Glock Vs. Springfield Armory

[regulator 0]

OK I recently completed all the criteria for me to get my Texas CHL. It should be coming in soon and while I'm getting a free pistol from my father for getting it. The first link is what I will be getting from my dad for completing the class. But I wanted to buy my own pistol for carrying. I have narrowed it down to a Glock and a Springfield Armory XDm

http://www.basspro.com/Smith-&-Wesson-SD40-VE-Semi-Automatic-Pistol/product/12080905021719/


Choice #1

http://www.basspro.com/GLOCK-G23-Compact-High-Capacity-Pistol/product/10218274/


Choice #2

http://www.basspro.com/Springfield-Armory-XD(M)-3-8-High-Capacity-Pistol/product/10218660/


Now make no mistake. I am only interested in one caliber.

.40 S&W. I want more power than a 9mm, but want to have better control than a .45 in case I have to unload multiple rounds.


I know all about the Glocks but wanted to get some input on The Springfield XD's and see if you guys thought they were up to snuff.

Thanks

[normiss 620]

I could never find a .40 that I could carry concealed comfortably.
9mm, all day long, but the .40 is just too big a frame for my taste.
It does fit in the truck console real nice though, as well as the tuck spot in the side of the seat.


Nice choices though!


ETA: I LOVE Sigs. I have always wanted the SAS .40. That is one real sweet piece.

[rhaig 0]

regulator

I have narrowed it down to a Glock and a Springfield Armory XDm

both reliable pistols. Slightly different grip angles. That's a point of preference. I shot a glock and loved it. Then I shot a 1911 and got used to that grip angle. Then my glock wasn't as comfortable. The XD series (in my opinion) is a better fit for me.

Quote

Now make no mistake. I am only interested in one caliber.

.40 S&W. I want more power than a 9mm, but want to have better control than a .45 in case I have to unload multiple rounds.

I've got through this discussion several times. Really it comes down to capacity, recoil management, and penetration.

With modern expanding ammo, over-penetration isn't as much an issue (which is the argument you hear from 9mm detractors). Penetration numbers I've seen for 9mm, .40 and .45ACP put .40 in last place at 10-11 inches (where many consider 12" to be the 'magic number').

The one-shot-stop discussion between the 3 calibers gives .45ACP the advantage, but only by about 2%. This difference can be cast out when you come to capacity discussion where .45ACP loses. 9mm actually beat out .40 in one shot stops by a negligible number.

Pistol rounds cause damage to a body almost exclusively in the wound channel. For this reason, expanding ammo is a must for a defensive purpose. The difference in this aspect between 9mm and .40 is 0.02".


Don't go with .40 for power or penetration. The difference isn't there in the numbers. It comes down to shot placement, recoil management, and capacity. You WILL have to unload multiple shots if you ever have to use your weapon in self defense. Expect that. Train that way. Control is as much a training issue as it is a weapon design issue.

All of the above said, I carry a 1911 in .45ACP. It's what I've trained with and what I'm comfortable with.

I am shopping for a 9mm though. I'm looking hard at the springfields.

--
Rob

[winsor 185]

regulator

OK I recently completed all the criteria for me to get my Texas CHL. It should be coming in soon and while I'm getting a free pistol from my father for getting it. The first link is what I will be getting from my dad for completing the class. But I wanted to buy my own pistol for carrying. I have narrowed it down to a Glock and a Springfield Armory XDm

http://www.basspro.com/Smith-&-Wesson-SD40-VE-Semi-Automatic-Pistol/product/12080905021719/


Choice #1

http://www.basspro.com/GLOCK-G23-Compact-High-Capacity-Pistol/product/10218274/


Choice #2

http://www.basspro.com/Springfield-Armory-XD(M)-3-8-High-Capacity-Pistol/product/10218660/


Now make no mistake. I am only interested in one caliber.

.40 S&W. I want more power than a 9mm, but want to have better control than a .45 in case I have to unload multiple rounds.


I know all about the Glocks but wanted to get some input on The Springfield XD's and see if you guys thought they were up to snuff.

Thanks

As far as the three plinkers you listed, they are all quite reliable and effective. It comes down to the one on which you would stake your life.l

Given a satisfactory level of reliability and ergonomics, there are three major criteria for a carry pistol - size, weight and stopping power. The first two are related to actually having it on hand, and the last only matters if you are ever unfortunate enough to have to use it.

Double stack .40s tend to be pretty chunky, even in their truncated form. The plastic variants are reasonably light, so that makes their bulk a little better to tolerate. They are not given to rust, so leaving them somewhere given to sweat is not as much of an issue.

Depending on quite how you will be carrying, you may want to rethink your options. I know people who got a popular setup after careful review, but found they were likely to leave it at home because it was a real pain in the ass to schlep around all the time. The first rule of a gunfight is: have a gun.

A smaller caliber in a lightweight single stack DAO version may well be the way to go. Kahr and Kel-Tec have firearms that go 'bang' when necessary but stay completely out of the way at all other times. There is a lot to be said for that.

Like a lot things, your personal opinion is likely to change greatly after a few years of experience. Also, there is no formula that is ideal for everyone. My suggestion is to set up the Smith, use it for a while and only then gravitate to your newly developed personal preference.

Bear in mind that a defensive firearm is a lot like an emergency parachute - if you ever have to use it, you are in pretty deep shit to begin with and your sole goal should be survival in largely undamaged condition. If you really need it, it may well be insufficient for the task REGARDLESS of what it is and how you go about using it.

My personal recommendation is to get a good set of sneakers and learn how to use them. If it ever seems likely that the firearm might be useful, the running shoes may do a better job of keeping you alive. A moving target is hard to hit, as are distant targets. A defensive firearm need only provide you the opportunity to run like hell.

As a final remark, staying in practice with both the firearm and the running shoes is a very good idea. Pick a sidearm that you like to shoot, and get a pair of high velocity shoes that you like.


BSBD,

Winsor

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

winsor

...Depending on quite how you will be carrying, you may want to rethink your options. I know people who got a popular setup after careful review, but found they were likely to leave it at home because it was a real pain in the ass to schlep around all the time. The first rule of a gunfight is: have a gun.

A smaller caliber in a lightweight single stack DAO version may well be the way to go. Kahr and Kel-Tec have firearms that go 'bang' when necessary but stay completely out of the way at all other times. There is a lot to be said for that.



...My personal recommendation is to get a good set of sneakers and learn how to use them. If it ever seems likely that the firearm might be useful, the running shoes may do a better job of keeping you alive. A moving target is hard to hit, as are distant targets. A defensive firearm need only provide you the opportunity to run like hell.

As a final remark, staying in practice with both the firearm and the running shoes is a very good idea. Pick a sidearm that you like to shoot, and get a pair of high velocity shoes that you like.


BSBD,

Winsor

I don't agree with you on everything, but I sure do on this.

A 40 is a fairly big gun. Even the little ones aren't all that small.
And even the polymer ones aren't all that light (lighter than steel, but still a fair amount of weight).

Even a 32 or 380 that you have on you is better than the biggest, most powerful pistol that you left behind because it was too much of a hassle to carry.

"Stopping Power" for pistols is pretty much a joke. Nothing that you can shoot in one hand has much of it. The attacker is going to stop for neurological reasons (nerves or spinal cord or brain is damaged) physiological reasons (usually bleeding out, which takes time) or psychological reasons (getting shot takes the fight out of them).
The first two are going to be a result of shot placement, regardless of caliber. The second depends on the attacker.

In any case, running away should be high on your choices list.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[regulator 0]

All good points taken.

[beowulf 1]

SA is just as good as Glock. You really need to go to a range and rent both and see which you like better.

[beowulf 1]

normiss

I could never find a .40 that I could carry concealed comfortably.
9mm, all day long, but the .40 is just too big a frame for my taste.
It does fit in the truck console real nice though, as well as the tuck spot in the side of the seat.


Nice choices though!


ETA: I LOVE Sigs. I have always wanted the SAS .40. That is one real sweet piece.

The Glock 23 is the same size as a Glock 19. I have the G19 and like it better then the G23 because it's easier to manage the recoil and I don't really see much advantage to the .40sw over the 9mm when using self defense ammunition.

[beowulf 1]

If I remember right the percentage of GSW victims that live is very high. Most die from exsanguination because they aren't able to get medical help quick enough. So like you said shot placement matters most. One shot kills are very rare.

http://youtu.be/wXwPtP-KDNk

[steve1 5]

There's so many pistols out there that I was at a loss when it came to picking one out. I know a lot more about rifles than pistols.

My brother worked law enforcement for thirty years. He carried a Glock 10 mm. and he loved that gun. I didn't really like the looks or feel of it, at first. The thought of a plastic gun turned me off.

I finally bought a Glock 26 in 9 mm, for concealed carry. It was a little fat but I grew to like it. It shoots almost as easy as a bigger pistol.

Then I bought a Glock 19 in 9mm. I just love that pistol. It's accurate, reliable, and fits my hands well. I don't have huge hands.

The angle of the grip is steeper than most other pistols. If you shoot other pistols this may make a difference in how you shoot. It takes a while to get used to.

The people on these forums helped me with my choice of pistol. I'm glad I chose Glock. There is a reason that so many law enforcement agencies, and military choose that brand.

I like the larger magazine capacity of 9 mm. A double stack is a little fat, but the new Glocks have a grip that should fit your hand. It's light recoil makes it easy to shoot. With the right bullet it would be a good choice for defensive purposes. I've heard that even the FBI is picking the 9 mm for their duty pistols.

I plan to put a custom barrel and new sights on my Glock 19. That may make this already accurate pistol, more so.

I've never shot a Springfield Armory pistol. That might be another great choice.

That's my two cents worth....

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

beowulf

SA is just as good as Glock. You really need to go to a range and rent both and see which you like better.

Bingo. Springfield makes good stuff. So does Glock. So does S&W, H&K Sig, CZ, Beretta and on and on.

The pistol that is best for you is the one you like best, fits your hand best and that you can shoot the best.

That is a very personal and individual choice. The best way to make that choice is to hold and shoot as many as you can.

Personally, I'm a 1911 guy. With my training, experience and personal preferences, that is what suits me best. I'm not a big fan of the triggers on the striker fired "duty" type pistols (Glock, S&W M&P, SA XD, ect). I much prefer the short, light single action trigger on a good 1911. That comes with the "cost" of having a thumb safety that needs to be taken off before the pistol will fire, but I have trained with that enough that it's second nature.

I've shot Glocks and XDs and a bunch of others, and they are very good pistols, but they aren't my first choice. One of the benefits of volunteering as a range officer is when a shooter asks "Do you want to try my pistol?"

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[sfzombie13 307]

as far as stopping power for a pistol, the judge is hared to beat. the new rounds i saw that are made for self defense are pretty awesome, but a good 3" magnum slug is hard to beat. they are a little large for concealed carry, but i am going to get one at tax time this year.

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[RonD1120 58]

I purchased a Springfield XDm 9mm, 3.8 in for concealed carry and found it bulky and uncomfortable inside my waistband. In a shoulder holster it is very comfortable.

Next I purchased a Ruger LC9 and it is my primary carry weapon.

All of the retired LEO's I know carry a 380. I am thinking of obtaining one of those as well.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[beowulf 1]

Glock has just come out with a .380, it's the G42.

[PiLFy 0]

My $0.02? I've fired several different Glocks, & liked all but their tiny 9mm. They work very well, & are practically indestructible. Conversely, I've two friends w/XDs. Both XDs have proven to be temperamental, & very picky eaters.

I vote Glock. The G23 is an excellent all around weapon.

[xsniper 1]

wolfriverjoe

***SA is just as good as Glock. You really need to go to a range and rent both and see which you like better.

Bingo. Springfield makes good stuff. So does Glock. So does S&W, H&K Sig, CZ, Beretta and on and on.

The pistol that is best for you is the one you like best, fits your hand best and that you can shoot the best.

That is a very personal and individual choice. The best way to make that choice is to hold and shoot as many as you can.

Personally, I'm a 1911 guy. With my training, experience and personal preferences, that is what suits me best. I'm not a big fan of the triggers on the striker fired "duty" type pistols (Glock, S&W M&P, SA XD, ect). I much prefer the short, light single action trigger on a good 1911. That comes with the "cost" of having a thumb safety that needs to be taken off before the pistol will fire, but I have trained with that enough that it's second nature.

I've shot Glocks and XDs and a bunch of others, and they are very good pistols, but they aren't my first choice. One of the benefits of volunteering as a range officer is when a shooter asks "Do you want to try my pistol?"

As a full time firearms instructor, you are getting some good advice here. Most all of the major firearms companys make a good product. The key is to find the one that you like, trust, and can shoot well. You have found two good choices. There is no "best" gun, nor "magic" bullet. I too carry a Colt 1911. My advice...PRACTISE

[Channman 2]

I have the G23 and your right concerning concealment. I purchased the Blackhawks Serpa holster which work rather well it you have a over size coat. A nice button down shirt left untucked still provides a profile you are carrying and if you raise your arms it exposes the lower portion of the gun.

Therefore it remains in the center console of the car and or in a fanny pack when I'm fly camping using my Power Paraglider out in the sticks.

[rickjump1 0]

I just like a .45 pistol. I talked to a DEA guy who described being undercover in Mexico only to be surrounded at close range and shot multiple times with 9mm. He said he only went down after being hit once with a .45. He had buddies to confirm his story while he showed me the scars.

I have a Glock Model 36 .45. It's compact/easy carry, but only holds six in the magazine. I believe they have a newer compact model in .45, but I am looking for another pistol that holds more rounds in a .45 too.

Whatever you buy, you may want to consider carrying one or more spare magazines in proper pouches, and giving the magazine springs a rest once in a while.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[masterrig 1]

I think the advice given earlier in this thread about trying various handguns is very good. It's similar to buying a new parachute... try 'em all to find the one that suits you and what you are comfortable with.


Chuck

[regulator 0]

I spoke with my father and I want more info for 9mm vs. .40 s&w
So I am going to try a multitude out and see what works and what doesn't. I'll let you know what choice I made...

[regulator 0]

I just saw this. It might be a lil difficult to conceal though. :)

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/83811847/

[winsor 185]

regulator

I spoke with my father and I want more info for 9mm vs. .40 s&w
So I am going to try a multitude out and see what works and what doesn't. I'll let you know what choice I made...

The only purpose for a self-defense round is to stop an active attack, period. Trying to quantify quite what will do that is tough.

You have one shot kills with a BB gun and people who took multiple hits with a machine gun and survived (I was hospitalized with a couple), so there is no magic formula for what works and what doesn't. The Taylor Knockout formula emphasizes bullet mass and bullet area, while there are those who claim that Kinetic Energy is the key. Statistically, bullet construction is a big factor. In addition, the rules for high supersonic rounds seem to differ from the trans-sonic regime in which pistol cartridges operate.

Add to the variability of terminal ballistics the fact that the person who warrants lethal force may well be chock full of pain killer medicine, or enough fire water to render the brain a vestigial organ, and things can be very weird.

According to Evan Marshal's statistics, the most effective one-shot stopper was the 125 grain SJHP .357 Magnum and the 230 grain FMJ .45 acp was not far behind.

The one thing upon which all authorities agree is that shot placement is paramount. As the saying goes, a solid hit with a .22 LR is infinitely better than 6 misses with a .44 RM.

The bottom line is to have the most effective firearm that you can conceal with which you are SUPREMELY PROFICIENT. I placed respectably in a target match where the only pistol I had with me that day was a Stainless Walter PPK through which I had put many a round - keeping it in the black was child's play. Having used a pistol to keep meat in the pot for months at a time, I am absolutely confident regarding my use of a sidearm in the field against dangerous game.

I agree that a 1911A1 variant is close to ideal if you can keep it concealed (and really, really know how to use it), but the .380 with defensive ammunition has a superb track record in the hands of skilled practitioners.

If you are going to carry defensively, pick a sidearm that is 100% reliable, comfortable to carry, and learn to use it until it is second nature.

My heartfelt recommendation is to run away from a confrontation whenever you can, either before an attack can be mounted or after the attack has been halted, with one exception - if an innocent is at risk, you have the ethical responsibility to intervene.

Whichever firearm you master to the 'if I can see it, I can hit it' level will work just fine in the long run. I would include .22 LRs if it weren't for the inherent difference in reliability of rimfire priming.

Practice seriously and routinely, and do everything in your power to avoid ever having to break it out.


BSBD,

Winsor

[beowulf 1]

There are a lot of reasons to avoid shooting someone. One that wasn't mentioned is that even if you are justified you are highly likely to have to defend your actions in court. That could easily lead to bankruptcy. Or if it goes to a jury they could return a bad decision and you may end up in prison. Pulling that trigger must be a last resort when life is on the line and there is no other choice.

[toolbox 0]

Go with the biggest round you can handle and shoot good groups with. 9 mm or bigger will do the job if you shoot it well.
As far as the Glock vs Springfield thing,they are both good.
I like 1911 style pistols myself and I am very partial to the Para usa superhog long slide 1445's with 6 inch ramped barrels.

[airtwardo 6]

regulator

I spoke with my father and I want more info for 9mm vs. .40 s&w
So I am going to try a multitude out and see what works and what doesn't. I'll let you know what choice I made...

Personally, I use to use the Glock .357

I like the caliber, weight, the feel of the grip, accuracy & the controllability during rapid fire.

I put 100 rounds through it and the .40 and there was no question which I hit better with.

IMHO - .40 &.45's (the minis) just aren't really practical for an everyday thing. They're too fat, weigh too much & you have to practice hard core all the time to be satisfactorily proficient.

Yes - they have knockdown power...but that doesn't mean much if you don't hit the 10 ring.

That said ~ 6 months to a year after you lug around whatever super coolio auto feeder it is you finally choose...if you're like me, you'll end up with something like this;

http://smithandwessonguns.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/smith-wesson-340-pd-scandium-titanium-357-magnum.jpg

Super lightweight, accurate with stopping power, simple & reliable. The 125 gr. .357 SJHP has been the top of the pyramid for one shot stopping for as long as I can remember.

It has a laser in the grip, and not being a squarish lump... it fits nicely in front of or behind my hip bone.

Many times I forget I'm even wearing it...never had that problem with the Glock!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~