Voter issues? Nah, they dont exist do they......

[billvon 2,396]

>I'm unfamiliar with the factual basis for the argument that people will fail to
>exercise their right to vote if they have to show ID. Has anyone tested this?

The Disproportionate Impact of Voter-ID Requirements on the Electorate—New Evidence from Indiana

Matt A. Barreto, University of Washington
Stephen A. Nuño, Northern Arizona University
Gabriel R. Sanchez, University of New Mexico
=============
The results in
Indiana are consistent with findings of Barreto, Nuño, and
Sanchez (2007), who also found that minority, low-income,
and less-educated residents are less likely to have access to
valid photo identification across three states. Table 4 illustrates
that across all three states in the 2006 study, California,
New Mexico, andWashington, whites were more likely to have
driver’s licenses than non-whites. Similarly, middle-aged voters
were more likely to have access than elderly voters, and
higher-income voters were more likely to have driver’s licenses
than lower-income voters. Thus, the new findings for Indiana
are not an anomaly, but rather, quite consistent with the ID
access rates in other diverse states across the U.S. This implies
that the Indiana voting laws significantly reduce the opportunity
to vote for these segments of the state electorate.
==================

[RonD1120 58]

rushmc

***35000 out of a claimed 101 million voter records? you mean..... 0.03%?

say it isn't so......That surely a reason to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on voter ID systems, purge legal voters from voting records and make it difficult for millions more to exercise constitutional rights.

If that is a reason for voter ID laws at that small a margin, then the margin/stats of gun homicides in this country should surely be a valid reason for removing those Constitutional rights as well.

Right?

Actually the 101 million was the records of voters in 28 states. The 35K issues was within NC voter roles alone

But, in the end, one is too many
And the oprotunity needs to be closed
And states are doing just that and the SC is backing this move

I listened to two lawyers from western NC, our neighbor, discuss this problem on the radio yesterday. The problem in NC was actually greater than 35K. The instances of same first and last names, same birth date, same last four SSN, voting in another state beside NC in the last general election was greater than 155K.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

RonD1120

I listened to two lawyers from western NC, our neighbor, discuss this problem on the radio yesterday. The problem in NC was actually greater than 35K. The instances of same first and last names, same birth date, same last four SSN, voting in another state beside NC in the last general election was greater than 155K.

Greater? Or smaller?

The 35k figure quoted in the OP is of people who were registered in NC, but recorded a vote elsewhere.

The actual number of people who were recorded voting in NC and voting elsewhere was...


765.

Not 35,000.
Not 155,000

765.

I have been registered to vote in more than one place several times in my life.
After moving back to my hometown, I went to re-register to vote in an upcoming election. I had lived in a nearby town for a few years.
I was still registered at my old address.

When I moved back to the nearby town (where I still live), I found that I had never "unregistered" there either. In both cases, a simple address change updated my registration.

I'm probably still registered in my hometown. I never took any steps to "unregister" there.

I have never cast more than one vote in an election.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Amazon 7]

Isn't it amazing that with all that voter fraud by old people, young people and minorities that any Conservative Old White guys ever get elected in the South???

[davjohns 1]

billvon

>I'm unfamiliar with the factual basis for the argument that people will fail to
>exercise their right to vote if they have to show ID. Has anyone tested this?

The Disproportionate Impact of Voter-ID Requirements on the Electorate—New Evidence from Indiana

Matt A. Barreto, University of Washington
Stephen A. Nuño, Northern Arizona University
Gabriel R. Sanchez, University of New Mexico
=============
The results in
Indiana are consistent with findings of Barreto, Nuño, and
Sanchez (2007), who also found that minority, low-income,
and less-educated residents are less likely to have access to
valid photo identification across three states. Table 4 illustrates
that across all three states in the 2006 study, California,
New Mexico, andWashington, whites were more likely to have
driver’s licenses than non-whites. Similarly, middle-aged voters
were more likely to have access than elderly voters, and
higher-income voters were more likely to have driver’s licenses
than lower-income voters. Thus, the new findings for Indiana
are not an anomaly, but rather, quite consistent with the ID
access rates in other diverse states across the U.S. This implies
that the Indiana voting laws significantly reduce the opportunity
to vote for these segments of the state electorate.
==================

I appreciate the attempt. Sadly, it doesn't address actual voters. It references poor, uneducated minorities...which could easily be illegal aliens that aren't supposed to voting. That would also explain their difficulty getting ID. Then, it makes a leap of inference that this effects voting rates. Worse, it expresses a bias. The factual statement is that the ID is less available. It doesn't say by how much or assign any numbers. But in the (leap of inference) conclusion, it causes a "significant" reduction in voting opportunity.

Again, I have to wonder how the people cited in that scenario survive without a job or government benefits, but are registered voters. It doesn't strike you as odd?

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[billvon 2,396]

>Again, I have to wonder how the people cited in that scenario survive without a
>job or government benefits, but are registered voters. It doesn't strike you as
>odd?

Nope. Lots of college kids, stay at home moms and dads, and retirees out there.

[toolbox 0]

Again, I have to wonder how the people cited in that scenario survive without a job or government benefits, but are registered voters. It doesn't strike you as odd?


It is very odd indeed! If you are a US citizen of legal age then it is no problem to get a state issued ID,even if you are on government assistance,since the government will provide you with ID free if you are in the welfare system.
Lets face it,state issued ID is available to everyone in the US,and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg either,all it takes is being a legal citizen.
If you are a legal alien visitor then you have a green card that proves who you are and from where you are from but doesn't allow you to vote right?
Either way,if you are here as a citizen or a legal visitor you have access to ID,and if visiting must be able to present ID at anytime right?
So why would anyone who is above board be against presenting ID proving you are a citizen to enjoy the right to vote?

[Southern_Man 0]

toolbox

It is very odd indeed! If you are a US citizen of legal age then it is no problem to get a state issued ID,even if you are on government assistance,since the government will provide you with ID free if you are in the welfare system.

Where the hell did you get that idea?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[davjohns 1]

billvon

>Again, I have to wonder how the people cited in that scenario survive without a
>job or government benefits, but are registered voters. It doesn't strike you as
>odd?

Nope. Lots of college kids, stay at home moms and dads, and retirees out there.

I'm not sure where they are going to college. Not only did I have to have ID to go to each of my schools, the school issued me another photo ID. Stay at home moms and dads would almost make sense, except they would have to NOT be on public assistance to meet my criteria...so how do they have the means to stay at home? Retirees are just right out. That means they had a job, could fill out an I-9, and have ID (not to mention pension, bank account, etc. that require ID)

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[jclalor 12]

Amazon

Isn't it amazing that with all that voter fraud by old people, young people and minorities that any Conservative Old White guys ever get elected in the South???

But this is different, they dun put themselves a colored boy in that there White House.

[toolbox 0]

But this is different, they dun put themselves a colored boy in that there White House.

This has nothing to do with color,but I know that it's classic liberal tactics to call anyone who refuses to drink their koolaid a bigot.

[toolbox 0]

I'm not sure where they are going to college. Not only did I have to have ID to go to each of my schools, the school issued me another photo ID. Stay at home moms and dads would almost make sense, except they would have to NOT be on public assistance to meet my criteria...so how do they have the means to stay at home? Retirees are just right out. That means they had a job, could fill out an I-9, and have ID (not to mention pension, bank account, etc. that require ID)

Right!

[Amazon 7]

toolbox

But this is different, they dun put themselves a colored boy in that there White House.

This has nothing to do with color,but I know that it's classic liberal tactics to call anyone who refuses to drink their koolaid a bigot.

Do you REALLY believe that the GOP attempts to suppress votes in the places they are passing laws .. many time unconstitutional as ruled by the courts.. has nothing to do about minorities that the GOP message does not "resonate with"????

I guess the many districts that are heavily GOP controlled have the newest and the highest numbers of polling places and voting machines lead to very short lines and a breeze to vote ... while minority polling places on the other side of town have the broken machines.. the old machines.. lower numbers of booths.. and on and on... and lines that take 6 hours to get thru... is a true reflection of American Values....
If so you might be a member of the GOP Base

[Amazon 7]

toolbox

I'm not sure where they are going to college. Not only did I have to have ID to go to each of my schools, the school issued me another photo ID. Stay at home moms and dads would almost make sense, except they would have to NOT be on public assistance to meet my criteria...so how do they have the means to stay at home? Retirees are just right out. That means they had a job, could fill out an I-9, and have ID (not to mention pension, bank account, etc. that require ID)

Right!

So why did so many states with GOP control of the Governors office and gerrymandered majorities in the state house and senate.. mandate that most forms of ID that had been used for decades were not valid like Student ID's....

I have a simple solution.. a Social Security card with your photo on it.. FREE to every Murican....


BOOOOOOOM the fringe rights heads just exploded.... after several seconds of sputtering about BIG BROTHER taking over.

[billvon 2,396]

>Stay at home moms and dads would almost make sense, except they would have
>to NOT be on public assistance to meet my criteria...so how do they have the
>means to stay at home?

In many families, one person works while the other stays at home.

> Retirees are just right out. That means they had a job, could fill out an I-9, and
>have ID (not to mention pension, bank account, etc. that require ID)

That means they HAD ID. Many of them no longer have licenses and do most of their banking/financial work from home.

In all cases it doesn't matter that you think that MOST people in those categories should have ID. The point is that ALL people don't have it and thus you are disenfranchising these people. (And as several people have admitted, the reason for doing this is specifically to deny certain voters the right to vote in order to sway elections.)

[rehmwa 2]

billvon

>In all cases it doesn't matter that you think that MOST people in those categories should have ID. The point is that ALL people don't have it and thus you are disenfranchising these people. (And as several people have admitted, the reason for doing this is specifically to deny certain voters the right to vote in order to sway elections.)

I can sum up your position - alpha vs beta error

"We should make it ridiculously easy for illegal votes to disenfranchise legal voters. This is much better that making it mildly annoying for legal voters to take their right seriously enough to go get a free ID."

Who do you want disenfranchised? A crapload of legal voters that get their votes cancelled? or a handful of people that just don't give a crap enough to get a free ID practically handed to them?


Funny from someone that seems to side with those that tend to advocate that voters 'should' have to pass an IQ test or 'current events' (I read that as a political litmus) test to be allowed to vote at all? (though, honestly, Billvon, I don't think you've even sided with your buddies on that specific one. but that's the team you play with)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[davjohns 1]

Amazon

***I'm not sure where they are going to college. Not only did I have to have ID to go to each of my schools, the school issued me another photo ID. Stay at home moms and dads would almost make sense, except they would have to NOT be on public assistance to meet my criteria...so how do they have the means to stay at home? Retirees are just right out. That means they had a job, could fill out an I-9, and have ID (not to mention pension, bank account, etc. that require ID)

Right!

So why did so many states with GOP control of the Governors office and gerrymandered majorities in the state house and senate.. mandate that most forms of ID that had been used for decades were not valid like Student ID's....

I have a simple solution.. a Social Security card with your photo on it.. FREE to every Murican....


BOOOOOOOM the fringe rights heads just exploded.... after several seconds of sputtering about BIG BROTHER taking over.

I'm in. Sounds like you and I are on the same page now.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Amazon 7]

davjohns

******I'm not sure where they are going to college. Not only did I have to have ID to go to each of my schools, the school issued me another photo ID. Stay at home moms and dads would almost make sense, except they would have to NOT be on public assistance to meet my criteria...so how do they have the means to stay at home? Retirees are just right out. That means they had a job, could fill out an I-9, and have ID (not to mention pension, bank account, etc. that require ID)

Right!

So why did so many states with GOP control of the Governors office and gerrymandered majorities in the state house and senate.. mandate that most forms of ID that had been used for decades were not valid like Student ID's....

I have a simple solution.. a Social Security card with your photo on it.. FREE to every Murican....


BOOOOOOOM the fringe rights heads just exploded.... after several seconds of sputtering about BIG BROTHER taking over.

I'm in. Sounds like you and I are on the same page now.

Cool.. but remember you just entered into severe RINO territory from the American Taliban who want OTHERS to have to jump thru that hoop.. but I have seen very vociferous frothing at the mouth from those same people when someone brings up mandatory federal ID... references to the Mark of the Beast.... dogs and cats sleeping together.... Apocalyptic End of the world AntiChrist shit.

[davjohns 1]

billvon

>Stay at home moms and dads would almost make sense, except they would have
>to NOT be on public assistance to meet my criteria...so how do they have the
>means to stay at home?

In many families, one person works while the other stays at home.

> Retirees are just right out. That means they had a job, could fill out an I-9, and
>have ID (not to mention pension, bank account, etc. that require ID)

That means they HAD ID. Many of them no longer have licenses and do most of their banking/financial work from home.

In all cases it doesn't matter that you think that MOST people in those categories should have ID. The point is that ALL people don't have it and thus you are disenfranchising these people. (And as several people have admitted, the reason for doing this is specifically to deny certain voters the right to vote in order to sway elections.)

You're still not winning me over. If one of them is working, they have ID. So, they probably don't fit in the category of those poor people who can't get someplace to get and ID.

Being retired doesn't mean you drop out of life. Still need ID for so many things. And I don't see why the ID has to have an expiration on it. You assume that it does. State issued non-driver ID usually does not expire. No reason to.

Yes, some people would have to take some time out of their life to get a valid ID. Of course, according to your arguments, they aren't terribly busy. They don't have jobs.

Seems a very low price for keeping illegal voters from invalidating a legitimate vote.

What if we just go with Amazon's idea and put a photo on the SS card?

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Amazon 7]

I already have a version of that by the way... but the damn thing was spendy... issued by the Dept of State.

Passport Card.. something most Americans do not have... or have even friggin seen.

[davjohns 1]

I'm not a Republican by any name. Mostly Independent and ideologically Libertarian. I don't let parties decide my vote for me.

I happen to know what the Mark of the Beast looks like. It's not around anymore. But that's another story.

I don't see a problem with a national ID system. We already have it in SS numbers. Like you said; just add a pic and we're good.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

rehmwa

***>In all cases it doesn't matter that you think that MOST people in those categories should have ID. The point is that ALL people don't have it and thus you are disenfranchising these people. (And as several people have admitted, the reason for doing this is specifically to deny certain voters the right to vote in order to sway elections.)

I can sum up your position - alpha vs beta error

"We should make it ridiculously easy for illegal votes to disenfranchise legal voters. This is much better that making it mildly annoying for legal voters to take their right seriously enough to go get a free ID."

Who do you want disenfranchised? A crapload of legal voters that get their votes cancelled? or a handful of people that just don't give a crap enough to get a free ID practically handed to them?


Funny from someone that seems to side with those that tend to advocate that voters 'should' have to pass an IQ test or 'current events' (I read that as a political litmus) test to be allowed to vote at all? (though, honestly, Billvon, I don't think you've even sided with your buddies on that specific one. but that's the team you play with)

Except that there really is no evidence of any illegals voting, or voter fraud taking place.

It appears very likely that the pecentage of voter fraud is significantly below the margin of error of the actual voting process.

Why then is so much effort (and money) being spent to fix a problem that doesn't exist? I don't think you have to be overly skeptical to come to the conclusion that there are other reasons to do this.

[DanG 1]

Quote

Who do you want disenfranchised? A crapload of legal voters that get their votes cancelled? or a handful of people that just don't give a crap enough to get a free ID practically handed to them?

You might want to check your browser. The words "crapload" and "handful" appear to have been swapped in your post.

- Dan G

[davjohns 1]

SkyDekker

Except that there really is no evidence of any illegals voting, or voter fraud taking place.

It appears very likely that the pecentage of voter fraud is significantly below the margin of error of the actual voting process.

Why then is so much effort (and money) being spent to fix a problem that doesn't exist? I don't think you have to be overly skeptical to come to the conclusion that there are other reasons to do this.

So, there's no evidence of voter fraud? I'll file appeals for all those people convicted of it. Thanks.

But then you say the percentage of it is below the margin of error? I guess if there is none, and zero is less than the margin of error, you are consistent here.

Then, you say the problem doesn't exist. OK.

I don't care what political party or theory it might or might not benefit. I want to protect individual liberties by preventing illegal voters from cancelling out legal voters. Plain and simple.

BTW...if one party wants ID for political purposes, doesn't the other one oppose it for political purposes?

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[rehmwa 2]

DanG

Quote

Who do you want disenfranchised? A crapload of legal voters that get their votes cancelled? or a handful of people that just don't give a crap enough to get a free ID practically handed to them?

You might want to check your browser. The words "crapload" and "handful" appear to have been swapped in your post.

either way - I'm good with Amazon's proposal. It can be applied fairly to all and is not biased - vs the two alternatives which favor one party or the other


you'll have to rationalize your gripe with Billvon's statement "one single citizen" position of all or nothing - you guys can't argue in favor of one party the "all or nothing" for one position - but then argue "it's a very minor thing and waste to address it" alternate position just because it favors the other guys

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants