To vaccinate or not to vaccinate?

[cryptocoin 0]

So having children soon and have had conflicting stories.

Autism figures have changed from 1 in 10000 people in 1980 to more than 1 in 50 people now days...

Vaccines are made with crude methods using animal genes such as birds eggs and monkeys kidneys and contain metals such as mercury and aluminium...

Please give your educated opinion, does anyone have experience with adverse side effects, false/poor advice from medical practitioners?

It is a tough subject, this video has me swayed against vaccinations. It seem the science behind them is seriously flawed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1m3TjokVU4

[Stumpy 256]

I have no idea if you are trolling but please get your kids vaccinated.

http://tallguywrites.livejournal.com/148012.html

If there are any risks of side effects (and that is extremely doubtful) they are much lower than the risks from the diseases themselves.

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Autism figures have changed from 1 in 10000 people in 1980 to more than 1 in 50 people now days...

My take on this is that we are actually far better at the diagnosis of Autism than we were in the 80s and a lot of people who previously wouldn't have been diagnosed, now are. Aspergers/Autism runs in a spectrum - I know a couple of kids who sit on that spectrum - one has basically now grown out of the social issues he was having and is excelling, the other is doing pretty well - previously he would just have been called "slow".

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[cryptocoin 0]

so a couple of people have voted that they would.

Is anyone willing to elaborate?

it seems to me the risks far outweigh the benefits.

[cryptocoin 0]

No, not trolling at all. Tjis is a serious debate and there are serious implicatons from both sides of the argument.

I am of coursen not going to use the arguments from those here to make my(our) decision but definitely appreciate any feedback.

I know of a couple of children that have not been vaccinated and they seem to be ill much less than their counterparts.

One parent was even told that their child was a threat to those at the school that were vaccinated? I do not see the logic in that. this seems like scare tactics. if the vaccines work than how can an un vaccinated child pose a threat to vaccinated children?

It is quite clear that some people have seriously adverse reactions to the vaccines and the medical fraternity seems to be more interested in covering that up than isolating what may be the cause of this or who is more susceptible.

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My take on this is that we are actually far better at the diagnosis of Autism than we were in the 80s and a lot of people who previously wouldn't have been diagnosed, now are. Aspergers/Autism runs in a spectrum - I know a couple of kids who sit on that spectrum - one has basically now grown out of the social issues he was having and is excelling, the other is doing pretty well - previously he would just have been called "slow".

This has been covered...

the numbers again;

in 1980 it was 1 in 10,000 people, now it is 1 in 50...

Are you saying you believe that 9950 people in 10,000 were un-diagnosed before recent technology/diagnosis was implemented.

seriously?

[RonD1120 58]

I'm not sure the SC is the place for that sort of guidance. You and your wife should discuss this issue with your family, your pastor and competent professionals. You should have some physicians in your church.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[cryptocoin 0]

Like I said, this is not how we plan on making our decisions.

We are both swayed towards not vaccinating, or at least not using the multi-vaccines such as MMR and waiting until they have developed somewhat. We still have time and I want to get as much information as I can.

The reason I post here is because of the critical posts I read here.People go out of their way to prove something wrong or right.

[PiLFy 0]

This is a toughie... Not having children, I've never had to dig into it. The last numbers I've read on Autism's incidence rate, were approximately 1/175 births. You sure of your source for 1/50?

Outbreaks of those once dreaded childhood Diseases are invariably traced back to pools of unvaccinated children. Often, the Reservoir proves to be a pocket of kids in some religious group that forbids vaccinations, or illegal aliens. Vaccines don't always confer 100% immunity. That's why unvaccinated Children put the others at risk.

Not having looked deeply into the problem, I've still read too many case studies surrounding adverse reactions to vaccinations. IMHO, there is clearly something there. The Govt. lies like a rug. I don't believe their repeated assertions about vaccine safety. Every time you're vaccinated. You're taking a chance that your body will react to it in a negative way. Here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19388722/

I work in nursing, but don't take the flu or pneumovax shots for these reasons. I've accepted vaccines for greater risks, like HAV & Shingles. Kids today are hit w/something like 175 freakin vaccines. That's insanity. I haven't read what they're all for, but seriously doubt their necessity.

I don't envy you your decision. Is Home Schooling an option? You're forced to vaccinate if your children attend public schools, correct? How about finding some obscure religion to join on the Net (seriously)?

Best of Luck in making this choice.

[cryptocoin 0]

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http://tallguywrites.livejournal.com/148012.html

Talk about biased, this 'cartoon' focuses on one guy that was likely looking to make money out of a controversy and uses his situation to make a conclusion.

there are always people trying to make a buck out of peoples misfortunes.

I am reading plently of stories of people that have experienced serious illness and death immediately after vaccination and the medical fraternity dening any such link to the vaccines but also giving no explanation to the illness or death.

It is obvious that doctors are not taught to heal naturally, they know nothing about nutrition (food not pills) and they are quick to administer drugs for every type of ailment when sleep, water or a change of diet is probably all that is needed.

there is a growing mistrust of orthodox medicine and big pharma (and its kickbacks) has a lot to do with this.

Modern science is not making us healthier, it is making big pharma richer at the expense of our health.

This is how it appears to me.

I have never had a flu shot, an I cannot remember the last day I took a day off work due to illness. On the other hand people that get the flu shot seem to be ill more often...


Why is this do you think?

[cryptocoin 0]

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This is a toughie... Not having children, I've never had to dig into it. The last numbers I've read on Autism's incidence rate, were approximately 1/175 births. You sure of your source for 1/50?

I got if from the doctors in the video in the link I posted that did the study, I also googled it and got this report;

http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2013/03/20/autism-prevalence-is-now-at-1-in-50-children/

Yes it is a tough decision.

[labrys 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhk7-5eBCrs

Owned by Remi #?

[ianmdrennan 2]

I'd suggest looking at a modified schedule. One that doesn't bombard the poor child with quite so much at one time as the regular schedule does.

Travel is another consideration too (for example we accelerated my son's vaccinations due to international travel) but my daughter was on a more relaxed schedule.

IMO people take vaccinations far too lightly, but also I believe that you cannot simply ignore their benefits and have to make informed decisions that are best for your family.

In a nutshell: I believe you need to vaccinate, but I do not believe the current US vaccination 'schedule' is appropriate and it can be stretched out quite a bit depending on lifestyle and travel choices.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[cryptocoin 0]

Quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhk7-5eBCrs

What a rubbish, unfunny and unscientific analogy.. I wonder who paid for it?

[PiLFy 0]

labrys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhk7-5eBCrs

I like Penn & Teller, but... Their demonstration only cited several of the worst offenders (i.e.: Polio) that should be vaccinated against. Last count I heard, was 175 vaccinations given to kids. That has to be 100+ separate threats. What are all those other $hot$ for? Their presentation misrepresents the danger.

Also, they infer that no Children are being vaccinated. That's very different than only your child not being so. Huge difference when it's YOUR Child...

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

If it's a result of the vaccinations, why did the autism rate not start going up when vaccinations were started?

What changed in the vaccinations between when they started in the middle of the last century and the nineties when autism rates started increasing?

And it seems like most people have forgotten how devastating these diseases were. Have you ever wondered why there are words for people who have lost parents (orphan) or spouses (widow & widower) but not for parents who have lost children? Its because until very recently (last 75-100 years) almost every parent lost at least one child to these diseases before adulthood.

Besides, I think you can make a better case for organic food causing autism than vaccinations.

http://io9.com/on-correlation-causation-and-the-real-cause-of-auti-1494972271

The correlation is much closer.

Of course, the correlation between ice cream sales and homicide is very close. So is the decline in pirates and the increase in global warming.

Defeat Global Warming! Become a Pirate!!
Shiver me timbers, matey! I'm doing my part to save the world!!!

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Southern_Man 0]

Vaccines do not cause autism. The one studied which said they did has been totally discredited. For a good counter example, do some research into Poland. In Poland the MMR vaccine was not required until the last couple of years. The rate of autism in the unvacinnated was higher than in the vaccinated population.

That is not to imply that vaccines don't carry any risk but autism is not one of them.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[cryptocoin 0]

I would like references to study from those on both sides of the fence...

saying "in poland this and that " without providing evidence is not really helpful...

I am not seeing much of anything with a quick google search...

[wmw999 2,120]

This.

Consider that part of the reason for vaccination is to develop what is called "herd immunity," where enough people are resistant to a disease for it not to get set in and/or spread in the first place.

You have to evaluate your own children specifically, and, frankly, get the important ones. See where you can split them up (that's a great idea) etc. Have a doctor that you can talk to intelligently the way that you want to -- i.e. if the doctor thinks you're an idiot, or if the doctor thinks that all vaccines are evil, then it's not a discussion.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Southern_Man 0]

cryptocoin

I would like references to study from those on both sides of the fence...

saying "in poland this and that " without providing evidence is not really helpful...

I am not seeing much of anything with a quick google search...

Here you go:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19522237

There are dozens of studies showing no relationship between vaccination and autism. There is one study showing a relationship, the Wakefield study. That one was based on fraudulent data, was withdrawn by the Lancet, and the researcher was stripped of his medical license.

Of course you have dozens or even hundreds of Youtube videos still asserting such a link, so it has that going for it.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Southern_Man

Here you go:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19522237

There are dozens of studies showing no relationship between vaccination and autism. There is one study showing a relationship, the Wakefield study. That one was based on fraudulent data, was withdrawn by the Lancet, and the researcher was stripped of his medical license.

Of course you have dozens or even hundreds of Youtube videos still asserting such a link, so it has that going for it.

And Jenny McCarthy. Don't forget Jenny McCarthy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_McCarthy

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[shropshire 0]

Wooooot let's bring back Polio

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kallend 1,623]

Go with the REAL DATA, not some charlatan's opinion.

Get them vaccinated.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[PiLFy 0]

Southern_Man

Vaccines do not cause autism. The one studied which said they did has been totally discredited. For a good counter example, do some research into Poland. In Poland the MMR vaccine was not required until the last couple of years. The rate of autism in the unvacinnated was higher than in the vaccinated population.

That is not to imply that vaccines don't carry any risk but autism is not one of them.

Got a Link? MMR are but three of 175... You're being Penn & Teller-ish. Former Eastern Bloc nations have other variables to be considered.

[Southern_Man 0]

PiLFy

***Vaccines do not cause autism. The one studied which said they did has been totally discredited. For a good counter example, do some research into Poland. In Poland the MMR vaccine was not required until the last couple of years. The rate of autism in the unvacinnated was higher than in the vaccinated population.

That is not to imply that vaccines don't carry any risk but autism is not one of them.

Got a Link? MMR are but three of 175... You're being Penn & Teller-ish. Former Eastern Bloc nations have other variables to be considered.

I've already posted a link to the study. There are dozens of others. There are literally no studies except the Wakefield one which show any link between vaccines and autism. Wakefield was a very small study (12 kids) which showed a purported link between MMR and one very specific type of Autism and its associated irritable bowel symptoms. On investigation some of the 12 children did not have autism. Others had been diagnosed or shown strong signs prior to their vaccination. It was a fraud.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[PiLFy 0]

"If it's a result of the vaccinations, why did the autism rate not start going up when vaccinations were started?

What changed in the vaccinations between when they started in the middle of the last century and the nineties when autism rates started increasing?"

IMHO, it's the deluges of assaults on children's immune systems that are to blame. I'm pushing Fifty, Joe. I only received a handful of shots, as a kid. Nowadays, Kids are being bombarded by waves of assaults on their immune systems. Last count I read, was a total of 175 vaccinations. Might be even higher, now. More than this, is a principle called Polypharmacy. In this context, it refers to the impossibility of knowing all possible adverse drug interactions between so many different vaccines. The waves of Vaccinations are bad enough. Couple them w/unknown interactions between so many different shots. When I see these factors, & combine them w/too many case studies of healthy children gone right after a wave of shots? I can only come to one conclusion.

Others here have twisted my position to mean I'm against ANY vaccination. That's absurd. Diseases like Polio, MMR, & others SHOULD be vaccinated against. Two hundred Vaccinations is another matter, entirely.

[labrys 0]

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What a rubbish, unfunny and unscientific analogy.. I wonder who paid for it?

So you already know what you intend to do. Kinda makes your post here seem extraordinarily trollish.

Go ahead and be a complete fuckwad who thinks that giving your kids a 1 in 10 chance to live is ok. It's not like we don't need organ donors.

Owned by Remi #?