Andy9o8 0 #1 December 4, 2013 http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/02/21660362-karzai-security-pact-gambit-aimed-at-keeping-us-money-filling-his-pockets 12 years and counting, and trillions of dollars (not to mention thousands of lives) later, I hope we all think it's been worth it. Look at us: liberals, moderates and conservatives, snarling at each other over the remnants of the rest of the left-over pie, like feral dogs fighting over the scraps left over when the bloated lion has finished feeding. And this is why. We're the fools. All of us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #2 December 4, 2013 What does the US get in return for this money? Or is the contention that the US is so stupid it gives away billions without getting anything in return? (not something I would easily agree with) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #3 December 5, 2013 Andy9o8http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/02/21660362-karzai-security-pact-gambit-aimed-at-keeping-us-money-filling-his-pockets 12 years and counting, and trillions of dollars (not to mention thousands of lives) later, I hope we all think it's been worth it. Look at us: liberals, moderates and conservatives, snarling at each other over the remnants of the rest of the left-over pie, like feral dogs fighting over the scraps left over when the bloated lion has finished feeding. And this is why. We're the fools. All of us. True that. However, I have some close friends making some hard but well earned tax free big bucks over there. So there is a silver lining, of sorts.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #4 December 5, 2013 SkyDekkerWhat does the US get in return for this money? Or is the contention that the US is so stupid it gives away billions without getting anything in return? (not something I would easily agree with) Sounds like a reasonable summary of the US' relationship with Israel.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #5 December 5, 2013 Andy9o8http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/02/21660362-karzai-security-pact-gambit-aimed-at-keeping-us-money-filling-his-pockets 12 years and counting, and trillions of dollars (not to mention thousands of lives) later, I hope we all think it's been worth it. Look at us: liberals, moderates and conservatives, snarling at each other over the remnants of the rest of the left-over pie, like feral dogs fighting over the scraps left over when the bloated lion has finished feeding. And this is why. We're the fools. All of us. I'm surprised you are surprised by this. It's always been about the money for Karzai.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #6 December 5, 2013 Andy9o8http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/02/21660362-karzai-security-pact-gambit-aimed-at-keeping-us-money-filling-his-pockets 12 years and counting, and trillions of dollars (not to mention thousands of lives) later, I hope we all think it's been worth it. Look at us: liberals, moderates and conservatives, snarling at each other over the remnants of the rest of the left-over pie, like feral dogs fighting over the scraps left over when the bloated lion has finished feeding. And this is why. We're the fools. All of us. Many people were pissed and afraid. We lashed out at two countries that were on our shit list. Like most Americans, I was ok with that. It was the hanging around afterwards where we really messed up.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #7 December 5, 2013 airdvr***http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/02/21660362-karzai-security-pact-gambit-aimed-at-keeping-us-money-filling-his-pockets 12 years and counting, and trillions of dollars (not to mention thousands of lives) later, I hope we all think it's been worth it. Look at us: liberals, moderates and conservatives, snarling at each other over the remnants of the rest of the left-over pie, like feral dogs fighting over the scraps left over when the bloated lion has finished feeding. And this is why. We're the fools. All of us. I'm surprised you are surprised by this. It's always been about the money for Karzai. You and I are about the same age; both of us heard, remember, the lies of Vietnam. Remember Thieu and Ky, and before them, Diem? Sure you do. I'm not remotely surprised by it. But I am disgusted by it; it keeps repeating over and over again, and I want to burn this lesson into the minds of today's twenty- and thirty-somethings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #8 December 5, 2013 QuoteSounds like a reasonable summary of the US' relationship with Israel. No it isn't. Israel provides a strong and stable nuclear foothold in a very contentious and volatile area. There is significant return on the money spent. What is it in Afghanistan? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #9 December 5, 2013 SkyDekkerQuoteSounds like a reasonable summary of the US' relationship with Israel. No it isn't. Israel provides a strong and stable nuclear foothold in a very contentious and volatile area. There is significant return on the money spent. What is it in Afghanistan? A share of the poppy profits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #10 December 5, 2013 QuoteIsrael provides a strong and stable nuclear foothold in a very contentious and volatile area. This was the hope in Afghanistan (minus the nuclear part). It's not working out as well as possible, in part due to Karzai and his lovely family. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #11 December 5, 2013 grue***What does the US get in return for this money? Or is the contention that the US is so stupid it gives away billions without getting anything in return? (not something I would easily agree with) Sounds like a reasonable summary of the US' relationship with Israel.Here's the alternative to Israel.http://news.yahoo.com/insight-beheadings-spies-help-al-qaeda-gain-ground-151759878.html "Insight: Beheadings and spies help al Qaeda gain ground in Syria" of course this part of Syria isn't that close to Israel.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #12 December 6, 2013 grue***What does the US get in return for this money? Or is the contention that the US is so stupid it gives away billions without getting anything in return? (not something I would easily agree with) Sounds like a reasonable summary of the US' relationship with Israel. Yes...and then, a resounding no. Western actions in the Middle East follow different (often conflicting) theories and philosophies. Kind of like large scale economics, I am dubious that any of them will produce the predicted results. I studied them a long time. I lived with them for a short year. I still study them. My conclusion is that the western mind will never understand the ME mind and should not try. My philosophy is minimalist attempt to control. Find an amenable ME plan and lend some support. Israel provides a tool for some of the different philosophies regarding manipulation of the ME. Like Iraq once did, it keeps things off balance. Now, Syria is contributing to a lack of balance. Egypt has kicked in. Etc. When there is a lack of unity, there is an opportunity to manipulate. The British used this for centuries. Nobody has ever mastered it. My opinion is that Wester powers are ill equipped to play the game in the ME. But I'm just an analyst. What do I know? To your point: there is value in supporting Israel. We just have not had a workable theory and a talented enough administration to use the tool effectively.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoeless_wonder 0 #13 December 6, 2013 Politics aside, I have no problem with going to Afghanistan (Im currently serving in the Army, and I have been to Afghanistan). Before you get your panties all bunched up over that, let me explain why I have no problem with it: I have seen first hand some of the horrible things that goes on in that country. What they do to woman and children is atrocious. If me going over there and f-ing up bad guys, lets a little boy go another week without being raped, than it is all worth it. There are a lot of bad people over there. But there are good people too, and seeing the smile on their faces when we kick the taliban out of their village, and we built a school house, and medical center; when they could finally fly kites, and play soccer (those are outlawed by taliban), it was worth every second. So yeah, coming from a soldier, I would go over again. I would do it all again, just to see those kids happy and safe. THAT, is why I fight. And I would be happy to go to ANY country, and do the same. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke (see attached) What is the point of life, if you don't live it? To escape fear, you have to go through it, not around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #14 December 6, 2013 You will get no argument from me on that point. I think my time in Iraq was well spent. However, from an international diplomacy perspective, the amount invested vs the return on investment is hard to justify. Perhaps the media needs to report more from the perspective you give. Perhaps the big picture is not what justifies the cost. Maybe its all those little pictures. Thanks for the viewpoint.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #15 December 6, 2013 Andy9o8 http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/02/21660362-karzai-security-pact-gambit-aimed-at-keeping-us-money-filling-his-pockets 12 years and counting, and trillions of dollars (not to mention thousands of lives) later, I hope we all think it's been worth it. Look at us: liberals, moderates and conservatives, snarling at each other over the remnants of the rest of the left-over pie, like feral dogs fighting over the scraps left over when the bloated lion has finished feeding. And this is why. We're the fools. All of us. Well at least Kerry recognized that and fought against it!Right?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #16 December 6, 2013 The CIA should be disbanded. How many terrorists have they directly or indirectly funded/trained? Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoeless_wonder 0 #17 December 6, 2013 Bolas The CIA should be disbanded. How many terrorists have they directly or indirectly funded/trained? Probably all.. And than some we DONT know about.. What is the point of life, if you don't live it? To escape fear, you have to go through it, not around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
