Buy guns on Facebook

[CornishChris 5]

Is this a good idea, P2P selling of firearms?:

https://www.facebook.com/GunSellerz

Is it even legal?

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[regulator 0]

https://www.facebook.com/GunSellerz

[regulator 0]

Post your gun for sale along with DESCRIPTION, PHOTO, PRICE and CONTACT INFO , What STATE you are in and we will repost it for millions of potential buyers to see!

It might be just me...but I'll pay the few dollars difference and get my firearms through a respected dealer (my father) and not get set up. This sounds like a craigslist setup to me.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

CornishChris

Is this a good idea, P2P selling of firearms?:

https://www.facebook.com/GunSellerz

Is it even legal?

Legal?

Under certain circumstances, yes.
But not everywhere.

Most places allow "private party purchase" of firearms if the sale doesn't cross state lines.
Some don't. California, for example, requires background checks and a formal dealer transfer for any firearms transfer.
If the sale crosses state lines, then the federal laws apply and the transfer must be made through a licensed dealer.

This was one of the big issues last year with all the new laws that were proposed (and ultimately failed).

Good idea?

That's a whole different question.

How smart is it to post an ad for a gun?
That tells everyone in the world what you have and where you are?

I volunteer as a range officer at a local shooting range, and I've seen a few people arrange to meet a potential buyer there. Neutral location, a place where the buyer can try the gun out, preserves the sellers security.
And perfectly legal.
I know people who won't sell a gun themselves. They either sell it directly to a dealer or sell it on consignment through a local dealer. They lose some money, but the potential security risk makes it worth it to them.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[kawisixer01 0]

Legal in most places, the law talk last year was nothing but grand standing, as outright anonymous sales are extremely rare. Most people use these types of sites only for listing and arranging the details of the sale. Every person I know that has ever done a deal through such a site either arranged to meet at a gun shop to do the transfer through a licensed gun dealer or at the very minimum required the buyer to show up with a current and valid concealed carry permit and conducted their own public record search on the buyer (free and public record in WI). With the way that people have sued and how prosecutors have sometimes went after people who have sold to those who can't posses guns, not many straight up people are willing to do sales without some form of background checking or CYA.

[DanG 1]

Quote

How smart is it to post an ad for a gun?
That tells everyone in the world what you have and where you are?

As opposed to posting an ad for a TV or a motorcycle?

- Dan G

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

DanG

Quote

How smart is it to post an ad for a gun?
That tells everyone in the world what you have and where you are?

As opposed to posting an ad for a TV or a motorcycle?

True to a large degree. There are lots of "Craig's List Robbery Horror Stories" out there.

But guns are an attractive target, similar to jewelry, IMHO.
Small, high value, easy to sell.

Unlike a TV (big, hard to stick in a pocket) or a motorcycle (title records and registration requirements make it harder to sell)

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[kallend 1,623]

wolfriverjoe

***

Quote

How smart is it to post an ad for a gun?
That tells everyone in the world what you have and where you are?

As opposed to posting an ad for a TV or a motorcycle?

True to a large degree. There are lots of "Craig's List Robbery Horror Stories" out there.

But guns are an attractive target, similar to jewelry, IMHO.
Small, high value, easy to sell.



Cash, jewelry, firearms and electronics are burglars' favorite targets.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyCoi 0]

I belong to a few gun groups on FB, and have bought and sold a variety of weapons, ammunition and optics. As a general rule, while very protective of their second amendment rights these folks are extremely professional and all transactions I have ever been a part of have been completely legal and include FFL-sponsored transfers. Gun "enthusiasts" are often building and selling weapons in the secondary market simply to support their love of building and firing weapons. There's nothing sneaky going on here.

[quade 3]

SkyCoi

I belong to a few gun groups on FB, and have bought and sold a variety of weapons, ammunition and optics. As a general rule, while very protective of their second amendment rights these folks are extremely professional and all transactions I have ever been a part of have been completely legal and include FFL-sponsored transfers. Gun "enthusiasts" are often building and selling weapons in the secondary market simply to support their love of building and firing weapons. There's nothing sneaky going on here.

Except maybe, you know, an enormous loophole in the laws requiring background checks.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rhaig 0]

quade

***I belong to a few gun groups on FB, and have bought and sold a variety of weapons, ammunition and optics. As a general rule, while very protective of their second amendment rights these folks are extremely professional and all transactions I have ever been a part of have been completely legal and include FFL-sponsored transfers. Gun "enthusiasts" are often building and selling weapons in the secondary market simply to support their love of building and firing weapons. There's nothing sneaky going on here.

Except maybe, you know, an enormous loophole in the laws requiring background checks.

did you read the whole post or just the last line and then kneejerk reply?

did you read the part about "FFL-sponsored transfers"?

--
Rob

[quade 3]

rhaig

******I belong to a few gun groups on FB, and have bought and sold a variety of weapons, ammunition and optics. As a general rule, while very protective of their second amendment rights these folks are extremely professional and all transactions I have ever been a part of have been completely legal and include FFL-sponsored transfers. Gun "enthusiasts" are often building and selling weapons in the secondary market simply to support their love of building and firing weapons. There's nothing sneaky going on here.

Except maybe, you know, an enormous loophole in the laws requiring background checks.

did you read the whole post or just the last line and then kneejerk reply?

did you read the part about "FFL-sponsored transfers"?

IF you are telling me all of these transactions are 100% on the up and up, well, that's an extraordinary position to take.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rhaig 0]

quade

IF you are telling me all of these transactions are 100% on the up and up, well, that's an extraordinary position to take.

you don't believe transfers by licensed firearms dealers are "on the up and up"? And what would you change about the system to prevent that? (aside from not having the ATF tell them to sell to people that are suspected of trafficking weapons to Mexican drug lords)

Or were you just not clear on what an FFL-sponsored transfer meant?

--
Rob

[Andy9o8 0]

OK, cutting thru the usual posturing on both sides.... Let's assume some FB gun ads & transactions are legally on the up & up, while others try to skirt the law. (Just like, for example, some "date ads" on Craiglist are legit, while others just front for prostitution.) So, re: the gun ads on FB, would you hazard a guess as to what portion of end transactions are fully legal and what portion are not?

[freakflyer9999 1]

quade

***I belong to a few gun groups on FB, and have bought and sold a variety of weapons, ammunition and optics. As a general rule, while very protective of their second amendment rights these folks are extremely professional and all transactions I have ever been a part of have been completely legal and include FFL-sponsored transfers. Gun "enthusiasts" are often building and selling weapons in the secondary market simply to support their love of building and firing weapons. There's nothing sneaky going on here.

Except maybe, you know, an enormous loophole in the laws requiring background checks.

There is not a Federal law that requires background checks for private party transactions that do not cross state lines. There are a few states that have laws requiring them, but at the moment that is the exception rather than the rule across the US.

I have bought and sold several firearms without background checks. I have also bought numerous firearms with a background check and as long as I maintain my Concealed Handgun License, there isn't a requirement for another background check when I purchase from a dealer or across state lines. I do have to complete the paperwork on those transactions, just the dealer isn't required to do the NICS check on me.

BTW, I also admin one of those Facebook groups though not a nationwide one. Our members are in the local area.

[regulator 0]

quade

*********I belong to a few gun groups on FB, and have bought and sold a variety of weapons, ammunition and optics. As a general rule, while very protective of their second amendment rights these folks are extremely professional and all transactions I have ever been a part of have been completely legal and include FFL-sponsored transfers. Gun "enthusiasts" are often building and selling weapons in the secondary market simply to support their love of building and firing weapons. There's nothing sneaky going on here.

Except maybe, you know, an enormous loophole in the laws requiring background checks.

did you read the whole post or just the last line and then kneejerk reply?

did you read the part about "FFL-sponsored transfers"?

IF you are telling me all of these transactions are 100% on the up and up, well, that's an extraordinary position to take.


Sounds like you have personal knowledge that there Isn't 100% legal transactions on this page. If not then your comment is purely speculation and should be treated as such.

[quade 3]

I don't have personal knowledge that somebody is cheating at a card table right now in Las Vegas.

That said, I am 100% certain there is.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rhaig 0]

Andy9o8

OK, cutting thru the usual posturing on both sides.... Let's assume some FB gun ads & transactions are legally on the up & up, while others try to skirt the law. (Just like, for example, some "date ads" on Craiglist are legit, while others just front for prostitution.) So, re: the gun ads on FB, would you hazard a guess as to what portion of end transactions are fully legal and what portion are not?

you seem to know a lot about these prostitution ads...

but anyway...


I'm sure there are some that do face to face transactions with firearms that don't use a background check (these are perfectly legal transactions). There may even be some that ship firearms across state lines without using an FFL. I won't hazard a guess because I don't have enough information. My point is that there are already laws that make those transactions illegal. I don't care what FB does policy wise. That's their call.

--
Rob

[Hooknswoop 19]

Are you for requiring background checks for private, person to person firearm sales?

If yes, how would you enforce such a law?

Derek V

[quade 3]

Hooknswoop

Are you for requiring ...

I am not requiring anything.
Neither is the government.
That is the issue.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

I am not requiring anything.

I know you are not. You cannot require anything. That is not what I asked. I asked;

"Are you for requiring background checks for private, person to person firearm sales?

If yes, how would you enforce such a law? "

Derek V

[quade 3]

Hooknswoop

Are you for requiring background checks for private, person to person firearm sales?

If yes, how would you enforce such a law?

I don't think it would be horrible to have background checks for the transfer of guns. This could be facilitated by any FFL same as if they were selling a gun themselves, but the record keeping responsibility becomes that of the seller.

As for "enforcing" it I'm thinking the same laws that apply to FFLs would apply to the seller (the previous owner) in private, person to person firearms sales along with the same punishments for non-compliance.

Probably need to carve out an exemption for directly inherited weapons.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

I don't think it would be horrible to have background checks for the transfer of guns. This could be facilitated by any FFL same as if they were selling a gun themselves, but the record keeping responsibility becomes that of the seller.

I agree.

Quote

As for "enforcing" it I'm thinking the same laws that apply to FFLs would apply to the seller (the previous owner) in private, person to person firearms sales along with the same punishments for non-compliance.

I'm not following you. If I sell one of my guns to a friend of mine, how would law enforcement ever know? There is a new law in CO requiring background checks for private sales. The sheriffs oppose it, since there is no way they can enforce it.

I'm not against background checks for private sales, I just don't see the point in passing a law requiring them. We have that in CO and it is pointless, doesn't change anything.

Derek V

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

quade

***Are you for requiring background checks for private, person to person firearm sales?

If yes, how would you enforce such a law?

I don't think it would be horrible to have background checks for the transfer of guns. This could be facilitated by any FFL same as if they were selling a gun themselves, but the record keeping responsibility becomes that of the seller.

As for "enforcing" it I'm thinking the same laws that apply to FFLs would apply to the seller (the previous owner) in private, person to person firearms sales along with the same punishments for non-compliance.

Probably need to carve out an exemption for directly inherited weapons.

Well, California has a requirement along those lines. They require a FFL transfer for any private party purchase.
And, from what I have heard, it has gotten either difficult or expensive to have it done.

The law set requirements for FFL dealers to offer transfers for people, but my understanding is that they are largely being ignored.

Having records of all the transfers also opens the door to total registration. Given previous experience with that (in California among other places) that will be vigorously opposed.

Some sort of "Buyer's Card" or Firearms Owner ID card would be an option. It shows that the person has passed a background check and is legal to buy a gun. It doesn't track the actual sale of the gun, so no registration issues. The seller could record the card number as proof that the buyer was legal to acquire the gun.

And it is currently illegal to sell (or in any way provide) a gun to someone who is known to the seller to be ineligible to own one.
Those crimes are prosecuted at a rate slightly higher than attempts to purchase by prohibited persons.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[regulator 0]

quade

***Are you for requiring ...

I am not requiring anything.
Neither is the government.
That is the issue.

Perhaps they considered it but realized it wasn't feasable to pull off.