Global warming traps scientists in ice

[al05r 2]

http://xkcd.com/1321/

[brenthutch 383]

billvon

>since nothing has been proven, opinion and a theory in jepardy is all we have

And, of course, the scientific tests that show CO2 concentrations rising due to our emissions, the factual records showing temperature rising, and the lab experiments that show that increasing CO2 concentrations increase retained heat.

The trouble is that we don't live in a lab. While global temperatures are skyrocketing in "the lab" and in all of the IPCC's models; in the real world they are not. Mother nature is not playing ball and that makes me sad and embarrassed for all of the warmist out there.

[billvon 2,391]

>The trouble is that we don't live in a lab. While global temperatures are skyrocketing in
>"the lab" and in all of the IPCC's models; in the real world they are not.

Actually they are. Warmest year on record was 2010. That's why the deniers are failing. Not because people argue over the details of the instrumental record, but because they see their world changing in front of them. Telling someone "it's all a liberal lie!" doesn't work when they are losing their home to the sea.

(And if you want further proof that the planet is warming? We have a cold winter and everyone is shocked. Cold winters used to be the norm.)

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>The trouble is that we don't live in a lab. While global temperatures are skyrocketing in
>"the lab" and in all of the IPCC's models; in the real world they are not.

Actually they are. Warmest year on record was 2010. That's why the deniers are failing. Not because people argue over the details of the instrumental record, but because they see their world changing in front of them. Telling someone "it's all a liberal lie!" doesn't work when they are losing their home to the sea.

(And if you want further proof that the planet is warming? We have a cold winter and everyone is shocked. Cold winters used to be the norm.)

Who is losing their home to the sea?

I look forward to the link

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,391]

>Who is losing their home to the sea?


Climate change threatens life in Shishmaref, Alaska
By John D. Sutter
December 3, 2009

Shishmaref, Alaska (CNN) -- When the arctic winds howl and angry waves pummel the shore of this Inupiat Eskimo village, Shelton and Clara Kokeok fear that their house, already at the edge of the Earth, finally may plunge into the gray sea below.

"The land is going away," said Shelton Kokeok, 65, whose home is on the tip of a bluff that's been melting in part because of climate change. "I think it's going to vanish one of these days."

Coastal erosion has been an issue for decades here, but rising global temperatures have started to thaw the permafrost that once helped anchor this village in place. Sea ice that protects Shishmaref's coast from erosion melts earlier in the spring and forms later in the fall. As a result, the increasingly mushy and exposed soil along Shishmaref's shore is falling into the water in snowmobile-sized chunks.

The crumbling land already toppled one house into the sea. Thirteen other homes -- nearly all of the Kokeoks' neighbors -- had to be moved inland. The land they stood on washed away.

. . .

They're not alone. A dozen Alaskan villages, including Shishmaref, are at some stage of moving because of climate-change-related impacts like coastal erosion and flooding.

Around the world, as many as 150 million people may become "climate refugees" because of global warming, according to an Environmental Justice Foundation report, which attributes some of the moves to rising sea levels.
===================

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>Who is losing their home to the sea?


Climate change threatens life in Shishmaref, Alaska
By John D. Sutter
December 3, 2009

Shishmaref, Alaska (CNN) -- When the arctic winds howl and angry waves pummel the shore of this Inupiat Eskimo village, Shelton and Clara Kokeok fear that their house, already at the edge of the Earth, finally may plunge into the gray sea below.

"The land is going away," said Shelton Kokeok, 65, whose home is on the tip of a bluff that's been melting in part because of climate change. "I think it's going to vanish one of these days."

Coastal erosion has been an issue for decades here, but rising global temperatures have started to thaw the permafrost that once helped anchor this village in place. Sea ice that protects Shishmaref's coast from erosion melts earlier in the spring and forms later in the fall. As a result, the increasingly mushy and exposed soil along Shishmaref's shore is falling into the water in snowmobile-sized chunks.

The crumbling land already toppled one house into the sea. Thirteen other homes -- nearly all of the Kokeoks' neighbors -- had to be moved inland. The land they stood on washed away.

. . .

They're not alone. A dozen Alaskan villages, including Shishmaref, are at some stage of moving because of climate-change-related impacts like coastal erosion and flooding.

Around the world, as many as 150 million people may become "climate refugees" because of global warming, according to an Environmental Justice Foundation report, which attributes some of the moves to rising sea levels.
===================

Nice
Man losing to nature


again

because they make a poor choice

But, and the other alarmists need to blame this on something other than nature taking her chosen course

Climate is the reason?
Sure
Man made

You got a long long way to go to link that my friend

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[brenthutch 383]

billvon

>The trouble is that we don't live in a lab. While global temperatures are skyrocketing in
>"the lab" and in all of the IPCC's models; in the real world they are not.

Actually they are. Warmest year on record was 2010.

The IPCC models predicted that 2013 would be warmer than 2010, and it was not. Soooo......

[billvon 2,391]

>The IPCC models predicted that 2013 would be warmer than 2010

No, they didn't. Sooo . . . .

[brenthutch 383]

Source?

[kallend 1,622]

brenthutch

Source?

Indeed, you SHOULD provide a source for your claim about the IPCC prediction.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

Bill, here is why you will have trouble convincing anyone who pays attention
why can't the data speak for itself?
Why does it have to be "manipulated" if you will?

Quote

An independent data analyst whose work has been published by Principia Scientific, where scientists deliberate and debate, throwing out predetermined political results in favor of the truth in the data, says the global warming activists are at it again.

They’re manipulating the data.

In this case, lowering the historical temperatures for years prior to 2000. Which makes the temperatures after that look like they’ve risen. Which makes it look like global warming.

“A newly uncovered and monumental calculating error in official U.S. government climate data shows beyond doubt that climate scientists unjustifiably added a whopping one degree of phantom warming to the official ‘raw’ temperature record,” the report says.

It comes from the discovery by independent data analyst Steven Goddard, who did a study of the official U.S. temperature records used by NASA, the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration and others.

He found that for the records, when global temperatures plummeted in 1999, on the official U.S. chart, they didn’t.

Essentially, he said, the charge was revised downward by one degree for readings before 2000. But they “left post-2000 temperatures more or less intact.”

and there are more links in the story

http://www.wnd.com/2014/01/again-massive-fudging-on-global-warming-temps/

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

As a follow up

http://www.principia-scientific.org/breaking-new-climate-data-rigging-scandal-rocks-us-government.html

Quote

A newly-uncovered and monumental calculating error in official US government climate data shows beyond doubt that climate scientists unjustifiably added on a whopping one degree of phantom warming to the official "raw" temperature record. Skeptics believe the discovery may trigger the biggest of all “climate con” scandals in Congress and sound the death knell on American climate policy.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Wow
From the link in the post preious to this one

Quote

Goddard reports, “I spent the evening comparing graphs…and hit the NOAA motherlode.” His diligent research exposed the real reason why there is a startling disparity between the “raw” thermometer readings, as reported by measuring stations, and the “adjusted” temperatures, those that appear in official charts and government reports. In effect, the adjustments to the “raw” thermometer measurements made by the climate scientists “turns a 90 year cooling trend into a warming trend,” says the astonished Goddard.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

these sources are fun

http://www.cato.org/blog/closing-books-2013-another-year-another-nail-coffin-disastrous-global-warming

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,622]

rushmc

these sources are fun

http://www.cato.org/blog/closing-books-2013-another-year-another-nail-coffin-disastrous-global-warming

A nice apolitical organization, NOT.

The article demonstrates a toddler level understanding of time and space. Rather like you and Brenthutch do.

Meanwhile a lot of commercial interests are positioning themselves to take advantage of a warmer climate. Are you aware that shipping through the northeast passage north of Russia has increased by a factor of 30 as it has become increasingly free of ice? Thought not.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

kallend

***these sources are fun

http://www.cato.org/blog/closing-books-2013-another-year-another-nail-coffin-disastrous-global-warming

A nice apolitical organization, NOT.

The article demonstrates a toddler level understanding of time and space. Rather like you and Brenthutch do.

Meanwhile a lot of commercial interests are positioning themselves to take advantage of a warmer climate. Are you aware that shipping through the northeast passage north of Russia has increased by a factor of 30 as it has become increasingly free of ice? Thought not.

Ignore one link and not the other??
And then go after the source and not the info?

Anyway
You are constantly proving your caring about lying is politically selective
To us and yourself

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,391]

>Bill, here is why you will have trouble convincing anyone who pays attention
>why can't the data speak for itself?

It does when you listen to it.

Here's some data, showing the horrible freeze that disproved the warming trend in December of 2013:

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/tmp/gistemp/NMAPS/tmp_GHCN_GISS_ERSST_1200km_Anom12_2013_2013_1951_1980/nmaps.gif

(Looking forward to your denial/"deskewing" of this data)

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>Bill, here is why you will have trouble convincing anyone who pays attention
>why can't the data speak for itself?

It does when you listen to it.

Here's some data, showing the horrible freeze that disproved the warming trend in December of 2013:

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/tmp/gistemp/NMAPS/tmp_GHCN_GISS_ERSST_1200km_Anom12_2013_2013_1951_1980/nmaps.gif

(Looking forward to your denial/"deskewing" of this data)

I dont know if anyone skewed anything related to your post but, odds are they have

We should ask these people

http://www.principia-scientific.org/breaking-new-climate-data-rigging-scandal-rocks-us-government.html

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,391]

>I dont know if anyone skewed anything related to your post but, odds are they have

Best ignore it, then.

So to answer your question from before:
"why can't the data speak for itself?"
Because you ignore it.

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>I dont know if anyone skewed anything related to your post but, odds are they have

Best ignore it, then.

So to answer your question from before:
"why can't the data speak for itself?"
Because you ignore it.

I am
at least what the alarmists present
Seeing that the raw data seems not support their cause

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,391]

>Seeing that the raw data seems not support their cause

So why did you ignore the raw data I just posted?

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>Seeing that the raw data seems not support their cause

So why did you ignore the raw data I just posted?

How do I know it is raw?
From NOAA?
Because you posted it?

Really?

But I guess one is not to question anything anymore huh'

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

From the link you and kallend have so far ignored

Quote

. Goddard reports, “I spent the evening comparing graphs…and hit the NOAA motherlode.” His diligent research exposed the real reason why there is a startling disparity between the “raw” thermometer readings, as reported by measuring stations, and the “adjusted” temperatures, those that appear in official charts and government reports. In effect, the adjustments to the “raw” thermometer measurements made by the climate scientists “turns a 90 year cooling trend into a warming trend,” says the astonished Goddard..

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,391]

>How do I know it is raw?

You can verify it if you like.

Or you can ignore the raw data and instead believe an opinion piece by a denier whose scientific credentials - are about the same as mine.

I guess for a denier the choice is clear.

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>How do I know it is raw?

You can verify it if you like.

Or you can ignore the raw data and instead believe an opinion piece by a denier whose scientific credentials - are about the same as mine.

I guess for a denier the choice is clear.

trust but verify

I guess I do not accept your data at face value anymore. Not even you can say that data is unaltered anymore

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln