champu 1 #126 February 26, 2014 SivaGanesha***That, my friend, isn't discrimination. That is complying with the law to ensure they don't sell to people under 21. No it is clearly discrimination. It is possible to comply with the law without discriminating simply by requiring ID of EVERYONE purchasing alcohol--even the elderly--and there ARE places that sell alcohol that do just this to avoid discrimination. To do anything else is discrimination IMHO. They are not doing that to avoid alleged discrimination against 20-somethings caused by making said 20-somethings show ID. They are doing that to keep from losing their liquor license. Your line of argument here is idiotic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 123 #127 February 27, 2014 QuoteMany businesses already discriminate on the basis of age. Should this be legal? stop being asinine. SOCIETY as a whole has decided that being 21 is the age for drinking and that harsh penalties shall be imposed on those that sell to underage people. That is not discriminating based on age. SOCIETY has now decided that gay marriage is OK, gay is normal and we has stopped or begun to stop discriminating against that. All we are doing with the recent pro-gay laws is protecting people, just like protection of kids from getting booze. Booze is still legal, it just has an age limit. SOCIETY has decided these standards. Go ahead. start a petition to remove age barriers from alcohol and see how far you get. SOCIETY will decide that you are full of shit most likely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,046 #128 February 27, 2014 Hi John, Gov. Brewer just vetoed it. http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/politics/arizona-brewer-bill/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 254 #129 February 27, 2014 Good.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #130 February 27, 2014 JerryBaumchenHi John, Gov. Brewer just vetoed it. http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/politics/arizona-brewer-bill/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 JerryBaumchen Smart lady!Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #131 February 27, 2014 tkhayesstop being asinine. SOCIETY as a whole has decided that being 21 is the age for drinking and that harsh penalties shall be imposed on those that sell to underage people. That is not discriminating based on age. You are missing my point. I'm not arguing against a business following the law when it comes to underage drinking. I'm arguing against a business carding some people and not others in the name of "following the law". If society has truly agreed that drinking underage or serving underage people is a very serious matter, as you suggest, then businesses should have no problem with carding everyone in a non-discriminatory fashion. It's when you card some people and not others that you have discrimination. If it's the law, a business should be allowed no discretion whatsoever as to how to enforce it. Otherwise you allow a business the opportunity to practice discrimination in the name of enforcing the law--and that is wrong even if the law itself is a good law. Although the issue wasn't specifically age discrimination, have a look at the following website for evidence that carding policy by bars can, indeed, lead to claims of discrimination: http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/under-pressure-from-city-madison-bars-end-controversial-id-policy/article_107d6022-0cc4-11e1-8f93-001cc4c03286.html tkhayesSOCIETY has now decided that gay marriage is OK, gay is normal and we has stopped or begun to stop discriminating against that. All we are doing with the recent pro-gay laws is protecting people, just like protection of kids from getting booze. Booze is still legal, it just has an age limit. I'm opposed to discrimination in ALL its forms whether "society" agrees with me or not. I don't form my opinions based on what "society" considers to be politically correct at the present time. tkhayesSOCIETY has decided these standards. Go ahead. start a petition to remove age barriers from alcohol and see how far you get. SOCIETY will decide that you are full of shit most likely. It depends what you mean by "society". The trend to end discrimination against gay and lesbian people has broad international support. Yes, there are shameful exceptions like Russia and Uganda--but I think you will find that the trend on a worldwide basis is to relax and do away with laws that discriminate against gay and lesbian people. The USA was by no means the first Western democracy to legalize gay marriage, but the USA has followed (not led) the international trend to legalize gay marriage. The USA has done the right thing, but as a follower, not as a leader. Not so when it comes to the drinking age of 21. There you I think you will find that the USA is significantly out of step with most of the rest of the world--and it is only a few ultraconservative countries (outside of the USA) that set the drinking age at 21. Internationally the norm seems to more be 18: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age Very few countries outside the USA seem to have followed the USA's lead in raising the drinking age to 21."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #132 February 27, 2014 Remster Quote THAT appears to be in the hands of Gov. Brewer now. A heartfelt thank you, Gov. Brewer, for the veto. I may not agree with all the Arizonian policies, but thank you very much for the veto. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #133 February 27, 2014 quade That, my friend, isn't discrimination. That is complying with the law to ensure they don't sell to people under 21. Geebus. Next somebody is going to say businesses discriminate against people with shit on their hands because they post signs in the restrooms that tell employees to wash their hands. Get a grip folks. but..but THIS will be to comply with the law too I, know, I know.. I'm just taking the piss. This potential law is TOXIC (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #134 February 27, 2014 mdrejhonA heartfelt thank you, Gov. Brewer, for the veto. I may not agree with all the Arizonian policies, but thank you very much for the veto. I, for one, will congratulate Gov Brewer twice: first for standing with the gay and lesbian people of Arizona, and secondly for, a little while back, standing against the illegal immigrants of Arizona. In my opinion she made the right call both times."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #135 February 27, 2014 shropshire but..but THIS will be to comply with the law too I, know, I know.. I'm just taking the piss. This potential law is TOXIC Yeah, well, when it comes to the "toxic" graphic you posted, last time I checked, you Brits didn't exactly take kindly to illegal immigrants moving into your precious islands in the South Atlantic. Gov Brewer is a tough b***h not to be messed with--just like Prime Minister Thatcher before her."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #136 February 27, 2014 How is that post relevant?P.S they were not illegal immigrants.. they were an INVADING ARMY (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 185 #137 February 27, 2014 shropshire How is that post relevant?P.S they were not illegal immigrants.. they were an INVADING ARMY Well, they did not fill out the appropriate forms when they cleared Customs, so they were in violation of the odd Statute here and there. Again, it's all how you look at it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,618 #138 February 27, 2014 JerryBaumchenHi John, Gov. Brewer just vetoed it. http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/politics/arizona-brewer-bill/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 JerryBaumchen So the governor recognized that gay people, their friends and families, have money, buy stuff, and go to touristy places. Pity the AZ legislators were so stupid. As one paper put it, AZ may have kept the 2015 Super Bowl but it lost the 2014 Image Bowl.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #139 February 27, 2014 mdrejhon *** Quote THAT appears to be in the hands of Gov. Brewer now. A heartfelt thank you, Gov. Brewer, for the veto. I may not agree with all the Arizonian policies, but thank you very much for the veto. As much as I'm with you on this, Mark; and Yes, she ultimately did The Right Thing, I don't think she did it because she felt it was The Right Thing To Do from an ethical or social-policy standpoint. She did it out of purely political and financial calculation. Put another way: Make no mistake, she's not your friend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #140 February 27, 2014 kallend***Hi John, Gov. Brewer just vetoed it. http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/politics/arizona-brewer-bill/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 JerryBaumchen So the governor recognized that gay people, their friends and families, have money, buy stuff, and go to touristy places. Pity the AZ legislators were so stupid. As one paper put it, AZ may have kept the 2015 Super Bowl but it lost the 2014 Image Bowl. So how much did this stupidity cost the tax payers of Arizona? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #141 February 27, 2014 Quote So how much did this stupidity cost the tax payers of Arizona? Probably not that much. It's not like the legislators do anything real work anyway. And, I think Robo-Gov managed to kill the bill before any significant economic damage was done. And Andy: you are totally right about her motives. Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,618 #142 February 27, 2014 Remster Quote So how much did this stupidity cost the tax payers of Arizona? Probably not that much. It's not like the legislators do anything real work anyway. Let's hope they can afford their one-way tickets to Kampala. Uganda is very hospitable to bigots right now.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #143 February 27, 2014 kallend *** Quote So how much did this stupidity cost the tax payers of Arizona? Probably not that much. It's not like the legislators do anything real work anyway. Let's hope they can afford their one-way tickets to Kampala. Uganda is very hospitable to bigots right now. Yes indeed.. pretty much open season there... just like most of Mother Russia. Or they can stay closer to home and take a nice little trip to Florida when its open season on young black men.. pretty much the same mindset. http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html Stand your ground for Christ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #144 February 27, 2014 Amazon Yes indeed.. pretty much open season there... just like most of Mother Russia. I think Johnny Weir (the gay figure skater) would disagree. Just watch his interview with Keith Olbermann before the Olympics. Sure, there are problems there, but I think the media inflates them quite a bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #145 February 27, 2014 Elisha*** Yes indeed.. pretty much open season there... just like most of Mother Russia. I think Johnny Weir (the gay figure skater) would disagree. Just watch his interview with Keith Olbermann before the Olympics. Sure, there are problems there, but I think the media inflates them quite a bit. Yeah I watched some of his interviews from Sochi... I am sure Putin made sure that no foreign visitors would be way laid.. BUT in the hinterlands... you can find plenty of youtube vids to find how the "rest" of the country is doin... http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gay+beatings+in+russia&sm=3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #146 February 27, 2014 Quote I am sure Putin made sure that no foreign visitors would be way laid.. I see what you did there Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pacific 0 #147 February 28, 2014 kallendUnbelievable! www.courthousenews.com/2014/02/21/65519.htm And Kansas Republicans are trying to do the same. Sounds rational to me. I choose my own friends. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #148 February 28, 2014 Andy9o8 Quote I am sure Putin made sure that no foreign visitors would be way laid.. I see what you did there Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rifleman 61 #149 March 1, 2014 A little something form Facebook - if only it were possible.Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #150 March 1, 2014 Bwhaaaaaaaaaaaa (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
