aphid 0 #26 March 1, 2014 GeorgiaDon The system is inherently corrupting, and stinks to high heaven. Not just Texas: http://www.ksbw.com/news/central-california/salinas/king-city-police-chief-miller-and-exchief-baldiviez-arrested/24662946 I am very sympathetic to the good/clean cops, and I do believe they are still the significant majority. It must be incredibly disheartening to face daily an image grotesquely stained by the actions of some other officers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #27 March 1, 2014 aphid *** The system is inherently corrupting, and stinks to high heaven. Not just Texas: http://www.ksbw.com/news/central-california/salinas/king-city-police-chief-miller-and-exchief-baldiviez-arrested/24662946 I am very sympathetic to the good/clean cops, and I do believe they are still the significant majority. It must be incredibly disheartening to face daily an image grotesquely stained by the actions of some other officers. ^^^^^^^^^ THIS^^^^^^^^ But until the good ones behind that thin blue line step up and rid themselves of the psychos it will just continue to deteriorate.. more innocent civilians will die... you know.. the WE THE PEOPLE who have been incorrectly led to believe are being protected and served. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #28 March 1, 2014 QuoteHave the cops raided the wrong place in the past. Yep. Did they want to? In the case above? Seems like it, yeah. QuoteIn my experience, they try really hard to do it right. Except in cases like GeorgiaDon's, or the Rampart scandal, or numerous others where certain law enforcement departments simply become another branch of Organised Crime.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,120 #29 March 1, 2014 Quote I am very sympathetic to the good/clean cops, and I do believe they are still the significant majority. It must be incredibly disheartening to face daily an image grotesquely stained by the actions of some other officers. ***^^^^^^^^^ THIS^^^^^^^^ But until the good ones behind that thin blue line step up and rid themselves of the psychos it will just continue to deteriorate.. And that, folks, is just how some people look at African Americans and criminality, or Muslims and terrorism. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #30 March 2, 2014 wmw999 ***...until the good ones behind that thin blue line step up and rid themselves of the psychos it will just continue to deteriorate... And that, folks, is just how some people look at African Americans and criminality, or Muslims and terrorism. Wendy P. I'm having a little trouble parsing your comment. Are you trying to say the sentiment is comparable in both cases and generally unreasonable, or are you trying to say one needs to be careful with the concept of demanding the good speak up, because if you extend it to a group like blacks or muslims you'll find the good owe no one an explanation of the bad behavior? The latter I get, the former I don't. I don't think these are comparable in the least. About a year ago when Dorner was on the loose, the Torrance Police (the next town over from me) went full pants-on-head crazy. Eight cops turned one pickup and a few houses behind it into swiss cheese, and another pair of officers rammed a pickup and got out and started shooting at it. Neither of these vehicles matched the make, model, or color of the suspect vehicle. To date, none of 10 officers involved have been, charged, fined, or fired for this. Last I heard they are "still reviewing potential disciplinary actions." I think police made Dorner's point in the way they conducted themselves while trying to get revenge apprehend him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #31 March 2, 2014 Amazon ***Your last sentence is awesome. I didn't fear the cops when I was a kid, I respected them. That is no longer true. ^^^^^^ THIS That was when they were actually protecting and serving WE The People.The vast majority of us, still do. But, we will always be shown negatively in every situation, negative news, like sex, sells. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #32 March 2, 2014 matthewcline ******Your last sentence is awesome. I didn't fear the cops when I was a kid, I respected them. That is no longer true. ^^^^^^ THIS That was when they were actually protecting and serving WE The People.The vast majority of us, still do. But, we will always be shown negatively in every situation, negative news, like sex, sells. Matt Not all Matt.. but I hope the hell you know what I am talking about... What is the actual death toll up to in this country by Blue, Green, or Brown on civilian by Blue, Green, or Brown uniforms being very fast on triggers. The police are literally given the power of life and death over those of us that they used to be charged with protecting and serving. Do you think that not instantly "complying" with an officers demand is a good reason to shoot someone? I do not know about you... but I see this day after day and it is getting a bit old. You might get the idea we are living in a police state, with the police being the arbiter of handing out lessons at the point of clubs and guns. Power seems to be corrupting many officers.. and that corruption corrupts some absolutely. I know its a tough job I have family members who wear the uniform, but as someone on the other side of that thin blue line.. I no longer trust those on the other side not to harm me in some way for being in the wrong place with a feral human with little compassion for their fellow human beings just looking for an excuse to power trip his way to another notch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FastRon 0 #33 March 2, 2014 matthewcline ******Your last sentence is awesome. I didn't fear the cops when I was a kid, I respected them. That is no longer true. ^^^^^^ THIS That was when they were actually protecting and serving WE The People.The vast majority of us, still do. But, we will always be shown negatively in every situation, negative news, like sex, sells. Matt Amen Matt- I am reminded of something my father repeated from somewhere- To paraphrase- 'The spectrum of changing behavior (and to some extent philosophies) ranges from persuasion to reward to compulsion. Humans are diverse enough and contrary enough to require the use of every nuance in that spectrum. With that in mind, some here ought to try a ride-along with a local agency. The work just might be different than they assert it to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #34 March 2, 2014 Amazon ****** The system is inherently corrupting, and stinks to high heaven. Not just Texas: http://www.ksbw.com/news/central-california/salinas/king-city-police-chief-miller-and-exchief-baldiviez-arrested/24662946 I am very sympathetic to the good/clean cops, and I do believe they are still the significant majority. It must be incredibly disheartening to face daily an image grotesquely stained by the actions of some other officers. ^^^^^^^^^ THIS^^^^^^^^ But until the good ones behind that thin blue line step up and rid themselves of the psychos it will just continue to deteriorate.. more innocent civilians will die... you know.. the WE THE PEOPLE who have been incorrectly led to believe are being protected and served.Exactly! .. So why oh why will they NOT ever do this? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #35 March 2, 2014 [DOH] .. Let's kick in the doors of houses in a country when loads of people have got their own guns (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #36 March 2, 2014 QuoteWith that in mind, some here ought to try a ride-along with a local agency. The work just might be different than they assert it to be. "Hey, Mr. Police Chief. Can I go on a ride along to one of your no-knock busts?" "No." "Okay." "You can ride along with Jones. His beat is the upper middle class white neighborhood." "Sounds boring." "Yep." My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #37 March 2, 2014 lawrocketQuoteWith that in mind, some here ought to try a ride-along with a local agency. The work just might be different than they assert it to be. "Hey, Mr. Police Chief. Can I go on a ride along to one of your no-knock busts?" "No." "Okay." "You can ride along with Jones. His beat is the upper middle class white neighborhood." "Sounds boring." "Yep." The ride alongs in our local community are a nearly endless series of traffic stops to generate revenue. I was amazed they did not issue those special Georgia State Patrol approved mirror sunglasses Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #38 March 3, 2014 There are a lot of reports on the net this subject. For sake of brevity and NOT cherry picking, here are some additional facts that might be important. 1. An informant claimed Magee had 12-14 plants, 6' tall. Texas Rangers found two plants no more than 6" tall with seedlings. Informant claimed Magee had a stolen weapon. Three weapons were found in a gun safe and one weapon was out; probably the one that killed Det. Sowders. 2. The suspect had no violent priors but was arrested twice for DUI and twice for minor drug offenses. 3. Det. Sowders requests a judge to issue a no knock no notice warrant for fear of suspect flushing evidence down the toilet. The raid is carried out a 0600. Suspect claims he did not hear the police announce in spite of police claims that they announced themselves. Det. Sowders initiates the dynamic entry, startles the suspect, the suspect hearing the loud noise and the shape of a human being in his residence, fires his weapon and subsequently kills Det. Sowders. 4. After three hours before the Grand Jury in Burelson County, Texas, the DA presents evidence and points of law on capital murder and self defense. The Grand Jury determined insufficient evidence to prove Magee knew the intruders were police. OBSERVATIONS Bad intelligence from an informant that may not have been checked out for validity. The suspect had a criminal record but no prior violence. Was a realistic risk assessment made? Were alternate scenarios considered to apprehend the suspect by other methods that would have de-escalated the violence? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #39 March 3, 2014 Well he did answer the door when they knocked to have a friendly neighborly chat about him firing his weapons on his property. Clearly a non violent person from the information I've seen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #40 March 3, 2014 Quote1. An informant claimed Magee had 12-14 plants, 6' tall... 3. Det. Sowders requests a judge to issue a no knock no notice warrant for fear of suspect flushing evidence down the toilet. They have big toilets in Texas?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #41 March 3, 2014 jakeeQuote1. An informant claimed Magee had 12-14 plants, 6' tall... 3. Det. Sowders requests a judge to issue a no knock no notice warrant for fear of suspect flushing evidence down the toilet. They have big toilets in Texas? You beat me to it. I think this shows the ridiculousnness as much as anything... My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #42 March 3, 2014 Yea...two different articles said the same thing...but no mention of toilet size...good catch! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #43 March 3, 2014 lawrocket***Quote1. An informant claimed Magee had 12-14 plants, 6' tall... 3. Det. Sowders requests a judge to issue a no knock no notice warrant for fear of suspect flushing evidence down the toilet. They have big toilets in Texas? You beat me to it. I think this shows the ridiculousnness as much as anything... He could flush many items down a toilet, all of which could be evidence. It will take the supporting documentation, and maybe the Judges recollection of what the Officer said, to better know though. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #44 March 3, 2014 Jeez, no-one goes for the "Everything's bigger in Texas" punchline? I'm disappointed in you guysAnd Matthew, surely anyone could have incriminating evidence in their home that they could flush down a toilet - but unless you have actionable information suggesting that to be the case it's irrelevant, right? Otherwise you could start serving no knock warrants on traffic tickets. You never know what you might find. Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #45 March 4, 2014 QuoteOtherwise you could start serving no knock warrants on traffic tickets. I understand the intent of the humor. Yet your humor is striking way too close to the truth of some situations. SWAT teams are now being used for a variety of scenarios. About a year and a half ago, A SWAT team raided a house (no knock dynamic entry) in Stockton, California because a woman no longer married to the man living there and NOT living at the residence was behind in her federal student loan payments. The ex-husband and the kids she left behind got a very rude awakening that morning. Radley Balko has written a book, "The Rise of The Warrior Cop." in it he traces how American Law Enforcement has developed since the founding of the country and I think he makes an argument that should not be ignored. The sad thing in all of this is that a cop did not have to die but the cop who died "planned the op." Was there a better way in arresting the suspect? A principle from Sun-Tzu, "To win without fighting is best!" Or put another way, with sufficient thought and effort, the same objective can be achieved without violence. I guess we'll never know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #46 March 4, 2014 QuoteYet your humor is striking way too close to the truth of some situations Indeed. Who here knows that the EPA conducts SWAT-style raids to conduct paperwork inspections? Sounds ludicrous, but it happens. Or that organic farms and raw milk producers are regularly the subject of such raids? Or raiding Gibson Guitars because there was a rumor that banned ebony was being used? Or being used to break up charity poker games to benefit a food bank? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #47 March 4, 2014 BoomerdogRadley Balko has written a book, "The Rise of The Warrior Cop." Reading that book now, along with this one: http://www.amazon.com/The-Way-Knife-Secret-Earth/dp/1594204802cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #48 March 4, 2014 lawrocketQuoteYet your humor is striking way too close to the truth of some situations Indeed. Who here knows that the EPA conducts SWAT-style raids to conduct paperwork inspections? Sounds ludicrous, but it happens. Or that organic farms and raw milk producers are regularly the subject of such raids? Or raiding Gibson Guitars because there was a rumor that banned ebony was being used? Or being used to break up charity poker games to benefit a food bank? Jackboots.. ded someone mention Jackboots http://progressivepopulist.org/2014/03/02/video-shows-man-suffering-deliverance-style-treatment-small-town-texas-cops-video/ Love this one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #49 March 4, 2014 lawrocketQuoteYet your humor is striking way too close to the truth of some situations Indeed. Who here knows that the EPA conducts SWAT-style raids to conduct paperwork inspections? Sounds ludicrous, but it happens. Or that organic farms and raw milk producers are regularly the subject of such raids? Or raiding Gibson Guitars because there was a rumor that banned ebony was being used? Or being used to break up charity poker games to benefit a food bank? Feds. All we should have, is the FBI at that level with "Police Authority". MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #50 March 4, 2014 matthewcline***QuoteYet your humor is striking way too close to the truth of some situations Indeed. Who here knows that the EPA conducts SWAT-style raids to conduct paperwork inspections? Sounds ludicrous, but it happens. Or that organic farms and raw milk producers are regularly the subject of such raids? Or raiding Gibson Guitars because there was a rumor that banned ebony was being used? Or being used to break up charity poker games to benefit a food bank? Feds. All we should have, is the FBI at that level with "Police Authority". Matt It has always amazed me how many different law enforcement agencies the US has at all different levels. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
