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kallend

Can the death penalty get any more f'ed up?

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grue

***Mr. Lockett received the death penalty for the 1999 kidnapping, rape and murder of a 19-year-old woman and Mr. Warner for the 1997 murder and rape of an 11-month-old girl.



...and? Killing people for "justice" doesn't revive or un-rape their victims. It's action based on emotion, which is rarely a good idea.

There are those 1% of the time when I have no issue with it. This is one of those times. They were a young 19 year old girl and an 11 month old baby. If she was your 11 month old child; you would want what? Imagine this fucker takes your 11 month old daughter and tortures her by raping her and then kills her.

Oh, let's just lock him up and throw away the key. Yeah, I'm sure that would be your response. Retribution for those who cannot defend themselves is not an emotional response; it is a necessary and moral act.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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BIGUN

******Mr. Lockett received the death penalty for the 1999 kidnapping, rape and murder of a 19-year-old woman and Mr. Warner for the 1997 murder and rape of an 11-month-old girl.



...and? Killing people for "justice" doesn't revive or un-rape their victims. It's action based on emotion, which is rarely a good idea.

There are those 1% of the time when I have no issue with it. This is one of those times. They were a young 19 year old girl and an 11 month old baby. If she was your 11 month old child; you would want what? Imagine this fucker takes your 11 month old daughter and tortures her by raping her and then kills her.

Oh, let's just lock him up and throw away the key. Yeah, I'm sure that would be your response. Retribution for those who cannot defend themselves is not an emotional response; it is a necessary and moral act.

WWJD[:/]

I think there is a passage or two in the book that say something about usurping the Lords job of judgment.

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BIGUN


There are those 1% of the time when I have no issue with it. This is one of those times. They were a young 19 year old girl and an 11 month old baby. If she was your 11 month old child; you would want what? Imagine this fucker takes your 11 month old daughter and tortures her by raping her and then kills her.

Oh, let's just lock him up and throw away the key. Yeah, I'm sure that would be your response. Retribution for those who cannot defend themselves is not an emotional response; it is a necessary and moral act.



I disagree.

First off I would not have an 11 month old daughter and if by some hellacious set of circumstances I did, I wouldn't see her or know anything about her after she went up for adoption.

Second, I genuinely don't place the lives of children above anyone else, so the "for the children" argument doesn't really work on me, and is often used as the basis for some truly heinous shit.

Third, even if I WERE the sort of person that worked on, I'd put forth for consideration that an 11 month old is not the one that's gonna be the most useful for a rhetoric vessel. Perhaps something that's more than a babbling shit and piss factory, maybe something old enough to have a personality.

Retribution, as you put it, is neither necessary nor moral in my view. The morality aside, I'm curious how it could be "necessary" in any sense of the word?

To get the person out of society? Prison does that.

To discourage other people from doing it? It's been well-demonstrated that capital punishment is not an effective deterrent.

To satisfy bloodlust stemming from an emotional response? Ahhhh, yes. There we go.

Here's a fun one for you: What if the parent of the kid is the one who has to actually look into the eyes of and kill the offender while he's shackled and defenseless? I don't have any evidence to support my guess, but I bet most people wouldn't do it.
cavete terrae.

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First off I would not have an 11 month old daughter and if by some hellacious set of circumstances I did, I wouldn't see her or know anything about her after she went up for adoption.

...

Third, even if I WERE the sort of person that worked on, I'd put forth for consideration that an 11 month old is not the one that's gonna be the most useful for a rhetoric vessel. Perhaps something that's more than a babbling shit and piss factory, maybe something old enough to have a personality.

Did your mother ever recover from giving birth to a full grown 30 year old (or whatever age qualifies as a human being in your eyes)?

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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GeorgiaDon

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First off I would not have an 11 month old daughter and if by some hellacious set of circumstances I did, I wouldn't see her or know anything about her after she went up for adoption.

...

Third, even if I WERE the sort of person that worked on, I'd put forth for consideration that an 11 month old is not the one that's gonna be the most useful for a rhetoric vessel. Perhaps something that's more than a babbling shit and piss factory, maybe something old enough to have a personality.

Did your mother ever recover from giving birth to a full grown 30 year old (or whatever age qualifies as a human being in your eyes)?

Don



See? It's too easy to rile people up with the subject of children. That's my whole point :P
cavete terrae.

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grue

***I 95% agree. But what should be done with prisoners who kill?



Stop putting them in contact with people, I suppose.

Unfortunately, that is also considered torture in most, shall we say, "enlightened" countries. So it really isn't an option or you end up with cause celebres like Tom Silverstein.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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lawrocket

******I 95% agree. But what should be done with prisoners who kill?



Stop putting them in contact with people, I suppose.

Unfortunately, that is also considered torture in most, shall we say, "enlightened" countries. So it really isn't an option or you end up with cause celebres like Tom Silverstein.

Yeah I should have gone back and edited the post to note PHYSICAL contact. No reason they couldn't have social contact without being able to touch/kill other people.
cavete terrae.

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rehmwa

***(that said, if a inmate asks for the firing squad as practiced in Utah in the past, I have no objections. I believe they shoot for the chest, however)



chest vs head? sounds much more painful for the criminal. And I don't see how a closed or open casket has anything to do with the stock 'torture/vengeance meme'....


I'm a big fan of 'death by snu-snu'

RDX.

(Kidding... I agree with kallend on this one.)

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grue

*********I 95% agree. But what should be done with prisoners who kill?



Stop putting them in contact with people, I suppose.

Unfortunately, that is also considered torture in most, shall we say, "enlightened" countries. So it really isn't an option or you end up with cause celebres like Tom Silverstein.

Yeah I should have gone back and edited the post to note PHYSICAL contact. No reason they couldn't have social contact without being able to touch/kill other people.

But then you Clarence Ray Allen. He, to me, is why I can't be ahainst capital punishment in all circumstances. He arranged to have witnesses murdered from behind bars. 3 people killed while he was serving a life sentence.

I think capital punishment should be saved for those who kill while imprisoned because they've shown that others - even those in society - aren't safe even with them ib prison.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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lawrocket



But then you Clarence Ray Allen. He, to me, is why I can't be ahainst capital punishment in all circumstances. He arranged to have witnesses murdered from behind bars. 3 people killed while he was serving a life sentence.

I think capital punishment should be saved for those who kill while imprisoned because they've shown that others - even those in society - aren't safe even with them ib prison.



I don't really have a counterpoint to this, actually. That's a hard situation.
cavete terrae.

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kelpdiver

******you needlessly force a closed casket funeral, which seems like you're straying towards dancing on the body.



It wasn't needless - it was the carrying out of justice.


That's you speaking emotionally again.

You can execute a person without tearing up the body. It is not necessary (the corresponding word to needless).

Surely, quickly and painlessly and now thanks to scared drug companies without prescription drugs?
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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I think capital punishment should be saved for those who kill while imprisoned because they've shown that others - even those in society - aren't safe even with them in prison.



Don't forget cop killers.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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It also wouldn't be the most difficult thing in the universe to design a prison wherein prisoners can see and talk to each other if they choose, but not touch or attack, while also affording some level of privacy if they choose.



Motel 6 ~ we'll leave a light on for ya! :ph34r:










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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airtwardo

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I think capital punishment should be saved for those who kill while imprisoned because they've shown that others - even those in society - aren't safe even with them in prison.



Don't forget cop killers.



Gonna have to disagree with that. There are plenty of completely acceptable reasons to kill a cop (no-knock warrant served on the wrong house in the middle of the night being the most common one), and it's hard enough to keep people out of prison even with those.
cavete terrae.

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grue

***
There are those 1% of the time when I have no issue with it. This is one of those times. They were a young 19 year old girl and an 11 month old baby. If she was your 11 month old child; you would want what? Imagine this fucker takes your 11 month old daughter and tortures her by raping her and then kills her.

Oh, let's just lock him up and throw away the key. Yeah, I'm sure that would be your response. Retribution for those who cannot defend themselves is not an emotional response; it is a necessary and moral act.



I disagree.

First off I would not have an 11 month old daughter and if by some hellacious set of circumstances I did, I wouldn't see her or know anything about her after she went up for adoption.

Second, I genuinely don't place the lives of children above anyone else, so the "for the children" argument doesn't really work on me, and is often used as the basis for some truly heinous shit.

Third, even if I WERE the sort of person that worked on, I'd put forth for consideration that an 11 month old is not the one that's gonna be the most useful for a rhetoric vessel. Perhaps something that's more than a babbling shit and piss factory, maybe something old enough to have a personality.

Retribution, as you put it, is neither necessary nor moral in my view. The morality aside, I'm curious how it could be "necessary" in any sense of the word?

To get the person out of society? Prison does that.

To discourage other people from doing it? It's been well-demonstrated that capital punishment is not an effective deterrent.

To satisfy bloodlust stemming from an emotional response? Ahhhh, yes. There we go.

Here's a fun one for you: What if the parent of the kid is the one who has to actually look into the eyes of and kill the offender while he's shackled and defenseless? I don't have any evidence to support my guess, but I bet most people wouldn't do it.


Yet, you'll step on a cockroach for no other reason than to kill it?
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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Choosing which species to eliminate is a long held value.

For those who style themselves as pro life... it seems they only lean to Pro Fetus.. once a human being is out of the mother... that human is on their own with those who claim to be right to life.

Sorry but pro life needs to be pro child... do not starve the child
Pro life needs to be pro education of the child.. so they do not end up being douche bag young adults.
Pro life seems to also equal Pro war... cause those other humans are evil lets kill em all...

And Pro life really seems to mean... pro vengeance and good Old Testament an eye for an eye retribution including the state administered murder of human beings.

A lot less douche bags would get to be douchebags.. if that whole pro life childhood would have been administered by civilized human beings.

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Coreece

***liberal Jesus



Um...He said give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's. He never said give it all to Caesar...;)

YOUR Caesar brothers are demanding it all ....maybe an honorable Praetorian will come forward.

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Amazon

YOUR Caesar brothers



By the humble grace of the moderators here, we have both been granted a second life here in SC. Please don't crucify it with personal attacks...:P

Luv ya sugar mama...muh!
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

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Coreece

***YOUR Caesar brothers



By the humble grace of the moderators here, we have both been granted a second life here in SC. Please don't crucify it with personal attacks...:P

Luv ya sugar mama...muh!

In case you have not been paying attention... the Oligarchs have won. Almost all has already been rendered unto the hallowed Patricians by the well greased palms of the senatorial class.

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RobertMBlevins

******liberal Jesus



Um...He said give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's. He never said give it all to Caesar...;)

That quote from the New Testament basically refers to paying taxes and obeying the law...not going along with societal-sponsored murder.

Oh, ya...me must've got off track here in the SC, go figure...

...anyway, my state was the first to abolish the death penalty...what's the hold up with you guys in Washington?
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

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