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RonD1120

Patriot Guard Riders statement on the passing of Fred Phelps.

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For those interested, a statement from the PGR president:

Quote

Patriot Guard,

Let’s first remember our Nation’s true Heroes. Those brave men and women of our military and first responders who gave their life so that we may enjoy the freedom to express our differences.

While it is hard to find anything good to say about his views or actions, we do give our condolences to his family during what must be a painful time for them. We take no joy in the sickness and death of any man. We do not celebrate the death of Fred Phelps. Patriot Guard Riders hope that Mr. Phelps somehow found the peace that seemed to elude him in life.

It is true that the PGR grew out of a response to protests at funerals. That's a fair statement.

However, that was 2005 and the PGR quickly learned that there was something powerful in a gathering of Americans who would simply stand and hold flags and let a family know that they were not alone. That powerful thing became our mission.

We are neither a protest nor a counter protest group. We honor fallen Heroes and those who have honorably served this free America. The presence or absence of a protest does not alter that mission.

If it not for this man and his family we might not have heeded the call to regularly honor the sacrifices of our nation’s true heroes and their families. Nor would we have come to know the brother/sisterhood that has become the Patriot Guard Riders.

Respectfully,

Robbie

Robbie Smart
President
Patriot Guard Riders
540-841-7272

www.PatriotGuard.org



The PGR is a high road riding group. I am proud to be a member.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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They are taking the honorable position, which is in keeping with the spirit of the organization. Glad they didn't succumb to the opportunity to be petty.

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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RonD1120

For those interested, a statement from the PGR president:

Quote

Patriot Guard,

Let’s first remember our Nation’s true Heroes. Those brave men and women of our military and first responders who gave their life so that we may enjoy the freedom to express our differences.

While it is hard to find anything good to say about his views or actions, we do give our condolences to his family during what must be a painful time for them. We take no joy in the sickness and death of any man. We do not celebrate the death of Fred Phelps. Patriot Guard Riders hope that Mr. Phelps somehow found the peace that seemed to elude him in life.

It is true that the PGR grew out of a response to protests at funerals. That's a fair statement.

However, that was 2005 and the PGR quickly learned that there was something powerful in a gathering of Americans who would simply stand and hold flags and let a family know that they were not alone. That powerful thing became our mission.

We are neither a protest nor a counter protest group. We honor fallen Heroes and those who have honorably served this free America. The presence or absence of a protest does not alter that mission.

If it not for this man and his family we might not have heeded the call to regularly honor the sacrifices of our nation’s true heroes and their families. Nor would we have come to know the brother/sisterhood that has become the Patriot Guard Riders.

Respectfully,

Robbie

Robbie Smart
President
Patriot Guard Riders
540-841-7272

www.PatriotGuard.org



The PGR is a high road riding group. I am proud to be a member.



Great examples of the words, "God and Country".
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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So many things that could be said, but just WOW! Very classy. Not just the foundation of the response, but the willingness to forego an opportunity to declare victory. I'm impressed.
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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RonD1120

For those interested, a statement from the PGR president:

Quote

Patriot Guard,

Let’s first remember our Nation’s true Heroes. Those brave men and women of our military and first responders who gave their life so that we may enjoy the freedom to express our differences.

While it is hard to find anything good to say about his views or actions, we do give our condolences to his family during what must be a painful time for them. We take no joy in the sickness and death of any man. We do not celebrate the death of Fred Phelps. Patriot Guard Riders hope that Mr. Phelps somehow found the peace that seemed to elude him in life.

It is true that the PGR grew out of a response to protests at funerals. That's a fair statement.

However, that was 2005 and the PGR quickly learned that there was something powerful in a gathering of Americans who would simply stand and hold flags and let a family know that they were not alone. That powerful thing became our mission.

We are neither a protest nor a counter protest group. We honor fallen Heroes and those who have honorably served this free America. The presence or absence of a protest does not alter that mission.

If it not for this man and his family we might not have heeded the call to regularly honor the sacrifices of our nation’s true heroes and their families. Nor would we have come to know the brother/sisterhood that has become the Patriot Guard Riders.

Respectfully,

Robbie

Robbie Smart
President
Patriot Guard Riders
540-841-7272

www.PatriotGuard.org



The PGR is a high road riding group. I am proud to be a member.



Very respectful and classy. Impressed.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

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It's interesting to contemplate that Phelps' one lasting contribution to society may have been to stimulate the formation of the Patriot Guard Riders. There's irony for you.

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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GeorgiaDon

It's interesting to contemplate that Phelps' one lasting contribution to society may have been to stimulate the formation of the Patriot Guard Riders. There's irony for you.

Don



I have often pointed that out to folks, some whom were PGR.

My wife and I were discussing his life and departure the other day. Even though we totally disagreed with his methods, there is a very good possibility that he is in heaven. He was a misguided soul but, so far as I know, he accepted the gospel and believed Jesus Christ was his Lord and Savior.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Skyrad

And yet on that criteria Ghandi didn't get in, its a funny old after life.



Did Ghandi hear the gospel and reject it? I don't know, do you? I do not know how God judges the souls of those who have been righteous without the knowledge of Jesus Christ. That is indeed a mystery.

I know what I have experienced with Jesus Christ in my life. That is my fall back point.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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RonD1120



I have often pointed that out to folks, some whom were PGR.

My wife and I were discussing his life and departure the other day. Even though we totally disagreed with his methods, there is a very good possibility that he is in heaven. He was a misguided soul but, so far as I know, he accepted the gospel and believed Jesus Christ was his Lord and Savior.



So "accepting the Gospel" and "Believing that Jesus is your savior" is all that's required?

Preaching hatred and deliberately making people miserable, even after accepting Jesus doesn't disqualify anyone?

Does "accepting Jesus" give someone a free shot at heaven, no matter what they do? (not "have done before")

Or is learning his teachings and doing your best to live by them part of accepting Jesus as your savior?
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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wolfriverjoe

***

I have often pointed that out to folks, some whom were PGR.

My wife and I were discussing his life and departure the other day. Even though we totally disagreed with his methods, there is a very good possibility that he is in heaven. He was a misguided soul but, so far as I know, he accepted the gospel and believed Jesus Christ was his Lord and Savior.



So "accepting the Gospel" and "Believing that Jesus is your savior" is all that's required?

Preaching hatred and deliberately making people miserable, even after accepting Jesus doesn't disqualify anyone?

Does "accepting Jesus" give someone a free shot at heaven, no matter what they do? (not "have done before")

Or is learning his teachings and doing your best to live by them part of accepting Jesus as your savior?

Keep in mind the first person Jesus Christ took to heaven with Him was a convicted death row criminal.

Luke 23:42-44
New King James Version (NKJV)
42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”

43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Dr. James Dobson states that during his interview with Ted Bundy, prior to his execution, that Bundy accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior.

Salvation requires a) believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God; b) believe that He died on the cross for your sin; c) believe that He rose from the dead on the third day. Confess that you are a sinner and ask Jesus to come into your life. After you have done that in prayer tell someone you have become a Christian. You will receive the Holy Spirit and He will begin to guide you in a closer relationship with Jesus. How close you get in this life determines your personal path of righteousness, not your salvation.

I believe in the doctrine of eternal security.

The gift of eternal life is very simple to obtain.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Okay, but that doesn't address my question.

The "convicted death row criminal" and even Bundy presumably lived the rest of their lives without continuing doing the things that they had done. I don't doubt that Bundy would have continued killing had he been able to get free, but that's another issue.

To repeat the question:

Does "Accepting Jesus" give someone free reign to continue doing evil, and still get into heaven?

Because Fred Phelps was pretty much "evil", continuing to preach hatred after supposedly accepting Jesus.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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Quote

I do not know how God judges the souls of those who have been righteous without the knowledge of Jesus Christ. That is indeed a mystery.

I don't propose to know how God judges at all. I do know what the Bible says, but I also know that to take humans' 20th and 21st century interpretations of 0th century narrations is problematic. If nothing else, just consider how the concept of a "godly" person has evolved over time.

If there is a God as humans conceive him, then I imagine he's more like the famous elephant as interpreted by 5 blind men than anything else. If those blind men are tethered to one spot, and can neither feel beyond their reach, nor feel anything in between them and their mates.

And maybe they have hearing trouble, too.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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wolfriverjoe

Okay, but that doesn't address my question.

The "convicted death row criminal" and even Bundy presumably lived the rest of their lives without continuing doing the things that they had done. I don't doubt that Bundy would have continued killing had he been able to get free, but that's another issue.

To repeat the question:

Does "Accepting Jesus" give someone free reign to continue doing evil, and still get into heaven?

Because Fred Phelps was pretty much "evil", continuing to preach hatred after supposedly accepting Jesus.



You pose a question that is a good one. I can't say for certain in my mind that Fred Phelps was evil. He was the leader of a an off beat Christian cult; he was about as obnoxious as one can be but was he condemned by God? I don't know.

This I do know, when you receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit He guides you on the path of righteousness. How well you follow His guidance is a function of your free will. My church believes that your salvation can be sacrificed and lost. I have trouble with that concept. Only God knows. I am responsible for me and me only.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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RonD1120

***Okay, but that doesn't address my question.

The "convicted death row criminal" and even Bundy presumably lived the rest of their lives without continuing doing the things that they had done. I don't doubt that Bundy would have continued killing had he been able to get free, but that's another issue.

To repeat the question:

Does "Accepting Jesus" give someone free reign to continue doing evil, and still get into heaven?

Because Fred Phelps was pretty much "evil", continuing to preach hatred after supposedly accepting Jesus.



You pose a question that is a good one. I can't say for certain in my mind that Fred Phelps was evil. He was the leader of a an off beat Christian cult; he was about as obnoxious as one can be but was he condemned by God? I don't know.

This I do know, when you receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit He guides you on the path of righteousness. How well you follow His guidance is a function of your free will. My church believes that your salvation can be sacrificed and lost. I have trouble with that concept. Only God knows. I am responsible for me and me only.

So who is more evil: Obama or Phelps?

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wmw999

Quote

I do not know how God judges the souls of those who have been righteous without the knowledge of Jesus Christ. That is indeed a mystery.

I don't propose to know how God judges at all. I do know what the Bible says, but I also know that to take humans' 20th and 21st century interpretations of 0th century narrations is problematic. If nothing else, just consider how the concept of a "godly" person has evolved over time.

If there is a God as humans conceive him, then I imagine he's more like the famous elephant as interpreted by 5 blind men than anything else. If those blind men are tethered to one spot, and can neither feel beyond their reach, nor feel anything in between them and their mates.

And maybe they have hearing trouble, too.

Wendy P.



I believe it is next to impossible to understand God intellectually. God must be experienced spiritually. He is worshiped in spirit and in truth.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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SkyDekker

******Okay, but that doesn't address my question.

The "convicted death row criminal" and even Bundy presumably lived the rest of their lives without continuing doing the things that they had done. I don't doubt that Bundy would have continued killing had he been able to get free, but that's another issue.

To repeat the question:

Does "Accepting Jesus" give someone free reign to continue doing evil, and still get into heaven?

Because Fred Phelps was pretty much "evil", continuing to preach hatred after supposedly accepting Jesus.



You pose a question that is a good one. I can't say for certain in my mind that Fred Phelps was evil. He was the leader of a an off beat Christian cult; he was about as obnoxious as one can be but was he condemned by God? I don't know.

This I do know, when you receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit He guides you on the path of righteousness. How well you follow His guidance is a function of your free will. My church believes that your salvation can be sacrificed and lost. I have trouble with that concept. Only God knows. I am responsible for me and me only.

So who is more evil: Obama or Phelps?

Tough question, I would pick Obama. We, the PGR, were able to successfully combat Phelps. BHO seems unstoppable.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Interesting that you would choose the Christian family man who actually exhibits his faith for the world to observe, than the pseudo-Christian who did so much to harm innocent Americans as they are trying to grieve for their lost family members.

You will KNOW them by their deeds.

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Amazon

Interesting that you would choose the Christian family man who actually exhibits his faith for the world to observe, than the pseudo-Christian who did so much to harm innocent Americans as they are trying to grieve for their lost family members.

You will KNOW them by their deeds.



I said it was a tough choice.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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RonD1120

***And yet on that criteria Ghandi didn't get in, its a funny old after life.



Did Ghandi hear the gospel and reject it?

Well, he lived in the world (and for part of his life, the western world) so he was certainly aware of it.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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He was reputed to have said 'I am both a Hindu and a Muslim' I don't recall that he said anything about being a Christian. Can you be a follower of Jesus without being a Christian?

I did a search:

Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you Christians - you are not like him.
Mahatma Gandhi

Interesting, sounds like he believed to some extent in Jesus but not Christians. I wonder where that leaves him.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

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RonD1120

***Okay, but that doesn't address my question.

The "convicted death row criminal" and even Bundy presumably lived the rest of their lives without continuing doing the things that they had done. I don't doubt that Bundy would have continued killing had he been able to get free, but that's another issue.

To repeat the question:

Does "Accepting Jesus" give someone free reign to continue doing evil, and still get into heaven?

Because Fred Phelps was pretty much "evil", continuing to preach hatred after supposedly accepting Jesus.



You pose a question that is a good one. I can't say for certain in my mind that Fred Phelps was evil. He was the leader of a an off beat Christian cult; he was about as obnoxious as one can be but was he condemned by God? I don't know.

This I do know, when you receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit He guides you on the path of righteousness. How well you follow His guidance is a function of your free will. My church believes that your salvation can be sacrificed and lost. I have trouble with that concept. Only God knows. I am responsible for me and me only.Some years ago I had a discussion with a self-professed evangelical Christian who insisted that Mother Teresa was currently in hell. His reasoning was that there was no evidence that she was "born again". Apparently it didn't matter that she clearly believed deeply in Jesus and devoted her whole life to His service. I'm not clear on just what he meant by "born again", but I got the sense that one has to lose their faith and then regain it in order to be "transformed". If you grow up with faith and never lose it, you can't be "born again" in the Lord, and so can't enter heaven.

He belonged to a church that also thought that a good approach to converting people is to show up at public events (such as 4th of July fireworks) and scream at people (including children) that they are going to burn in hell forever.

I am quite aware that he represents a tiny minority of Christians. It's still surprising to me that an otherwise intelligent and apparently normal (or at least functional) person could hold such unreasonable and rigid beliefs.

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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GeorgiaDon

******Okay, but that doesn't address my question.

The "convicted death row criminal" and even Bundy presumably lived the rest of their lives without continuing doing the things that they had done. I don't doubt that Bundy would have continued killing had he been able to get free, but that's another issue.

To repeat the question:

Does "Accepting Jesus" give someone free reign to continue doing evil, and still get into heaven?

Because Fred Phelps was pretty much "evil", continuing to preach hatred after supposedly accepting Jesus.



You pose a question that is a good one. I can't say for certain in my mind that Fred Phelps was evil. He was the leader of a an off beat Christian cult; he was about as obnoxious as one can be but was he condemned by God? I don't know.

This I do know, when you receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit He guides you on the path of righteousness. How well you follow His guidance is a function of your free will. My church believes that your salvation can be sacrificed and lost. I have trouble with that concept. Only God knows. I am responsible for me and me only.Some years ago I had a discussion with a self-professed evangelical Christian who insisted that Mother Teresa was currently in hell. His reasoning was that there was no evidence that she was "born again". Apparently it didn't matter that she clearly believed deeply in Jesus and devoted her whole life to His service. I'm not clear on just what he meant by "born again", but I got the sense that one has to lose their faith and then regain it in order to be "transformed". If you grow up with faith and never lose it, you can't be "born again" in the Lord, and so can't enter heaven.

He belonged to a church that also thought that a good approach to converting people is to show up at public events (such as 4th of July fireworks) and scream at people (including children) that they are going to burn in hell forever.

I am quite aware that he represents a tiny minority of Christians. It's still surprising to me that an otherwise intelligent and apparently normal (or at least functional) person could hold such unreasonable and rigid beliefs.

Don

Everyone I know that has experienced being born again knows exactly when it happened. For me it was 16 Mar 1981.

The following is the Scriptural reference:

John 3
New King James Version (NKJV)
The New Birth

3 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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