Russian legislators approve troop deployment in Ukraine

[quade 3]

Quote

Russian legislators approve troop deployment in Ukraine

MOSCOW -- Russia’s upper house of parliament unanimously approved a request by President Vladimir Putin to deploy armed forces on “the territory of Ukraine” to protect Russian military assets and Russian citizens living there.

Source; http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-russian-legislators-approve-troop-deployment-in-ukraine-20140301,0,5534961.story

Question: is there any legitimate reason the US should get involved?

30 years ago we'd be concerned with the spread of communism, but that's not an issue since Russia isn't communist now.

We'd also be concerned if Putin was a dictator, but regardless of his beating up some people against him, Russia as a whole seems to be doing quite well compared to before the wall fell.

I'm just not sure we have any moral grounds to stop him.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Amazon 7]

quade

Quote

Russian legislators approve troop deployment in Ukraine

MOSCOW -- Russia’s upper house of parliament unanimously approved a request by President Vladimir Putin to deploy armed forces on “the territory of Ukraine” to protect Russian military assets and Russian citizens living there.

Source; http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-russian-legislators-approve-troop-deployment-in-ukraine-20140301,0,5534961.story

Question: is there any legitimate reason the US should get involved?

30 years ago we'd be concerned with the spread of communism, but that's not an issue since Russia isn't communist now.

We'd also be concerned if Putin was a dictator, but regardless of his beating up some people against him, Russia as a whole seems to be doing quite well compared to before the wall fell.

I'm just not sure we have any moral grounds to stop him.

Crimea is a Russian-majority territory that was "gifted" to Ukraine in 1954 by Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev, ironically to celebrate 300 years of Ukrainian-Russian unity. The change carried no consequences until the USSR broke up, and Crimea became an autonomous republic within independent Ukraine.

Is he just going in to protect the ethnic minority there that Stalin moved in after moving out or starving to death in vast numbers in the Holodomor or to Siberia???
Seemed a lot of that sort of thing was going on in the 1930's. I seem to recall another situation.

[quade 3]

Amazon

Is he just going in to protect the ethnic minority there that Stalin moved in after moving out or starving to death in vast numbers in the Holodomor or to Siberia???
Seemed a lot of that sort of thing was going on in the 1930's. I seem to recall another situation.

While people may not like Putin for a lot of reasons, I've seen no evidence of him doing or caring about any "ethnic cleansing." I don't think he gives a crap about that as long as the resources flow.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Skyrad 0]

A moral case for not intervening can be made. The Ukrainian opposition are mainly comprised of armed Nazis and Fascists who are very hostile to the ethnic Russian population. I'm no fan of Putin but if he want to go and off some Nazis good luck to him.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

Skyrad

A moral case for not intervening can be made. The Ukrainian opposition are mainly comprised of armed Nazis and Fascists who are very hostile to the ethnic Russian population. I'm no fan of Putin but if he want to go and off some Nazis good luck to him.

Well there you go... Millions more dead with the Commies and Nazi's fighting each other in Eastern Europe..

A brief history lesson on the millions of dead Ukrainians in the last century might be an instructive exercise. Think there is a prayer in hell of that ending well for Europe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Oh and that does not even account for the losses of Ukranians in WWI where millions fought on the side of the Russians... and hundreds of thousands fought for the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Then we get to War II..

[lawrocket 3]

Doesn't matter. The President has made a statement that there will be consequences. So we're stuck.

Now we either do something and probably look bad. Or not do anything and look even worse.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[quade 3]

lawrocket

Doesn't matter. The President has made a statement that there will be consequences. So we're stuck.
Now we either do something and probably look bad. Or not do anything and look even worse.

Are you saying that's a legitimate reason? That we, as Americans, should even care about how we look?

I thought that ship sailed.

I'm certainly not in favor of WWIII over appearances.

How far do you believe we should push that?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Amazon 7]

quade

***Doesn't matter. The President has made a statement that there will be consequences. So we're stuck.
Now we either do something and probably look bad. Or not do anything and look even worse.

Are you saying that's a legitimate reason? That we, as Americans, should even care about how we look?

I thought that ship sailed.

I'm certainly not in favor of WWIII over appearances.

How far do you believe we should push that?

Hey.. the Russkies are just after another countries resources ...

[quade 3]

Amazon

Hey.. the Russkies are just after another countries resources ...

From what I can see, there is also a significant portion of the country that actively wants reunification with Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIfDAhS55EQ

Of course, this is similar to how the Iranians greeted US forces . . . initially.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Amazon 7]

quade

***Hey.. the Russkies are just after another countries resources ...

From what I can see, there is also a significant portion of the country that actively wants reunification with Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIfDAhS55EQ

Of course, this is similar to how the Iranians greeted US forces . . . initially.

Of course ethnic Russians want to be back as part of Mother Russia.. that was the absolute GENIUS of Stalinist Russia.. Kill off anyone not Russian... or move them to Siberia to allow for a Russian majority in all those vassal states... move in ethnic Russians to the new collective farms on the lands that have been taken from the people who have been on the land for thousands of years and voila, Ukrainian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian people become second class citizens in their own countries.

[Skyrad 0]

Amazon

***A moral case for not intervening can be made. The Ukrainian opposition are mainly comprised of armed Nazis and Fascists who are very hostile to the ethnic Russian population. I'm no fan of Putin but if he want to go and off some Nazis good luck to him.

Well there you go... Millions more dead with the Commies and Nazi's fighting each other in Eastern Europe..

A brief history lesson on the millions of dead Ukrainians in the last century might be an instructive exercise. Think there is a prayer in hell of that ending well for Europe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Oh and that does not even account for the losses of Ukranians in WWI where millions fought on the side of the Russians... and hundreds of thousands fought for the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Then we get to War II..

WWII where the Ukrainians colluded with the Nazi's, to the point where they were incorporated in to the SS after having murdered all the Jewish people in ways so barbaric that even the Einsatzgruppen were shocked. The USA should keep its nose out of this one.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[lawrocket 3]

quade

***Doesn't matter. The President has made a statement that there will be consequences. So we're stuck.
Now we either do something and probably look bad. Or not do anything and look even worse.

Are you saying that's a legitimate reason? That we, as Americans, should even care about how we look?

I thought that ship sailed.

I'm certainly not in favor of WWIII over appearances.

How far do you believe we should push that?

No. I'm saying that it doesn't matter is there is a good reason or not to do anything. The President laid down a gauntlet. The Russians smacked him with it.

What now? The gauntlet shouldn't have been laid down in the first place. I agree. Now, what will be the reaction? And how will Putin school the President again?

I'm asking myself when the President will quit playing around with the Russians. He's like Charlie Brown trying the kick the football and Putin is Lucy.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[shropshire 0]

Putin is just protecting Russia's interests which is more acceptable than a certain other country sticking it's unwanted oar into other countries and invading them.

Providing the situations is sorted out quickly and order is restored .. no one is really going to give a toss.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Skyrad 0]

True, is he supposed to sit around while Russia loses its sea access to the south and ethnic Russians are persecuted by Nazi and fascist scum?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[quade 3]

lawrocket

The President laid down a gauntlet. The Russians smacked him with it.

Smacked? I believe the word is ignored.

It doesn't help to exaggerate your case.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lawrocket 3]

quade

Smacked? I believe the word is ignored.

I don't think there is a difference between the two. The Russians don't care. But okay.

What's the President going ti do to respond?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[skydiver30960 0]

lawrocket

***
Smacked? I believe the word is ignored.

I don't think there is a difference between the two. The Russians don't care. But okay.

What's the President going ti do to respond?

My guess: The probability of our involvement is directly proportional to the amount of oil under Ukraine soil. OR, to put it another way, what's in it for us?

Elvisio "petrolefirous" Rodriguez

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

lawrocket

***
Smacked? I believe the word is ignored.

I don't think there is a difference between the two. The Russians don't care. But okay.

What's the President going to do to respond?

Probably about the same as with Syria. Remember his "Red Line" or whatever empty threat he made?

It's funny how many people are implying that the Ukrainians are fascists/Nazis because they sided with Germany against the Russians. So did the Norwegians.
Russia has done a lot of "not nice" things to it's neighbors over the years.

This whole thing happened because the general population wanted to be closer to the EU, but the president wanted closer association to (and a promised bailout from) Russia.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[quade 3]

lawrocket

***
Smacked? I believe the word is ignored.

I don't think there is a difference between the two.

Sir, please. I know it's your day off, but I'm fairly certain you've argued over the difference of interpretation of comma placement. I'm fairly certain you do understand the difference between the two.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Andy9o8 0]

lawrocket

***
Smacked? I believe the word is ignored.

I don't think there is a difference between the two. The Russians don't care. But okay.

What's the President going ti do to respond?

Perhaps you haven't been reading the news: The President said there'd be costs.
I wouldn't want to be Putin right now.

[quade 3]

Andy9o8

Perhaps you haven't been reading the news: The President said there'd be costs.

I believe the word was “consequences."

But of course that would be inevitable anyway. There are always “consequences” to actions.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Andy9o8 0]

quade

***Perhaps you haven't been reading the news: The President said there'd be costs.

I believe the word was “consequences."

But of course that would be inevitable anyway. There are always “consequences” to actions.

Ok so I just re-checked. Looks like he said both.
See? That means it's over.

[Amazon 7]

Skyrad

******A moral case for not intervening can be made. The Ukrainian opposition are mainly comprised of armed Nazis and Fascists who are very hostile to the ethnic Russian population. I'm no fan of Putin but if he want to go and off some Nazis good luck to him.

Well there you go... Millions more dead with the Commies and Nazi's fighting each other in Eastern Europe..

A brief history lesson on the millions of dead Ukrainians in the last century might be an instructive exercise. Think there is a prayer in hell of that ending well for Europe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Oh and that does not even account for the losses of Ukranians in WWI where millions fought on the side of the Russians... and hundreds of thousands fought for the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Then we get to War II..

WWII where the Ukrainians colluded with the Nazi's, to the point where they were incorporated in to the SS after having murdered all the Jewish people in ways so barbaric that even the Einsatzgruppen were shocked. The USA should keep its nose out of this one.

Sounds like a hell of a lot of payback for the Holodomor as well as the usual European Pogroms.. different war.. same hatred for the jews.. how many times have they been "cleansed" by Christians and Muslims.. even though they are "people of the book"????

[muff528 3]

lawrocket

******Doesn't matter. The President has made a statement that there will be consequences. So we're stuck.
Now we either do something and probably look bad. Or not do anything and look even worse.

Are you saying that's a legitimate reason? That we, as Americans, should even care about how we look?

I thought that ship sailed.

I'm certainly not in favor of WWIII over appearances.

How far do you believe we should push that?

No. I'm saying that it doesn't matter is there is a good reason or not to do anything. The President laid down a gauntlet. The Russians smacked him with it.

What now? The gauntlet shouldn't have been laid down in the first place. I agree. Now, what will be the reaction? And how will Putin school the President again?

I'm asking myself when the President will quit playing around with the Russians. He's like Charlie Brown trying the kick the football and Putin is Lucy.

Well, the gauntlet was sort of laid down back in '94 when we, and the Brits, bamboozled the Ukraine promised to help protect the Ukraine's borders in exchange for them giving up their nukes. So they did ...and now we probably won't. Not really a treaty but just a promise with our fingers crossed behind our backs. But it's not like we haven't reneged on a promise like that before ....so screw 'em. They should have known better.

[Skyrad 0]

wolfriverjoe

******
Smacked? I believe the word is ignored.

I don't think there is a difference between the two. The Russians don't care. But okay.

What's the President going to do to respond?

Probably about the same as with Syria. Remember his "Red Line" or whatever empty threat he made?

It's funny how many people are implying that the Ukrainians are fascists/Nazis because they sided with Germany against the Russians. So did the Norwegians.
Russia has done a lot of "not nice" things to it's neighbors over the years.

This whole thing happened because the general population wanted to be closer to the EU, but the president wanted closer association to (and a promised bailout from) Russia.

Its not just their history, there are three main opposition groups in Ukraine all are either ultra nationalists or nazis.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca