually read what she wrote it's clear she actually did attempt to justify pure selfishness as a political philosophy.

One could argue that liberalism is selfishness.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

turtlespeed

******I think the quiz is at least as much a measure of selfishness as it is of political leaning.

See Ayn Rand Institute dictionary entry under "objectivism." For some, selfishness IS a political leaning.

Now, you might think I'm being glib. I'm not. Seriously. See for yourself.

http://www.aynrand.org/ideas/overview

Understand the ARI has attempted to sugar coat it, but if you actually read what she wrote it's clear she actually did attempt to justify pure selfishness as a political philosophy.

One could argue that liberalism is selfishness.

In what convoluted stream of consciousness did you come up with that one.??

[turtlespeed 212]

Amazon

*********I think the quiz is at least as much a measure of selfishness as it is of political leaning.

See Ayn Rand Institute dictionary entry under "objectivism." For some, selfishness IS a political leaning.

Now, you might think I'm being glib. I'm not. Seriously. See for yourself.

http://www.aynrand.org/ideas/overview

Understand the ARI has attempted to sugar coat it, but if you actually read what she wrote it's clear she actually did attempt to justify pure selfishness as a political philosophy.

One could argue that liberalism is selfishness.

In what convoluted stream of consciousness did you come up with that one.??

yours.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

turtlespeed

************I think the quiz is at least as much a measure of selfishness as it is of political leaning.

See Ayn Rand Institute dictionary entry under "objectivism." For some, selfishness IS a political leaning.

Now, you might think I'm being glib. I'm not. Seriously. See for yourself.

http://www.aynrand.org/ideas/overview

Understand the ARI has attempted to sugar coat it, but if you actually read what she wrote it's clear she actually did attempt to justify pure selfishness as a political philosophy.

One could argue that liberalism is selfishness.

In what convoluted stream of consciousness did you come up with that one.??

yours.

Let me introduce you to a concept.... http://psychology.about.com/od/cognitivepsychology/f/dissonance.htm

[CorvusCrypto 0]

So I ended up with "Dick Cheney" in the results.

Joking aside, I agree with the comments about this being too narrow. Yeah I see the appeal of 10-question quizzes, but the questions on these types are usually fairly loaded xD

I can't wait till I see the first national "Facebook quiz" debate for elections. Screw analysis, I'm not reading more-than-200 character answers!

"I would rather be ashes than dust. I would rather be a majestic eagle riding a missile across the sky with sparklers than be an old couch potato." - Jack London (paraphrased)

[Amazon 7]

CorvusCrypto

So I ended up with "Dick Cheney" in the results.

Joking aside, I agree with the comments about this being too narrow. Yeah I see the appeal of 10-question quizzes, but the questions on these types are usually fairly loaded xD

I can't wait till I see the first national "Facebook quiz" debate for elections. Screw analysis, I'm not reading more-than-200 character answers!

Ok.. no need to read this one... it is the 1980 Presidential platform of the Libertarian Party.. where Koch ran for VP... and you get a John Bircher wet dream view of America for the few...

It looks like what we had in the good old days of the Gilded Age of the 1890's...

In 1980, David Koch ran as the Libertarian Party's vice-presidential candidate in 1980.
Let's take a look at the 1980 Libertarian Party platform.
Here are just a few excerpts of the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:

"We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission."
"We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs."
"We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services."
"We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry."
"We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary."
"We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service."
"We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes."
"We support the eventual repeal of all taxation."
"As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately."
"We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws."
"We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended."
"We condemn compulsory education laws ... and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws."
"We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit."
"We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency."
"We support abolition of the Department of Energy."
"We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation."
"We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system."
"We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets."
"We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration."
"We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration."
"We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children."
"We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and 'aid to the poor' programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals."
"We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households."
"We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act."
"We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission."
"We support the repeal of all state usury laws."
In other words, the agenda of the Koch brothers is not only to defund Obamacare. The agenda of the Koch brothers is to repeal every major piece of legislation that has been signed into law over the past 80 years that has protected the middle class, the elderly, the children, the sick, and the most vulnerable in this country. http://www.sanders.senate.gov/koch-brothers

[CorvusCrypto 0]

Yeah.... that post wins x)

The last one still makes me laugh. Although, to be honest it's not like usury laws are leak-proof nowadays. Still, that's a grade-A platform if ever I saw one !

"I would rather be ashes than dust. I would rather be a majestic eagle riding a missile across the sky with sparklers than be an old couch potato." - Jack London (paraphrased)

[Amazon 7]

CorvusCrypto

Yeah.... that post wins x)

The last one still makes me laugh. Although, to be honest it's not like usury laws are leak-proof nowadays. Still, that's a grade-A platform if ever I saw one !

Ask yourself where you would fit into that country.... It would have very little to protect anyone other than a very few wealthy people.. No regulation of anything... truly I got mine and fuck all yall... you are on your own..

Oh by the way.. I already stole your bootstraps... you did not need them anyway.

[ryoder 1,381]

turtlespeed

One could argue that liberalism is selfishness.

One could also argue that war is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[CorvusCrypto 0]

Amazon

Ask yourself where you would fit into that country.... It would have very little to protect anyone other than a very few wealthy people.. No regulation of anything... truly I got mine and fuck all yall... you are on your own..

Oh by the way.. I already stole your bootstraps... you did not need them anyway.

no kidding. To add to that, getting rid of OSHA and EPA laws would make things really shitty in our labs with all the lazy and stingy lab managers we have. Also, since even the work I do still nets me only about 25k/yr, in that country, I would be the guy who gets stomped on while big pharma takes my findings and makes millions since the FDA isn't there to regulate drugs xDDD

And please give my bootstraps back :(. I use those to pull myself up.

"I would rather be ashes than dust. I would rather be a majestic eagle riding a missile across the sky with sparklers than be an old couch potato." - Jack London (paraphrased)

[quade 3]

turtlespeed

******I think the quiz is at least as much a measure of selfishness as it is of political leaning.

See Ayn Rand Institute dictionary entry under "objectivism." For some, selfishness IS a political leaning.

Now, you might think I'm being glib. I'm not. Seriously. See for yourself.

http://www.aynrand.org/ideas/overview

Understand the ARI has attempted to sugar coat it, but if you actually read what she wrote it's clear she actually did attempt to justify pure selfishness as a political philosophy.

One could argue that liberalism is selfishness.

I'm not doing any gymnastics here parsing the ARI point of view. It's completely unnecessary as they outright state it themselves based on Rand's own words.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ryoder 1,381]

quade

***
One could argue that liberalism is selfishness.

I'm not doing any gymnastics here parsing the ARI point of view. It's completely unnecessary as they outright state it themselves based on Rand's own words.

Gee, why do you say that? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Virtue_of_Selfishness

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[quade 3]

Or . . . straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKd0ToQD00o

Pertinent part begins around 5:20, but is linked in full for the sake of context.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jgoose71 0]

ryoder

***
One could argue that liberalism is selfishness.

One could also argue that war is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength.

I personally like to screw for virginity....

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]For some, selfishness IS a political leaning.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

Cut the shit. Everybody is selfish.

There are different versions of "selfish", though, that depend on people's perspective of how things work directly and indirectly, and over time, to benefit them.

For example:
Selfish A: I don't have kids in school, why should I pay taxes to support education? Let parents pay tuition, and if they can't afford it too bad, not my problem.
Selfish B: I benefit from living in a society with an educated work force. Our economy would be out-competed economically and become a backwater, and would be vastly less interesting, and crime would likely be even more of a problem than it is already if education was limited to children whose parents could pay private school tuition. I'll pay my school taxes.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[billvon 2,384]

>Cut the shit. Everybody is selfish.

Agreed. But not everyone has the vision to see where that selfishness will lead.

[Amazon 7]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

Cut the shit. Everybody is selfish.

There are different versions of "selfish", though, that depend on people's perspective of how things work directly and indirectly, and over time, to benefit them.

For example:
Selfish A: I don't have kids in school, why should I pay taxes to support education? Let parents pay tuition, and if they can't afford it too bad, not my problem.
Selfish B: I benefit from living in a society with an educated work force. Our economy would be out-competed economically and become a backwater, and would be vastly less interesting, and crime would likely be even more of a problem than it is already if education was limited to children whose parents could pay private school tuition. I'll pay my school taxes.

Don

I choose option B... I prefer to live in a civilized society.. with educated people who also have some skin in the game of life

[quade 3]

lawrocket

Everybody is selfish.

To a certain extent, but once you take it to Randian extremes you should instantly recognize the flaws in her "logic."

In the video previously linked she says something to the effect that nobody has ever proved altruism is good for society.

All anyone need do it look at the history of mankind to understand that's simply not true at all. Even before civilization humans banded together into tribes for mutual protection. With the advent of civilization, it becomes blindingly apparent that social cooperation is vastly superior to only looking out for ones self interest.

If somebody wishes to go live alone in the woods, living off the land all by himself, by all means that person has my respect and is free to do so. However, anyone that wants to live in society yet espouses this Randian gibberish is a blatant hypocrite.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver