Does having a gun in the home make you safer?

[kallend 1,620]

kelpdiver

So make up your mind - is my specific scenario not the same as the general statistics, or am I a skygod pretending that they are? You can't even maintain your bullshit for two sentences in a row!

Maybe you ARE a firearm skygod.

But the funny thing is that not a single one of the gun owners who posts here admits to being anything but a firearm skygod.

DZ.COM must be the Lake Wobegon of guns.

So where are all the below average gun owners? I guess they're in the police, or firearms instructors who shoot themselves.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,620]

Boogers

*********FACT - carrying a gun increases your chance of being shot dead.

So we should disarm the police?

Well, that's an interesting question.

In the UK, where the police are (mostly) unarmed, there were 3 police officers shot dead in the last DECADE. Even at the height of IRA terrorism, the number only reached 12. In the USA, for comparison, the number hovers around 70 per YEAR.

The UK population is roughly 1/5 of the USA's.

So YOU do the math.

So we should disarm our police to reduce cop-killings and make them more safe?
That's going to be a tough sell with the cops...

For all your self-professed math skills, you need some help with your logic skills.
You see, cops aren't usually killed with their own guns.
Taking their guns away won't make them immune from being killed by others.
Tsk tsk. Factor that into your equation.



When your question backfires on you, insults are your recourse.

Not surprised.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[champu 1]

kallend

But the funny thing is that not a single one of the gun owners who posts here admits to being anything but a firearm skygod.

Troll, troll, troll your boat cacophonously down the stream...

[kallend 1,620]

champu

***But the funny thing is that not a single one of the gun owners who posts here admits to being anything but a firearm skygod.

Troll, troll, troll your boat cacophonously down the stream...

So why don't YOU provide us with a link to a post by anyone claiming to be a below average gun owner?

Put up for a change, instead of just carping.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[champu 1]

kallend

Put up for a change, instead of just carping.

That's rich.

[kelpdiver 2]

kallend

***

So make up your mind - is my specific scenario not the same as the general statistics, or am I a skygod pretending that they are? You can't even maintain your bullshit for two sentences in a row!

Maybe you ARE a firearm skygod.

But the funny thing is that not a single one of the gun owners who posts here admits to being anything but a firearm skygod.

DZ.COM must be the Lake Wobegon of guns.


Since you're willing to take a clear stance, I'll give ask you the same thing I asked Skydekker - to address the points I raised in post #52:

"If we were all one generic household, perhaps. We're not.

I'm white, do not engage in drug trade, and did not purchase my weapons in response to a direct threat. My probability of being murdered is pretty minute as a result.

No one in my household has a history of mental health issues or takes psychiatric drugs (or other mind fucking ones), and the guns were purchased long ago, so the risk of suicide is also far lower than any average would imply."

DZ.com members are going to be, collectively, likely to be white, likely to be male, and likely to be well off. Some might sell a bit of their weed, but unlikely to be any closer to the drug trade. I have no stats to describe our community's suicide rate - I only can recall one person local to the Bay Area.

So overall, my conclusion is that yes, we are Lake Wobegon when compared to the USA as a whole. Shooting is far less complicated than skydiving.

[toolbox 0]

I agree that skydiving safely is far more complicated and takes a lot more skill than shooting a gun safely.
We all love skydiving,but I bet that a gun owner who is an active skydiver(100+ jumps per year),and is able to drop a few thousand bucks of income per year skydiving,is more likely to be badly injured or killed skydiving than by their own gun. I know,and have known a lot of skydivers over the years,and almost all who were badly injured or died violently did so skydiving.
Just my opinion,but I feel that skydiving is far more of a danger to myself than having a gun in my home.
That being said,I love to skydive and will continue to accept the risk for participating.

[toolbox 0]

I do not have any concrete numbers,but I bet having a knife in your home must greatly increase your chances of suicide by knife,and has to most certainly increase your chances of being murdered by a knife,when compared to having a knife free home.
What do you think ?

[billeisele 122]

maybe the resident PhD (piled high and deep) should do a complete review of available statistics and publish a self-righteous paper on how skydiving equipment owners are much more likely to be involved in a skydiving related incident than those that don't have the equipment

the stupidity of both papers would be similar

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[toolbox 0]

[quade 3]

billeisele

maybe the resident PhD (piled high and deep) should do a complete review of available statistics and publish a self-righteous paper on how skydiving equipment owners are much more likely to be involved in a skydiving related incident than those that don't have the equipment

I realize you think you've just said a clever thing, but I think you need to read it again.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SkyDekker 1,120]

Quote

"If we were all one generic household, perhaps. We're not.

I'm white, do not engage in drug trade, and did not purchase my weapons in response to a direct threat. My probability of being murdered is pretty minute as a result.

No one in my household has a history of mental health issues or takes psychiatric drugs (or other mind fucking ones), and the guns were purchased long ago, so the risk of suicide is also far lower than any average would imply."

DZ.com members are going to be, collectively, likely to be white, likely to be male, and likely to be well off. Some might sell a bit of their weed, but unlikely to be any closer to the drug trade. I have no stats to describe our community's suicide rate - I only can recall one person local to the Bay Area.

I did address the point, but like the typical skygod you didn't like the answer and rejected it.

Here, I'll tell you what you want to hear: You are special and all your friends are special. They are not subject to what general statistics show.

I am not trying to deminish that you have thought about this and have deemed that the risks are acceptable to you and your family. Good for you.

However, like the kid downsizing way to quickly, you dismiss the statistics by saying: this cannot happen to me and my family members.

[champu 1]

SkyDekker

Quote

"If we were all one generic household, perhaps. We're not.

I'm white, do not engage in drug trade, and did not purchase my weapons in response to a direct threat. My probability of being murdered is pretty minute as a result.

No one in my household has a history of mental health issues or takes psychiatric drugs (or other mind fucking ones), and the guns were purchased long ago, so the risk of suicide is also far lower than any average would imply."

DZ.com members are going to be, collectively, likely to be white, likely to be male, and likely to be well off. Some might sell a bit of their weed, but unlikely to be any closer to the drug trade. I have no stats to describe our community's suicide rate - I only can recall one person local to the Bay Area.

I did address the point, but like the typical skygod you didn't like the answer and rejected it.

Here, I'll tell you what you want to hear: You are special and all your friends are special. They are not subject to what general statistics show.

I am not trying to deminish that you have thought about this and have deemed that the risks are acceptable to you and your family. Good for you.

However, like the kid downsizing way to quickly, you dismiss the statistics by saying: this cannot happen to me and my family members.

Owning a firearm in and of itself is not comparable to "downsizing too quickly." kelpdiver is the one reading the incidents thread about people downsizing too quickly and thumping in and saying, "Well gee, I've stuck to my 1:1 wingloading and I stay current, I should keep doing that if I want to stay safe."

You're acting like a reporter writing about every skydiving accident, "Gun failed to not shoot family member or acquantance. Case closed."

[kallend 1,620]

billeisele

maybe the resident PhD (piled high and deep) should do a complete review of available statistics and publish a self-righteous paper on how skydiving equipment owners are much more likely to be involved in a skydiving related incident than those that don't have the equipment

the stupidity of both papers would be similar

Truth is never stupid.

Your post is, however.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Boogers 0]

billeisele

maybe the resident PhD (piled high and deep) should do a complete review of available statistics and publish a self-righteous paper on how skydiving equipment owners are much more likely to be involved in a skydiving related incident than those that don't have the equipment

the stupidity of both papers would be similar

Indeed. I understand that 99.9% of all people who have died by jumping out of a plane were wearing a parachute rig.

Conclusion: Parachute rigs cause violent death.






And with all the insults now being hurled, I'm outta this thread.

[winsor 185]

kallend

***

So make up your mind - is my specific scenario not the same as the general statistics, or am I a skygod pretending that they are? You can't even maintain your bullshit for two sentences in a row!

Maybe you ARE a firearm skygod.

But the funny thing is that not a single one of the gun owners who posts here admits to being anything but a firearm skygod.

DZ.COM must be the Lake Wobegon of guns.

So where are all the below average gun owners? I guess they're in the police, or firearms instructors who shoot themselves.

My limited exposure to the confluence of firearms and skydiving indicates that, in general, the skydivers who are not extremely competent with firearms are those that eschew them entirely.

Our population includes an inordinate number of Special Ops, Law Enforcement, and other heavily trained personnel. I know quite a few Class III manufacturers, dealers and licensees as well.

The number of active participants in Rifle, Pistol and Shotgun Competition is much higher than in the general population, and the level of technical expertise regarding shooting tends to be in the top 10% of people who show up for any class I have taught.

If you show up at a DZ with anything from a BB gun to a 16 inch naval rifle, dollars to donuts says there will be someone there who not only knows how to use it, but can use it supremely well.

The skydiving community may be a lot of things, but it is not, and likely will never be, reflective of the population at large. An unusual level of competence with firearms (again, among those who do not routinely avoid them) is typical of skydivers.


BSBD,

Winsor

[kelpdiver 2]

SkyDekker

I did address the point, but like the typical skygod you didn't like the answer and rejected it.

Here, I'll tell you what you want to hear: You are special and all your friends are special. They are not subject to what general statistics show.

I am not trying to deminish that you have thought about this and have deemed that the risks are acceptable to you and your family. Good for you.

However, like the kid downsizing way to quickly, you dismiss the statistics by saying: this cannot happen to me and my family members.

I explained exactly how I am "special." You gave no reply at all, so I fail to see how you addressed this response.

It's a bit comical for skydivers to talk about 'vastly increased risks of dying' due to gun ownership when we participate in a sport with an annual death rate of 1 in 1000, or using the more common risk benchmark, 100 in 100,000. Meanwhile the US murder rate is 4.7 in 100,000. And the driving death rate is 10.8. The worst nation of earth (Honduras: 91.6) is still better than our skydiving average.

As for skydiving, when I was active, I had a 230 reserve and my mains were 230, 210, 210. Though as I noted at the time, any of the proposed WL rules to prevent skygods from augering in would have had very limited success. The case of the kid downsizing too quickly was actually fairly rare. (femuring may have been a different story)

[turtlespeed 212]

kallend

***

So make up your mind - is my specific scenario not the same as the general statistics, or am I a skygod pretending that they are? You can't even maintain your bullshit for two sentences in a row!

Maybe you ARE a firearm skygod.

But the funny thing is that not a single one of the gun owners who posts here admits to being anything but a firearm skygod.

DZ.COM must be the Lake Wobegon of guns.

So where are all the below average gun owners? I guess they're in the police, or firearms instructors who shoot themselves.

I believe you admit to owning several guns.

Soooooo, what does that say about you? Mr. Firearm Skygod?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

turtlespeed

******

So make up your mind - is my specific scenario not the same as the general statistics, or am I a skygod pretending that they are? You can't even maintain your bullshit for two sentences in a row!

Maybe you ARE a firearm skygod.

But the funny thing is that not a single one of the gun owners who posts here admits to being anything but a firearm skygod.

DZ.COM must be the Lake Wobegon of guns.

So where are all the below average gun owners? I guess they're in the police, or firearms instructors who shoot themselves.

I believe you admit to owning several guns.

Soooooo, what does that say about you? Mr. Firearm Skygod?

I notice John has commented on almost every other thread so far . . . Why would one think he didn't respond to this one?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[baronn 111]

Yes. I grew up in Detroit in the early 80's. Murder capital of the world for many years. I've been stabbed, shot at twice and hit once. I had a carjacking attempt from an idiot with a knife. After Concealed Carry laws were passed, murders and crimes from handguns dramatically declined. If a perp attempted to rob a store, they were lucky if all they heard was "click". Most times the last thing they heard was "bang". True gun control means a 4" pattern at 25'

[kallend 1,620]

turtlespeed

*********

So make up your mind - is my specific scenario not the same as the general statistics, or am I a skygod pretending that they are? You can't even maintain your bullshit for two sentences in a row!

Maybe you ARE a firearm skygod.

But the funny thing is that not a single one of the gun owners who posts here admits to being anything but a firearm skygod.

DZ.COM must be the Lake Wobegon of guns.

So where are all the below average gun owners? I guess they're in the police, or firearms instructors who shoot themselves.

I believe you admit to owning several guns.

Soooooo, what does that say about you? Mr. Firearm Skygod?

I notice John has commented on almost every other thread so far . . . Why would one think he didn't respond to this one?

The number of guns I possess is none of your business.

I will state that I have managed to avoid shooting either myself or anyone else. That, however, does not mean that I am so good that I consider it an impossibility, unlike the gungods who post on here.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[toolbox 0]

>After concealed carry laws were passed,murders and crimes from handguns dramatically declined.

Funny how thugs think twice about attacking someone when they think the potential victim might shoot back.

[kallend 1,620]

toolbox

>After concealed carry laws were passed,murders and crimes from handguns dramatically declined.

Funny how thugs think twice about attacking someone when they think the potential victim might shoot back.

Of course, violent crime rates also declined in places without such laws during the same time frame.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[danornan 64]

winsor

******

So make up your mind - is my specific scenario not the same as the general statistics, or am I a skygod pretending that they are? You can't even maintain your bullshit for two sentences in a row!

Maybe you ARE a firearm skygod.

But the funny thing is that not a single one of the gun owners who posts here admits to being anything but a firearm skygod.

DZ.COM must be the Lake Wobegon of guns.

So where are all the below average gun owners? I guess they're in the police, or firearms instructors who shoot themselves.

My limited exposure to the confluence of firearms and skydiving indicates that, in general, the skydivers who are not extremely competent with firearms are those that eschew them entirely.

Our population includes an inordinate number of Special Ops, Law Enforcement, and other heavily trained personnel. I know quite a few Class III manufacturers, dealers and licensees as well.

The number of active participants in Rifle, Pistol and Shotgun Competition is much higher than in the general population, and the level of technical expertise regarding shooting tends to be in the top 10% of people who show up for any class I have taught.

If you show up at a DZ with anything from a BB gun to a 16 inch naval rifle, dollars to donuts says there will be someone there who not only knows how to use it, but can use it supremely well.

The skydiving community may be a lot of things, but it is not, and likely will never be, reflective of the population at large. An unusual level of competence with firearms (again, among those who do not routinely avoid them) is typical of skydivers.


BSBD,

Winsor

An interesting thing happened at Z-Hills, in the late 80's early 90's when a young lady skydiver came racing up to the DZ, jumped out of her car and said to a bunch of skydivers that she was being chased down the road by some idiot with a gun. Almost immediately, at least a dozen or so skydivers ran to their cars, came back with guns and aimed them at the intruder as he came down the road. (at least as I remember!)

He quickly skidded to a stop and went back the way he came in and all the guns were put away. I didn't realize at the time how many were carrying.... I don't think any shots were fired.

Dano

[Boogers 0]

kallend

The number of guns I possess is none of your business.

Is it also none of the government's business?