Feds lay siege to Nevada ranch

[masterrig 1]

Boogers

Here's another BLM land grab underway that will hurt ranchers:

"Oklahoma-Texas border dispute has ranchers worried"
http://www.rfdtv.com/story/25206377/oklahoma-texas-border-dispute-has-ranchers-worried

I heard that this morning on the Ag. report. That's how the BLM works... they want a piece of land... they take it. They tie-up the owner in the courts till he's broke and 'bingo' the land is theirs. As I've said before, we are losing farm and ranch land to urban sprawl on a daily basis. Without grazing land and farm land, farmers and ranchers will go out of business. Where do the 'thugs' at the BLM think they are going to get their food? I am all for conservation and taking care of the land but taking land from rightful owners by intimidation and thuggery is just against all that is right.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

Glitch

And I'm sure THIS has nothing at all to do with it....

There's generally more than two sides to every story, and there appears to be enuff blame to go around. This being said, I would hope/think the actions of a Federal agency would should be above reproach.

Who put the guy in charge of the BLM? They both need to be put behind bars.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

Boogers

***this whole thing is about a turtle that was put on the endangered list....

Hey, just had a brilliant idea: Let's put a bunch of those turtles on the border with Mexico, and then the Feds will rush all their law enforcement assets to the border region to protect the turtles by finally stopping the illegal immigration. Do it for the turtles!

I like your thinking!


Chuck

[rhaig 0]

kelpdiver

So how young should he be before we shouldn't ignore the problem and wait for him to die?

Depends. Do the financial analysis. Which is costing more. Letting the guy rack up a bill, with fines and interest and when he dies take it out of his estate, or the constant legal battles and potential for violent confrontation. Take that over the remaining time of his expected life, and do the simple math. Which costs more?

--
Rob

[Amazon 7]

masterrig

***I think you're pretty close.

Sounds like he has some sort of constitutional issue with the feds owning the property and making payment to them as opposed to local ownership and payment by and to the county.
Which sounds pretty odd.
I'd be curious to know what started this.



Also of note, a simply JFGI of Clark County, NV really turns up nothing of interest.
I got bored with grazing through the links after 6 pages of nothing.

Ranchers in other states who graze cattle on BLM land pay a fee and so should Bundy. He's been to federal court twice on this and turned-down by the courts both times. Bundy seems to think he is entitled to graze his cattle because his ancestors did. That was before the BLM took ownership of the land. Besides, in that country, it takes 100 acres to graze one cow. I wouldn't be fighting to graze that land. Clark County really, has no say in this matter. It's government land that happens to be in Clark County. Kinda like an Air Force Base in a county.


Chuck

Most of the land just to the north of him is USAF ranges and that frequently gets the shit blown out of it. I wonder if they got waivers for the torti there.

[masterrig 1]

Amazon

******I think you're pretty close.

Sounds like he has some sort of constitutional issue with the feds owning the property and making payment to them as opposed to local ownership and payment by and to the county.
Which sounds pretty odd.
I'd be curious to know what started this.



Also of note, a simply JFGI of Clark County, NV really turns up nothing of interest.
I got bored with grazing through the links after 6 pages of nothing.

Ranchers in other states who graze cattle on BLM land pay a fee and so should Bundy. He's been to federal court twice on this and turned-down by the courts both times. Bundy seems to think he is entitled to graze his cattle because his ancestors did. That was before the BLM took ownership of the land. Besides, in that country, it takes 100 acres to graze one cow. I wouldn't be fighting to graze that land. Clark County really, has no say in this matter. It's government land that happens to be in Clark County. Kinda like an Air Force Base in a county.


Chuck

Most of the land just to the north of him is USAF ranges and that frequently gets the shit blown out of it. I wonder if they got waivers for the torti there.

Not no but hell no! Besides... the Air Force has bigger weapons.


Chuck

[kelpdiver 2]

rhaig

***
So how young should he be before we shouldn't ignore the problem and wait for him to die?

Depends. Do the financial analysis. Which is costing more. Letting the guy rack up a bill, with fines and interest and when he dies take it out of his estate, or the constant legal battles and potential for violent confrontation. Take that over the remaining time of his expected life, and do the simple math. Which costs more?

By that logic, we should never prosecute a mugger because the cost of imprisoning him far exceeds the damage he does to his victims.

Are we all having a blonde moment understanding what law enforcement means? 'Wait and take it out of his estate is the stupidest fucking thing I've heard all week.'

[GoHuskers 0]

Amazon

Most of the land just to the north of him is USAF ranges and that frequently gets the shit blown out of it. I wonder if they got waivers for the torti there.

Military Training Reservations do have significant environmental restrictions that they have to follow.
The 2 bases at which I've spent the majority of my time have an issue with areas around the training base that were unused 50 years ago have been developed pushing species into the training reservation and making their numbers dwindle into endangered species territory.
It definitely has an impact on training.

[rhaig 0]

kelpdiver

******
So how young should he be before we shouldn't ignore the problem and wait for him to die?

Depends. Do the financial analysis. Which is costing more. Letting the guy rack up a bill, with fines and interest and when he dies take it out of his estate, or the constant legal battles and potential for violent confrontation. Take that over the remaining time of his expected life, and do the simple math. Which costs more?

By that logic, we should never prosecute a mugger because the cost of imprisoning him far exceeds the damage he does to his victims.

Are we all having a blonde moment understanding what law enforcement means? 'Wait and take it out of his estate is the stupidest fucking thing I've heard all week.'

You're not taking into account the financial impact of not enforcing the law. I left all that out wholly expecting you to extend the factors to include public perception of lawlessness and what that would cause in the short to mid term.

Why so short sighted?voice>

--
Rob

[rhaig 0]

bottom line is it doesn't matter. We are a rule-of-law society. The absurd financial impact analysis statement I made is what we are coming to as we are ruled by corporations owning lobbyists who are writing legislation and buying politicians to vote for it.

The laws say he owes $$$, the judge says he owes $$$, if he's not willing to pay, then they need to arrest him.

--
Rob

[zoobrothertom 5]

Just replying at random.

He claims his family has been using that land since around 1870 without problems. BLM gets created, steals the land from the county and poof! He's the last of 50 odd ranchers that used to use the land that the county used to own.

I read something about he used to pay until 1993 when it became clear the BLM was pushing the ranchers off the land.

Such fun....

____________________________________
I'm back in the USA!!

[jclalor 12]

Quote

"My ancestors created the rights to that land 100 and some odd years ago," Bailey Logue said. "And we're not giving them up."

There must be a few Native Americans laughing hysterically at that one.

[quade 3]

Iago

If he owes money they can attach his assets.

Isn't that exactly what's happening? Aren't cattle a rancher's asset?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rhaig 0]

Iago

We don't have debtors prison in the USA. If he owes money they can attach his assets. Now if BLM has an injunction against him grazing on BLM land thats a different story.

I think the whole thing is a bit silly anyways.

he's been to court and was ordered to pay. He was told to remove his cattle or BLM would do it for him. This isn't debtors prison. This is failure to follow a lawful order of a judge. (or whatever legal specificities that were involved in the original ruling)

--
Rob

[Boogers 0]

kelpdiver

*********
The guy is 67 years old. Just ignore his defiance, and he'll die off soon enough on his own. Then you can go get his cattle peacefully.

It's not very practical to apply legal responses based on the age of the person in question.

It's also not very reasonable to escalate to deadly force over cows and turtles.

Are they worth the deaths of citizens and law officers?

But they're not escalating to deadly force (has a shot been fired?), and they didn't do it over cows and turtles, they did it after 20 years of due process and over a million dollars in arrears. People get evicted from apartments by armed Sheriffs for much much less.

So how young should he be before we shouldn't ignore the problem and wait for him to die?

Just because shots haven't been fired yet doesn't mean they won't be. Did you make the same claim when federal troops were surrounding the Koresh community home?

There are large numbers of armed federal troops. There are large numbers of citizens protesting their presence. There are reports of armed militias heading that way. Sounds like a confrontation between armed groups to me, with a liklihood of gunfire.

Will the government back down? Of course not. Those pesky citizens have to be taught that absolute obedience is required. Even if it means killing them.

How about a non-violent way to end this standoff? How come nobody is talking about that possibility. All anyone wants to do is prove who has the biggest balls.

How about the government put a lien on the rancher's land, and then leave him alone. When he dies, the assets are sold, and the lien is satisfied. The government gets their money, and no one dies.

Nah, that'll never work.

Bring on the tanks and tear gas!

[Boogers 0]

billvon

>Here's another BLM land grab underway that will hurt ranchers:

Yep. We should ignore the law and let thugs take whatever they want.

Right, ranchers are "thugs" for wanting to keep the land they've always had. Keep up that demonization so that the eventual shootout by the feds will sound justified. Oh, and be sure to also call their home a "compound", their guns an "arsenal", and their supportive friends a "militia". Yeah, that's the ticket!

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

How about a non-violent way to end this standoff? How come nobody is talking about that possibility. All anyone wants to do is prove who has the biggest balls.

You mean like tact and diplomacy?

What are you, a Liberal?

[Boogers 0]

kelpdiver

Are we all having a blonde moment understanding what law enforcement means? 'Wait and take it out of his estate is the stupidest fucking thing I've heard all week.'

What happens when a homeowner doesn't pay his property taxes? Do we surround his home with armed police and threaten him with violence? No, we just put a lien on his home, and at some point in the future when the home is sold, the back taxes due are taken from the proceeds of the sale.

Ah, but that just doesn't make you feel good about enforcing the law against "thugs", does it? Bring on the snipers!

[normiss 620]

Why in the world does BLM need military type police in the first place?
They must manage some real tough land!

[Boogers 0]

rhaig

The laws say he owes $$$, the judge says he owes $$$, if he's not willing to pay, then they need to arrest him.

Okay, so wait until he drives into town to buy a gallon of milk, and catch him then. That would be less dangerous than surrounding his home with law officers and facing a horde of angry citizens.

Have we learned nothing since Waco and Ruby Ridge?

I just wonder if all this blood lust from the liberals here would still apply if it was instead a liberal home owner standing up against the government, rather than a conservative.

[quade 3]

normiss

Why in the world does BLM need military type police in the first place?
They must manage some real tough land!

Actually, they do and quite a bit of it is infested with meth heads and other criminals who use it as if it belonged to them personally as opposed to the US in general. Additionally, some BLM land adjoins other more sensitive land and the BLM gets involved with patrolling to ensure those areas aren't encroached upon by everything from curiosity seekers to actual spies of foreign governments.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[normiss 620]

How many layers of police force with military type weapons do we need????

There are other federal agencies tasked with those same things you mention, why not use them for the job they were created for?

[quade 3]

normiss

How many layers of police force with military type weapons do we need????

There are other federal agencies tasked with those same things you mention, why not use them for the job they were created for?

Hmmm...I thought AR-15s were hunting rifles.

I could swear people keep saying that.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[normiss 620]

So we're gonna cherry pick to steer the conversation?

Can I please have a weapons equipped helicopter dangling snipers out the door too?
Those brand spanking new urban assault vehicles look pretty cool too, shame diesel is so damned expensive.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

quade

***How many layers of police force with military type weapons do we need????

There are other federal agencies tasked with those same things you mention, why not use them for the job they were created for?

Hmmm...I thought AR-15s were hunting rifles.

I could swear people keep saying that.

I'm going to guess that those are M-16s, not AR-15s.

Very similar in appearance (and very similar period), but the M16 is select fire, capable of full automatic fire (or 3 round burst, depending on model).

They fall under the National Firearms Act of 1934, and are very tightly regulated for civilians.

Not so much with cops.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo