To vaccinate or not to vaccinate?

[quade 4]

turtlespeed

******
Yep. And I was against it being MANDATED, but not against it being available.

So tell us again, how is Obama responsible for HPV vaccinations being pushed on children, when it predates him?
According to what I read, the HPV4 is only recommended by the CDC.
At least 25 states require it. ACA requires it for wellness. This over rides the states that do not require it.

"Requires" the vaccinations or that insurance covers them?

Edited to add.

Certainly appears as if it is "required" the insurance covers the vaccinations. I see no language whatsoever that says the vaccinations themselves are "required" as a condition of ACA.

http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/facts/factsheets/2010/09/The-Affordable-Care-Act-and-Immunization.html

How anyone, including yourself, Turtle, can be against this is beyond my comprehension.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[headoverheels 330]

Iago

Chicken pox vaccine? Really? I had them and they weren't all that bad.

You probably are not going to like shingles as much.

[yoink 321]

turtlespeed

***So having children soon and have had conflicting stories.

Autism figures have changed from 1 in 10000 people in 1980 to more than 1 in 50 people now days...

Vaccines are made with crude methods using animal genes such as birds eggs and monkeys kidneys and contain metals such as mercury and aluminium...

Please give your educated opinion, does anyone have experience with adverse side effects, false/poor advice from medical practitioners?

It is a tough subject, this video has me swayed against vaccinations. It seem the science behind them is seriously flawed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1m3TjokVU4

Well yeah. The government says it is what you should do, and its part of Obamacare, so why wouldn't you?



Congrats. Your tirade against obamacare has sunk to a new low.


The vaccination question has been around long before Obama was - are you still capable of having any opinion that doesn't relate to the current government?

If not, I could replace all your posts with a very simple script that Meso could just plug into the website and save you all this repetitive typing nonsense.

[turtlespeed 212]

yoink

******So having children soon and have had conflicting stories.

Autism figures have changed from 1 in 10000 people in 1980 to more than 1 in 50 people now days...

Vaccines are made with crude methods using animal genes such as birds eggs and monkeys kidneys and contain metals such as mercury and aluminium...

Please give your educated opinion, does anyone have experience with adverse side effects, false/poor advice from medical practitioners?

It is a tough subject, this video has me swayed against vaccinations. It seem the science behind them is seriously flawed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1m3TjokVU4

Well yeah. The government says it is what you should do, and its part of Obamacare, so why wouldn't you?



Congrats. Your tirade against obamacare has sunk to a new low.


The vaccination question has been around long before Obama was - are you still capable of having any opinion that doesn't relate to the current government?

If not, I could replace all your posts with a very simple script that Meso could just plug into the website and save you all this repetitive typing nonsense.
These are the options given.

Quote

No Way!
Are you serious why wouldn't you!
I guess I have to.
Unsure

Now be good and read the rest of the thread.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PiLFy 0]

"E.g., if a vaccine were to use pigs, it might be unacceptable to orthodox Jews (unless essential to life). And they would try to find a good alternative."

I get your point, Wendy. This is purely as an aside:

There's an exception in Kosher law. Whenever your life is at stake. All bets are off. They're allowed to do what's necessary. Learned about it one day while following up w/a jewish patient, after his aortic valve was replaced w/a porcine one. He'd quipped "For God's sake, don't tell my rabbi..." Caught me totally off guard .

[jakee 1,426]

Quote

best i remember is that i have never had a shot before the age of 10. i know this is not true, there is even a schedule of immunizations i looked at once to prove it. and just who do you think you are telling me i am wrong?

Are you fucking kidding me? You don't have any figures, you know that your own recollection is wrong and yet you're getting pissy at having your assertion doubted?

Whom am I to say you're wrong? I'm someone who can count. 15x as many would be a righteous fuckload of vaccinations. Look at infant vaccinations, in the 1950's there were a maximum of 5 shots by age 2. 15x that would be 75. In the USA right now there are up to 24, with combination vaccines 10. That's why I say you're wrong.

Quote

my opinion, based on reading a lot and filtering most of it away, is we need to re-think the vaccination schedule. hep b at what age? yes, i suppose you could have a youngster exposed, but the odds would be extremely long.

Oh dear god.

The reason that it is extremely unlikely your child will be exposed to Hepatitis B is because the population is vaccinated and vaccinated early. Without a Hep B vaccination the disease would be endemic in the western world, just like it is elsewhere, and it would be very easy for your kids to get it.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,426]

Quote

Are you serious why wouldn't you!

Quote

Well yeah. The government says it is what you should do, and its part of Obamacare, so why wouldn't you?

So you're saying the fact that the government says you should is a reason why you shouldn't?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 212]

jakee

Quote

Are you serious why wouldn't you!

Quote

Well yeah. The government says it is what you should do, and its part of Obamacare, so why wouldn't you?

So you're saying the fact that the government says you should is a reason why you shouldn't?

No- I'm saying that the government say to is why people blindly follow.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jakee 1,426]

turtlespeed

***

Quote

Are you serious why wouldn't you!

Quote

Well yeah. The government says it is what you should do, and its part of Obamacare, so why wouldn't you?

So you're saying the fact that the government says you should is a reason why you shouldn't?

No- I'm saying that the government say to is why people blindly follow.

So you're not answering the OPs question in any way, just blindly attacking Obama at every opportunity.

So why did you bitch and moan when Andy, Quade et al pointed it out?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 60]

quade

*********You and your wife should discuss this issue with your family, your pastor and competent professionals.

Huh? Since when is a pastor's opinion on this important?
The object is to seek wise counsel.

Then let me restate the question. How the fuck does anybody believe a pastor's opinion on this is important? What special wisdom is imparted in seminary school regarding vaccinations?

There are two areas of life, one is physical and you consult medical professionals. The other area is spiritual and there you consult your pastor. Your family is both because it is your family.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wmw999 2,370]

That's where that "essential to life" aside came in. The term is pikuach nefesh, I believe.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

Andy9o8

Seriously, Clint, not every thread subject is an opportunity to invoke "Obama". You really dislike him; we get it. But look at the rest of the thread. Nobody's going to pay attention.

Barak Obama and Tom Hanks appeared in The Road We've Traveled.
Tom Hanks and Kevin Bacon appeared in Apollo 13.

With a Bacon number of 2, of course he's going to show up everywhere!

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[cryptocoin 0]

Quote

The appallingly poor judgment of people on the anti-vaccination side of this debate is shocking.

Actually I find it is pretty even.

I keep hearing, 'there are no studies linking vaccines to autism' and there is only one study linking vaccines to autism' etc.

But this is even considering I posted a very educational video on the very first post of this thread with the doctors and scientists that have conducted these studies.

The same banter continues so I post a bunch of links to such studies...

Then a stupid argument that is not related starts...

Whether or not the studies are conclusive in either direction, they have been done. It seems to me the pro vaccine fraternity are the ones that are not wiling to accept the results of studies.

This is not a conclusive subject on either side and I am inclined to believe a compromise is the best solution.

Quote

My kids are grown now. I don't have grandchildren yet, but once I do, please please keep your un-vaccinated kids them the hell away from them.

So you have been vaccinated for all the things that the kids are vaccinated for these days?

What are you protecting them from if an un-vaccinated child is a threat to them..?

If you can be vaccinated and still be at risk from that same disease/infection then what is the real point of vaccinating?

Some have suggested that my mind is well and truly made up, this is not the case. I am just interested in as much information as possible. Bickering can be amusing but it can also show who is bigoted and who is not.

I think I might focus my research into which vaccines are more important and proven than others.

[kallend 1,920]

Iago

My Uncle had Guianne-Barre (sp?) from an injection. It really fucked him up. He recovered but it took months of PT to get his strength back.

I dont think vaccines are bad. I think unnecessary vaccines are bad.

What falls in that category is a subject of much debate.

Chicken pox vaccine? Really? I had them and they weren't all that bad.

Wait 'til you get shingles - from the remnant Chicken Pox virus dormant in your body.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

I keep hearing, 'there are no studies linking vaccines to autism' and there is only one study linking vaccines to autism' etc.

No, you don't. If anything, you're cherry-picking to try to score a debate point. Weak.

[kallend 1,920]

In 1900 the life expectancies in the USA were:

Male 46
Female 48

We are now (2013)

Male 76
Female 81

There are 2 main reasons for the increase: Clean drinking water, and VACCINATIONS.

Not vaccinating your children is not only a dis-service to them, it is a dis-service to everyone they will come in contact with.

science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih1/diseases/images/activities/databases/measles_incidence.gif

In the early 1900s there were some 5300 deaths annually from measles in the USA. Measles had been almost eradicated in the US by the 1980s thanks to vaccinations. Now its having a resurgence primarily due to morons who refuse to get their kids vaccinated.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,392]

sfzombie13

so, either there is a much higher incidence of them, or they were way under diagnosed. or there could be a much higher rate of false diagnosis so that the industry can sell more medicine and make more money.

I don't think it really is that easy, or black and white.

Autism is not an easy diagnosis, nor is there a blood test or other "scientific" test that establishes with 100% certainty that sombody suffers from autism.

Autism is is really a whole spectrum of complex disorders of brain development. It is characterized by trouble in social interaction, verbal and non-verbal communication and repetitive behaviour.

There is not one type of autism, nor is there likely to be one cause of autism. We know it is more prevelant in boys than girls. We know that diagnosis is increasing.

There is also not a medication for autism. So your argument regarding Big Pharma is not that relevant. There are medications for several symptoms of autism. However, whether or not you call it autism, or you call it something else, those medications could still be prescribed for the symptoms.

If anything, it would be the opposite. Large fundraising companies are better served with a "disease" that affects a lot of people. Makes for better income. (No, I am not implying that to be the case here).

[SkyDekker 1,392]

Iago

******My Uncle had Guianne-Barre (sp?) from an injection. It really fucked him up. He recovered but it took months of PT to get his strength back.

I dont think vaccines are bad. I think unnecessary vaccines are bad.

What falls in that category is a subject of much debate.

Chicken pox vaccine? Really? I had them and they weren't all that bad.

Wait 'til you get shingles - from the remnant Chicken Pox virus dormant in your body.

Nobody in my family or extended family has ever gotten shingles.

I could get meningitis too.

Or pneumonia.

There's vaccines for those as well, but I'm not in a risk category.

Nobody in my family or extended family ever got polio. No need for me to get the polio vaccine.

(unless of course nobody got polio cause they got vaccinated.....nah, that's just stupid thinking)

[kallend 1,920]

Iago

******My Uncle had Guianne-Barre (sp?) from an injection. It really fucked him up. He recovered but it took months of PT to get his strength back.

I dont think vaccines are bad. I think unnecessary vaccines are bad.

What falls in that category is a subject of much debate.

Chicken pox vaccine? Really? I had them and they weren't all that bad.

Wait 'til you get shingles - from the remnant Chicken Pox virus dormant in your body.

Nobody in my family or extended family has ever gotten shingles.

I could get meningitis too.

Or pneumonia.

There's vaccines for those as well, but I'm not in a risk category.

You still carry the herpes zoster virus in your body, and "no family history" is no guarantee that you won't get shingles.

Fortunately, due to mass vaccinations, you are most unlikely to get polio or smallpox.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jsaxton 0]

http://io9.com/on-correlation-causation-and-the-real-cause-of-auti-1494972271

[normiss 749]

There is the possibility that's not the only reason.

[normiss 749]

[kallend 1,920]

Iago

************My Uncle had Guianne-Barre (sp?) from an injection. It really fucked him up. He recovered but it took months of PT to get his strength back.

I dont think vaccines are bad. I think unnecessary vaccines are bad.

What falls in that category is a subject of much debate.

Chicken pox vaccine? Really? I had them and they weren't all that bad.

Wait 'til you get shingles - from the remnant Chicken Pox virus dormant in your body.

Nobody in my family or extended family has ever gotten shingles.

I could get meningitis too.

Or pneumonia.

There's vaccines for those as well, but I'm not in a risk category.

You still carry the herpes zoster virus in your body, and "no family history" is no guarantee that you won't get shingles.

Fortunately, due to mass vaccinations, you are most unlikely to get polio or smallpox.

Correct, and we stopped vaccinating for smallpox in 1970s except for the 'risk categories.' Should we keep vaccinating everyone for smallpox so it doesn't reappear?

As I said, I don't think vaccines are bad. But because I think chicken pox falls in the 'not really necessary' list as mandatory I'm apparently a nitwit.

Clearly getting a shingles or pneumonia shot at age 50 isn't going to lead anyone's kid to autism (or anything else).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Stumpy 284]

And chemtrails. Don't forget chemtrails.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[billvon 2,874]

>It's 69 shots through age 18. Read the Link...

The link doesn't work, and through actual experience with a toddler, the above matches pretty closely what our pediatrician recommends. (Probably won't do the flu shots though.)