turtlespeed 212 #76 April 12, 2014 masterrig From what I've read on this matter, a special interest group wants the cattle off of BLM land so as to protect some turtle that shares that land. Chuck What are you tryiong to say, huh . . . HUH? HUH? I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dupah1000 0 #77 April 12, 2014 US Government land isn't free. You got to pay your way in this life unless you're one of those dysfunctionals who let the Government pay for your way through life. Bust him! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #78 April 12, 2014 I won't disagree with any of what you've said. From talking with land owners, I'll put it this way, they've been known to use 'questionable' methods in their acquiring land. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtiflyer 0 #79 April 12, 2014 masterrigFrom what I've read on this matter, a special interest group wants the cattle off of BLM land so as to protect some turtle that shares that land. To me, those cows and turtles have been co-existing for a long time. Why now, all the fuss. Cows don't eat turtles! Also, a very small number of ranchers graze their cattle on BLM land. Of that number, some are 'hobby ranchers'. They lease or pay fees to graze BLM land. This rancher has been turned-down by two federal courts. I am very much in support of honest ranchers who work hard to make a living but in this case, this 'rancher' sounds like he feels he is 'entitled' to graze his cattle in that area. It pains me to say this but the BLM appears to be in the right. Ranchers in Western Montana have leased grazing land from the BLM with no problem. Grazing land is being bought-up to amount to millions of acres each year for urban sprawl. BLM lands are a last resort for grazing. Chuck Technically the land is owned by the state of Nevada and controlled/maintained by the BLM. Not sure if the state of Nevada has asked the BLM to handle this situation or if the Feds jumped in. There are reports of the confiscated cattle either being killed and buried where they are found, or immediately being sold at auction. Either way, is that destruction of property? Even if he was found guilty isn't evidence/property supposed to be kept around until all appeals are exhausted? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #81 April 12, 2014 jtiflyer***From what I've read on this matter, a special interest group wants the cattle off of BLM land so as to protect some turtle that shares that land. To me, those cows and turtles have been co-existing for a long time. Why now, all the fuss. Cows don't eat turtles! Also, a very small number of ranchers graze their cattle on BLM land. Of that number, some are 'hobby ranchers'. They lease or pay fees to graze BLM land. This rancher has been turned-down by two federal courts. I am very much in support of honest ranchers who work hard to make a living but in this case, this 'rancher' sounds like he feels he is 'entitled' to graze his cattle in that area. It pains me to say this but the BLM appears to be in the right. Ranchers in Western Montana have leased grazing land from the BLM with no problem. Grazing land is being bought-up to amount to millions of acres each year for urban sprawl. BLM lands are a last resort for grazing. Chuck Technically the land is owned by the state of Nevada and controlled/maintained by the BLM. Not sure if the state of Nevada has asked the BLM to handle this situation or if the Feds jumped in. There are reports of the confiscated cattle either being killed and buried where they are found, or immediately being sold at auction. Either way, is that destruction of property? Even if he was found guilty isn't evidence/property supposed to be kept around until all appeals are exhausted? Even if sold, 900 head of cattle won't pay the debt of 1.1 mil. It'll come close. If those reports have any truth to them, seems to me, the BLM is guilty of cattle theft and destruction of private property. No one, not even the BLM has a right to do that. I'll say one thing, I respect Mr. Bundy for standing-up for what he believes in! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #82 April 12, 2014 jtiflyer Even if he was found guilty isn't evidence/property supposed to be kept around until all appeals are exhausted? those poor cows would be dead or worthless...this case has already been going on for 21 years! If auctioned, the money could be held in arrears, or paid back with interest at the point of resolution. If the defendant was victorious he could also petition for a higher valuation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtiflyer 0 #83 April 12, 2014 kelpdiver*** Even if he was found guilty isn't evidence/property supposed to be kept around until all appeals are exhausted? those poor cows would be dead or worthless...this case has already been going on for 21 years! If auctioned, the money could be held in arrears, or paid back with interest at the point of resolution. If the defendant was victorious he could also petition for a higher valuation. good info, thats why i was asking. Not sure how relevant this is. But there were reports of drilling looking for oil, and recent sales of BLM controlled land to power companies for fracking. Would seem to make sense why the BLM is in such a fit over this. If they have a buyer lined up this rancher is keeping them from there payday. No links at the moment to help this theory. I will need to keep digging. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #84 April 12, 2014 kelpdiver*** Even if he was found guilty isn't evidence/property supposed to be kept around until all appeals are exhausted? those poor cows would be dead or worthless...this case has already been going on for 21 years! If auctioned, the money could be held in arrears, or paid back with interest at the point of resolution. If the defendant was victorious he could also petition for a higher valuation. Higher than market price? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #85 April 12, 2014 > isn't evidence/property supposed to be kept around until all appeals are exhausted? Given that this has been going on for 20 years now - some of them would be pretty ripe by now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #86 April 12, 2014 masterrig If auctioned, the money could be held in arrears, or paid back with interest at the point of resolution. If the defendant was victorious he could also petition for a higher valuation. Higher than market price? Liquidation generally doesn't get you market price, nor does it get you their potential future value. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #87 April 12, 2014 jtiflyer good info, thats why i was asking. Not sure how relevant this is. But there were reports of drilling looking for oil, and recent sales of BLM controlled land to power companies for fracking. Would seem to make sense why the BLM is in such a fit over this. If they have a buyer lined up this rancher is keeping them from there payday. No links at the moment to help this theory. I will need to keep digging. It's a pretty far fetched notion, particularly since I don't see a conflict between granting fracking rights and grazing rights to the spare grass on top. And fracking was not viable at 1993 oil prices, even if the extraction knowledge was already developed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #88 April 12, 2014 billvon Do you support violent thugs, or the rule of law? Do you have the same respect for the rule of law when it comes to immigration enforcement or ACA implementation?You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #89 April 12, 2014 kelpdiver*** If auctioned, the money could be held in arrears, or paid back with interest at the point of resolution. If the defendant was victorious he could also petition for a higher valuation. Higher than market price? Liquidation generally doesn't get you market price, nor does it get you their potential future value. You said that if the defendant was victorious he could petition for a higher valuation. I had just never heard that before and was curious about your statement. Usually, they might get .50 cents on the dollar... if they're lucky. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #90 April 12, 2014 TFR over the area now: http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_4_1687.html"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #91 April 12, 2014 ryoderTFR over the area now: http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_4_1687.html Well, that's a start. At least we have GPS coordinates of the "event" location. 36º46'24"N 114º11'13"W Wish we had the same over the land in dispute.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #92 April 12, 2014 >Do you have the same respect for the rule of law when it comes to immigration >enforcement or ACA implementation? In general, yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #93 April 12, 2014 ABC News says BLM has backed off: http://abcnews.go.com/US/nevada-cattle-rancher-wins-range-war-federal-government/story?id=23302610"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 0 #94 April 12, 2014 ryoderABC News says BLM has backed off: http://abcnews.go.com/US/nevada-cattle-rancher-wins-range-war-federal-government/story?id=23302610 They probably spotted Militia elements moving into position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #95 April 12, 2014 PiLFy***ABC News says BLM has backed off: http://abcnews.go.com/US/nevada-cattle-rancher-wins-range-war-federal-government/story?id=23302610 They probably spotted Militia elements moving into position. They probably realized it's easier to deal with an "angry mob" when it has to leave to go back to work on Monday.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #96 April 13, 2014 This is likely to be what's really going on. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-03/solar-jobs-join-harry-reid-to-chinese-billionaire-in-price-drop.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 0 #97 April 13, 2014 quade ******ABC News says BLM has backed off: http://abcnews.go.com/US/nevada-cattle-rancher-wins-range-war-federal-government/story?id=23302610 They probably spotted Militia elements moving into position. They probably realized it's easier to deal with an "angry mob" when it has to leave to go back to work on Monday. They're not a Mob, & will gladly miss a day of work ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 0 #98 April 13, 2014 Gravitymaster This is likely to be what's really going on. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-03/solar-jobs-join-harry-reid-to-chinese-billionaire-in-price-drop.html http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/13/us-usa-ranchers-nevada-idUSBREA3B03Q20140413 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #99 April 13, 2014 http://www.infowars.com/feds-back-down-from-bundy-siege-after-infowars-expose-of-chinese-land-grab/ Quote Feds Back Down From Bundy Siege After Infowars Exposé of Chinese Land Grab"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #100 April 13, 2014 PiLFy ***This is likely to be what's really going on. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-03/solar-jobs-join-harry-reid-to-chinese-billionaire-in-price-drop.html http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/13/us-usa-ranchers-nevada-idUSBREA3B03Q20140413 YESSSSSSSSSS!!! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
