To vaccinate or not to vaccinate?

[jakee 1,254]

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Rubbish! I agree that people may demand pills but doctors are not taught enough about nutrition and they seldom use nutrition in their treatments.

Maybe that's because they can't control people every minute of every day.

Sit in the Dr's office and give 50 people a healthy eating plan. If all 50 of them say "yeah sure Doc, I'll give that a go" how many are back in McDonalds the next day?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Skyrad 0]

kelpdiver

***
I find it peculiar that my questioning certain vaccines has been translated into, 'I am not going to vaccinate'.

[followed by lots of statements that confirm this assessment, and finally by]

I think we will end up using some vaccines and not others and space them out a little more.

You've decided not to vaccinate. (Well, you decided that before the conversation even started.) Now it's just a question of how many diseases you will put your children (and society) at risk for.

Not sure why you raise nutrition as a topic. These sort of infectious diseases are not prevented by good nutrition.

To be fair to him by stating that he has chosen to use some vaccines and not others could mean that he will get the child vaccinated against the disease but use single shots rather than a multi load single vaccine. In which case he isn't saying that he is not going to vaccinate the child but will be selective over how its done. That is neither irresponsible or uneducated simply a matter of caution which is not a bad thing.
As for the comment about Drs and nutrition, I don't think that its so much a matter of poor education in nutrition on the doctors part rather than a) Dr's simply do not have the time to manage each patients diet, to do it properly takes longer than they have. B) Thats why there is a separate healthcare professional called a Dietician (At least thats what they are called in the UK). Dieticians work closely with Dr's in the clinical setting to address nutritional issues.

Interesting:

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/vaccine-preventable-outbreaks-are-real/

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[cryptocoin 0]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/07/02/new-study-finds-doctors-are-massively-overprescribing-drugs.aspx

Deaths from prescription drugs are more common than traffic deaths now.

[kallend 1,619]

cryptocoin

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/07/02/new-study-finds-doctors-are-massively-overprescribing-drugs.aspx

Deaths from prescription drugs are more common than traffic deaths now.

How many more would die without their prescription drugs?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,379]

>Deaths from prescription drugs are more common than traffic deaths now.

?? You seem to be sort of all over the place here. You said that people in general got too many vaccinations, and supported that by claiming they didn't get enough nutritional information. Now you are bringing in prescription drug abuse? The three are not very strongly related (although there is some overlap.) People do not get polio due to bad nutrition, and people who take fewer vaccinations are not safe from prescription drug misuse.

[cryptocoin 0]

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?? You seem to be sort of all over the place here.

You seem like a smart guy. Do you really fail to see a connection with those three subjects?

-lack of nutritional information
-overprescirption of medicine
-overprescription of vaccines

Do you really beleive the big pharma would rather we all ate better and did not need to use their products?

I am not completely against pharmaceuticals they are essential in the modern world, but they are in the business of making money at the end of the day. If they truly were in the business of making everybody healthy, then that would not be a very good business model, would it?

To suggest that big pharma does not have it's hand in the medical education process would simply be naive, would it not?

We live in a world where lobbyists have more influence than voters and politicians alike.

[kelpdiver 2]

cryptocoin

To suggest that big pharma does not have it's hand in the medical education process would simply be naive, would it not?

Please. People have known for at least 50 years that smoking is bad for you. People still do it. People have known longer the risks of being overweight, and in eating poorly. Or that drinking leads to a lot of car accidents and date rape and babies. Or that smoking crack is a really bad idea for a pregnant mother. Pharma has had zero success in preventing this knowledge, even if we accepted your ridiculous assertion that they're trying.

And we already covered this - big pharma wants to be known as the company that cured X. It's good for the rest of their business.

"Overvaccination" - if you insist on it - stems from the success of many doctors/companies in developing vaccines for the growing multitude of threats. Mosquitos in particular have very effectively spread the danger zones for many diseases - yellow fever, malaria, dengue fever, west nile. Fortunately a few are still somewhat restricted to their continent, but that is not likely to hold up.

if we get a vaccine for west nile or malaria or especially lyme, that's a step forward, not back. Hep C would be a big win too - much worse than B was. HIV is an obvious want - Gilead has dramatically improved the ability of the infected to cope, but considering it will kill 100s of millions, it's another disease we're better off erradicating.

[billvon 2,379]

>-lack of nutritional information
>-overprescirption of medicine
>-overprescription of vaccines

Like I said, none of them are strongly related. You can give someone all the nutritional information in the world; won't stop them from eating Big Macs all day. That's the problem. Not the lack of information, the lack of willpower.

All the nutritional information in the world will not reduce the need for synthroid for someone who has Hashimoto's disease.

Eating a perfectly balanced diet will not prevent you from getting polio if you are not vaccinated.

Avoiding drugs all your life will not help you once you are diagnosed with breast cancer.

They are _weakly_ related; someone who gets good nutritional information (and heeds it - important part) will likely need fewer vasodilators/statins later in life.

>Do you really beleive the big pharma would rather we all ate better and did not
>need to use their products?

No. Nor do they want everyone sick all the time. They want to make money - and if they can make money by selling dietary aids, they will. If they can make money selling guides to good eating, they will. If they can make money selling synthroid, they will.

You can, of course, choose which of their products you use. (And, of course, "BIG PHARMA" does not prescribe drugs.)

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Do you really beleive the big pharma would rather we all ate better and did not need to use their products?

There are some things you can lay at the door of big pharma and some things you can't. Fat, lazy fucks are not fat, lazy fucks because Big Pharma made them that way.

Quote

If they truly were in the business of making everybody healthy, then that would not be a very good business model, would it?

"Therefore Big Pharma must be making us all ill" is not a logical extension to that thought.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

I am not completely against pharmaceuticals they are essential in the modern world, but they are in the business of making money at the end of the day. If they truly were in the business of making everybody healthy, then that would not be a very good business model, would it?

Really? 'Pfizer..WE CURED BREAST CANCER.' as marketing slogans go that would pretty much be a competition killer.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[cryptocoin 0]

Quote

Really? 'Pfizer..WE CURED BREAST CANCER.' as marketing slogans go that would pretty much be a competition killer.

That is why Cannabis is not (allowed to be) promoted by the medical industry.

It is a competition killer.

There is already a (Natural and easily self medicated) cure/medication for most cancers, Pfizer (and the likes) cannot make money from that so they try to synthesize what is thought to be the active ingredients and try to flog that off instead.

This is kinda fair enough, but it is long overdue that the cannabis laws were repealed, the do nothing but hurt society on so many levels.

Quote

Breast Cancer
5. A study published in the US National Library of Medicine, conducted by the California Pacific Medical Centre determined that cannabidiol (CBD) inhibits human breast cancer cell proliferation and invasion. They also demonstrated that CBD significantly reduces tumour mass.

6. A study published in The Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics determined that THC as well as cannabidiol dramatically reduced breast cancer cell growth. They confirmed the potency and effectiveness of these compounds.

7. A study published in the Journal Molecular Cancer showed that THC reduced tumour growth and tumour numbers. They determined that cannabinoids inhibit cancer cell proliferation, induce cancer cell apoptosis and impair tumour angiogenesis (all good things). This study provides strong evidence for the use of cannabinoid based therapies for the management of breast cancer.

8. A study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America (PNAS) determined that cannabinoids inhibit human breast cancer cell proliferation.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/08/23/20-medical-studies-that-prove-cannabis-can-cure-cancer/

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

The link you quote has articles on Extraterrestrials and The "Illuminati" on it's home page. Free Energy too and GMO too.

I tend to look at the quality of the source before I accept it's information at face value.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[sfzombie13 307]

you may be safe in doing that, but let me ask you, did you check out the studies linked to in the article, or did you just dismiss it outright?

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

sfzombie13

you may be safe in doing that, but let me ask you, did you check out the studies linked to in the article, or did you just dismiss it outright?

I took a quick look. I don't have enough knowledge or experience in the field to know if any of the cited studies, the people that conducted them, or the journals they were published in have any validity. Anyone can conduct a study and get it published in a "peer reviewed" journal these days. You can also get a "Master's Degree" over the internet.

I don't doubt the utility and versatility of cannabis, but I tend to reject the "kept secret by corporate interests" conspiracy theories that often go along with the garbage that's on that site.

There isn't any "secret synthetic oil" formula being kept by Exxon/Mobil.
There isn't any "secret cure for cancer" (or diabetes or any other disease) being kept by the pharma industry.
There aren't any "debt relief" secrets being kept by the credit card industry.

Just people selling stuff that want you to believe it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 2,379]

>There is already a (Natural and easily self medicated) cure/medication for most
>cancers, Pfizer (and the likes) cannot make money from that so they try to
>synthesize what is thought to be the active ingredients and try to flog that off
>instead.

Why are you swallowing the claims of Big Pot without questioning them? They don't want you to be cured. Heck, they want you to stay sick so they make more money!

[normiss 619]

[PiLFy 0]

normiss

Holy Crap ?! You guys are STILL going on about this Thread?? The battle lines have been drawn. Neither side is about to change their minds. Just let it go...

[normiss 619]

[kallend 1,619]

www.cbsnews.com/news/hpv-vaccine-does-not-increase-risky-sexual-behavior-among-young-women-study/

Another anti-woman scare tactic from the religious right bites the dust.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

PiLFy

Holy Crap ?! You guys are STILL going on about this Thread?? The battle lines have been drawn. Neither side is about to change their minds. Just let it go...

kyptocoin keeps opening up exciting new fronts. Like the Germans opening a second front against the Russians, and then a third front against Afghanistan.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

kallend

www.cbsnews.com/news/hpv-vaccine-does-not-increase-risky-sexual-behavior-among-young-women-study/

Another anti-woman scare tactic from the religious right bites the dust.

If people believe that a vaccine that protects against a disease will encourage risky behavior, why do they not believe that God forgiving sins will just encourage people to be even worse sinners?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[mistercwood 287]

GeorgiaDon

***www.cbsnews.com/news/hpv-vaccine-does-not-increase-risky-sexual-behavior-among-young-women-study/

Another anti-woman scare tactic from the religious right bites the dust.

If people believe that a vaccine that protects against a disease will encourage risky behavior, why do they not believe that God forgiving sins will just encourage people to be even worse sinners?

Don



Holy crap! That's the best rebuttal I've heard yet!

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[Skyrad 0]

You're very own link shows that you are totally wrong '20 Medical Studies That Prove Cannabis Can Cure Cancer'. Clearly the medical industry as you refer to it are working on the potential for Cannabis use in treatment of cancers. However although clinical studies show that in a lab environment that compounds within cannabis can have a retardant effect and even kill cancerous cells there is a long way to go to turning this into any kind of treatment for any cancer. However the research is ongoing.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

kelpdiver

***
Holy Crap ?! You guys are STILL going on about this Thread?? The battle lines have been drawn. Neither side is about to change their minds. Just let it go...

kyptocoin keeps opening up exciting new fronts. Like the Germans opening a second front against the Russians, and then a third front against Afghanistan.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Snowwhite 0]

Why would you even ask? Polio? Gone! Smallpox? GONE! Have you ever met anyone who had suffered through these diseases? I have met people who had them 60 years ago, and STILL have serious health issues, deformities and everyday problems, because they didn't have a 5 minute vaccination option when they were children.
Have you ever been in a hospital where a couple of kids with whooping cough are? Treat yourself to that! Listen to those kids struggling for every breath.
I had friends who's mothers had rubella when they were pregnant. The friends were deaf and had holes in their hearts that had to be closed. Except of course for the 2 who died because of the holes in their heart.
Go to the CDC website and do a little research. And then, get those shots!~

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