Republican alternatives to the ACA aka Obamacare

[funjumper101 15]

regulator

Explain how a government forcing the youth of america to foot the bill for those with pre existing conditions is a workable solution. Explain to me why a healthy 23 year old would want to take away part of their possibly meager income for something they probably wont need. Obamacare is a joke in itself.

Explain how a government forcing drivers with a perfect driving record to foot the bill for those that aren't is a workable solution. That is how auto insurance works. That is how the FUBAR system of medical insurance we have works.

Perhaps you could do some research on what insurance is, and how it works.

Conflating auto insurance with medical insurance is definitely not quite appropriate.
No one HAS to drive to live a long and healthy life.
Everyone HAS to have medical care of some sort, throughout their entire life.

[RonD1120 58]

funjumper101

...live a long and healthy life.

You are allotted "three score and ten" years. That is not that long. Healthy is largely a matter of personal responsibility.

I'm on borrowed time now and most of my life I did not have any health insurance. As Al Stephens used to say, "Ya pays your money and ya takes your chances."

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]Not needed? Really? Could you please elaborate on this line of reasoning?

[funjumper101 15]

lawrocket

[Reply]Not needed? Really? Could you please elaborate on this line of reasoning?

Needs and wants are different things. People need food, shelter, clean water, etc. The country survived for 230 years under the Constitution without it. Now it's a "need" - one that still hasn't been completed.

[Reply]I would be very interested to hear an explanation of how denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions is of benefit to any citizen of the USA.

[RonD1120 58]

funjumper101

No, I just don't get the mindset that everything is is all about ME. Me, I am paramount. I am an island of awesomeness that has no connection or responsibility to the rest of the society I live in. I live my life with no care and consideration to others in society. Their failings all the fault of their own choices.

Funny thing about this line of thinking. It is 100% dead nuts against the concept that is "I am my brother's keeper". Dead nuts against the concepts like "Feed the poor. take care of the elderly, and be good to one another".

It is all about personal greed and selfishness. No compassion or empathy. Pretty much the defining characteristics of the Right Wing Conservative mindset. It is especially nauseating at this time of year.

It sure comes across as though RWCs root for Scrooge, not Tiny Tim, when they watch A Christmas Carol.

Merry Christmas!

I think you missed the point of my post #21.

Today my church will serve a holiday dinner to 128 registered guests. Last week we provided food for 250 families. That food is purchased from funds donated by our RWC congregation.

Notice the difference between donation and taxation.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rushmc 18]

Hmmm
Now you try and re-write the constitution

Talk about lawless

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

Two things:
(1) You asked how any American would not benefit. I said I won't. Proved your assertion wrong
(2) "Funny thing about this line of thinking. It is 100% dead nuts against the concept that is "I am my brother's keeper". Dead nuts against the concepts like "Feed the poor. take care of the elderly, and be good to one another" - if you weren't so selfish you wouldn't have a problem with this. And "be good to one another" does not, to me, mean, "take this person's stuff."

But you are what you claim to despise. You made my point - you don't give a shit! You are not your brother's keeper. You are your brother's robber. It is, to you, selfish for a person to NOT want to have their stuff taken away. But yet, it is selfless for the person to do the taking.

Seriously. Why is the taker unselfish? Why? Why the fuck are you - the greedy person who thinks of nothing more than how you can take money from those you feel are undeserving - selfless?

Why is taking people's stuff selfless? It's just one of many questions you've never answered.

I am NOT my brother's keeper. Those who believe in "my brother's keeper" bullshit tend to support the NSA. They don't tend to mind their own business. They tend to use it as an excuse for incarcerating those who use drugs - "I am my brother's keeper. He doesn't know what's good for him. I do. And it's prison." They tend to use "my brother's keeper" as an excuse to ban abortion because they know what's best. "My brother's keeper."

At best, "my brother's keeper" is an enabler. At worst, "my brother's keeper" is the excuse for tyranny. "My brother's keeper" means just that - keeping.

I have a problem with that. Apply the whole "me me" stuff to yourself. And to everybody.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

[Quote]Today my church will serve a holiday dinner to 128 registered guests. Last week we provided food for 250 families. That food is purchased from funds donated by our RWC congregation.


NO NO NO!!!! That's not the way it's supposed to be done. Funjumper doesn't want greedy people like your RWC congregation decided to help people. You must be FORCED to help in the way funjumper wants you to.

You're being your brother's helper. That's not nearly the same as "brother's keeper."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rehmwa 2]

lawrocket

[Quote]Today my church will serve a holiday dinner to 128 registered guests. Last week we provided food for 250 families. That food is purchased from funds donated by our RWC congregation.

NO NO NO!!!! That's not the way it's supposed to be done. Funjumper doesn't want greedy people like your RWC congregation decided to help people. You must be FORCED to help in the way funjumper wants you to.

You're being your brother's helper. That's not nearly the same as "brother's keeper."

It's incredibly selfish - the government should decide where that food should have been given. Not the people themselves. They must hate children and puppies. Those 250 families should get in line with all the other starving families and not be given favored status by a church just because they look like the church members. Clearly that church must only serve white meat and white milk - if you know what I mean.

Private charity is selfish - those donations should go straight to the US Treasury for 'perfect' disbursement.

for the children

(I'm practicing the 'talk', how'd I do?)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,119]

rehmwa

***[Quote]Today my church will serve a holiday dinner to 128 registered guests. Last week we provided food for 250 families. That food is purchased from funds donated by our RWC congregation.

NO NO NO!!!! That's not the way it's supposed to be done. Funjumper doesn't want greedy people like your RWC congregation decided to help people. You must be FORCED to help in the way funjumper wants you to.

You're being your brother's helper. That's not nearly the same as "brother's keeper."

It's incredibly selfish - the government should decide where that food should have been given. Not the people themselves. They must hate children and puppies. Those 250 families should get in line with all the other starving families and not be given favored status by a church just because they look like the church members. Clearly that church must only serve white meat and white milk - if you know what I mean.

Private charity is selfish - those donations should go straight to the US Treasury for 'perfect' disbursement.

for the children

(I'm practicing the 'talk', how'd I do?)

There is a difference between charities helping those that fall through the cracks and; a system that relies on charities.

[Channman 2]

lawrocket

Two things:
(1) You asked how any American would not benefit. I said I won't. Proved your assertion wrong
(2) "Funny thing about this line of thinking. It is 100% dead nuts against the concept that is "I am my brother's keeper". Dead nuts against the concepts like "Feed the poor. take care of the elderly, and be good to one another" - if you weren't so selfish you wouldn't have a problem with this. And "be good to one another" does not, to me, mean, "take this person's stuff."

But you are what you claim to despise. You made my point - you don't give a shit! You are not your brother's keeper. You are your brother's robber. It is, to you, selfish for a person to NOT want to have their stuff taken away. But yet, it is selfless for the person to do the taking.

Seriously. Why is the taker unselfish? Why? Why the fuck are you - the greedy person who thinks of nothing more than how you can take money from those you feel are undeserving - selfless?

Why is taking people's stuff selfless? It's just one of many questions you've never answered.

I am NOT my brother's keeper. Those who believe in "my brother's keeper" bullshit tend to support the NSA. They don't tend to mind their own business. They tend to use it as an excuse for incarcerating those who use drugs - "I am my brother's keeper. He doesn't know what's good for him. I do. And it's prison." They tend to use "my brother's keeper" as an excuse to ban abortion because they know what's best. "My brother's keeper."

At best, "my brother's keeper" is an enabler. At worst, "my brother's keeper" is the excuse for tyranny. "My brother's keeper" means just that - keeping.

I have a problem with that. Apply the whole "me me" stuff to yourself. And to everybody.

Your good, VERY GOOD...if I every need someone to represent me, I hope you would take my call.

Cheers.

[Channman 2]

Awesome dude, that is the way it should be done. What's mine is yours and I'll share it Vs. What's yours is MINE and I'll TAKE IT.

Merry Christmas Brother...stay safe and keep up the good work.

[beowulf 1]

http://www.policymic.com/open-mic/healthcare/67/they-want-you-to-think-this-is-complicated-it-s-really-not-let-competition-work

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

There is a difference between charities helping those that fall through the cracks and; a system that relies on charities.

Interesting - though the big argument in favor of a law enforced 'system' that is completely friendly to abuse and overspending uses the argument that if they weren't so far biased, people would 'fall through the cracks'. You see that argument here. Frankly, it's pretty much the only argument here - "what about this scenario", "I know a guy that", "once I was in a situation". That's exactly what these anecdotal type examples are that pols rely on also - 99.9999% of the time. So this particular system is design to eliminate voluntary charity and take it all on itself - rather than working with it and allowing it to take a major role in social consciousness.

therefore my cynicism stands - the final and truly fundamental argument remains that private charity is clearly a very selfish and biased act. And even an act of defiance.

for the children


the only way for charity to be temporary (i.e., the taker recovers and resumes self reliance) is for it to be personal and direct - with the giver and the taker to be face to face and it's done out of goodness and caring, and respect and appreciation. If it's anonymous, resentment will certainly develop in both. And it'll also become permanent for the taker. That hurts both parties as well.

Anonymity sucks pretty much in everything because of how people are wired. It destroys mutual respect. if it's so bad that we have threads like a typical speaker's corner thread, imagine how bad it becomes when money is involved.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jclalor 12]

Quote

Right wing conservatives, in general, believe folks should be responsible for themselves and provide accordingly. In my RWC community those having difficulty receive assistance from the community and local churches. We have several doctors and medical professionals providing "free clinic" service. That is, no insurance acceptable, cash or trade only.

Outside of suturing up a finger, how does your clinic handle labs, imaging, chemo and all those little things that keep so many of us alive. What about trauma? Do you all kick in for a compatriot who has had an MI for a full work up at the local trauma center ? Or are you guys more like the "let em die" type ?

[rehmwa 2]

jclalor

Do you all kick in for a compatriot who has had an MI for a full work up at the local trauma center ? Or are you guys more like the "let em die" type ?

Homer: Marge, please, old people don't need companionship. They need to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use.

Marge: Homer, would you please stop reading that Ross Perot pamphlet?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jclalor 12]

Homer was an Al Haig guy, he was even wearing his "Haig in 88" shirt during his booking photos.

[rehmwa 2]

jclalor

Homer was an Al Haig guy, he was even wearing his "Haig in 88" shirt during his booking photos.

he also voted for Kodos

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[RonD1120 58]

rehmwa

***[Quote]Today my church will serve a holiday dinner to 128 registered guests. Last week we provided food for 250 families. That food is purchased from funds donated by our RWC congregation.

NO NO NO!!!! That's not the way it's supposed to be done. Funjumper doesn't want greedy people like your RWC congregation decided to help people. You must be FORCED to help in the way funjumper wants you to.

You're being your brother's helper. That's not nearly the same as "brother's keeper."

It's incredibly selfish - the government should decide where that food should have been given. Not the people themselves. They must hate children and puppies. Those 250 families should get in line with all the other starving families and not be given favored status by a church just because they look like the church members. Clearly that church must only serve white meat and white milk - if you know what I mean.

Private charity is selfish - those donations should go straight to the US Treasury for 'perfect' disbursement.

for the children

(I'm practicing the 'talk', how'd I do?)

That's good, except our clientele are mostly from the the surrounding county not the church.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

jclalor

Quote

Right wing conservatives, in general, believe folks should be responsible for themselves and provide accordingly. In my RWC community those having difficulty receive assistance from the community and local churches. We have several doctors and medical professionals providing "free clinic" service. That is, no insurance acceptable, cash or trade only.

Outside of suturing up a finger, how does your clinic handle labs, imaging, chemo and all those little things that keep so many of us alive. What about trauma? Do you all kick in for a compatriot who has had an MI for a full work up at the local trauma center ? Or are you guys more like the "let em die" type ?

I'm new here. So far I've seen the local ER stabilize a severe diabetic and X-port the PT to the closest MedSurg Hospital for IC TX. They have Medicaid like everywhere else. Like I said above, they must being doing pretty good with a median age of 51 and an obesity rate of 25%.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[funjumper101 15]

lawrocket

Two things:
(1) You asked how any American would not benefit. I said I won't. Proved your assertion wrong
(2) "Funny thing about this line of thinking. It is 100% dead nuts against the concept that is "I am my brother's keeper". Dead nuts against the concepts like "Feed the poor. take care of the elderly, and be good to one another" - if you weren't so selfish you wouldn't have a problem with this. And "be good to one another" does not, to me, mean, "take this person's stuff."

But you are what you claim to despise. You made my point - you don't give a shit! You are not your brother's keeper. You are your brother's robber. It is, to you, selfish for a person to NOT want to have their stuff taken away. But yet, it is selfless for the person to do the taking.

Seriously. Why is the taker unselfish? Why? Why the fuck are you - the greedy person who thinks of nothing more than how you can take money from those you feel are undeserving - selfless?

Why is taking people's stuff selfless? It's just one of many questions you've never answered.

I am NOT my brother's keeper. Those who believe in "my brother's keeper" bullshit tend to support the NSA. They don't tend to mind their own business. They tend to use it as an excuse for incarcerating those who use drugs - "I am my brother's keeper. He doesn't know what's good for him. I do. And it's prison." They tend to use "my brother's keeper" as an excuse to ban abortion because they know what's best. "My brother's keeper."

At best, "my brother's keeper" is an enabler. At worst, "my brother's keeper" is the excuse for tyranny. "My brother's keeper" means just that - keeping.

I have a problem with that. Apply the whole "me me" stuff to yourself. And to everybody.

Your writing totally proves my point about the extreme selfishness and lack of empathy and concern that RWCs have for those less fortunate. You did not disprove anything.

Why should skydiving related injuries be covered by any group medical insurance policy? Motorcycle crash injuries? Skiing/snowboarding injuries? To extend your line of "reasoning", all medical expenses for injuries due to participation in risky activities should be the sole responsibility of the participant. No one else should have to pay for this medical care via higher medical insurance premiums. That is the logical extension of the "reasoning" manifested by you and the other RWCs in this thread.

I do give a shit about those less fortunate than I. I volunteer at a local food bank distribution point every other weekend. I help rebuild old PCs for a program that donates them to poor families with school age children. I pass along PCs retired by clients to the PC rebuild program. I actually do productive things to help those less fortunate, using the skills I have. What do you do to help them out?
I would bet that the RWCs would want the PC donation program to verify the immigration status of the recipients.

Taking people's stuff? WTF is that all about? What a load of bullshit. Taxes and insurance premiums are not "taking people's stuff". Right at the moment, I can't think of a better example of venality of RWC thought process.

Taxes are the cost for living in a civilized society.

Can you explain why the USA is alone in the First World in allowing for profit medical insurance companies to operate as the primary deciders of who gets what kind of medical treatment? Can you explain the high level of health care and societal satisfaction in the "social democratic" countries like Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and the Netherlands?

Canada's system works very well for the great majority of the citizens.

The USA would experience an economic boom if those that wanted to start a business did not have to worry about medical insurance for themselves and their loved ones, due to the existence of a healthy single payer system. Losing 1/3 or more of the revenue to profit and overhead is not sustainable.

A US Rep has to raise 25,000 PER DAY for their re-election campaign. A US Senator is at about a 35,000 PER DAY for their re-election campaign. We aren't the country we pretend to be. Not even close, anymore.

[regulator 0]

jclalor

Quote

Right wing conservatives, in general, believe folks should be responsible for themselves and provide accordingly. In my RWC community those having difficulty receive assistance from the community and local churches. We have several doctors and medical professionals providing "free clinic" service. That is, no insurance acceptable, cash or trade only.

Outside of suturing up a finger, how does your clinic handle labs, imaging, chemo and all those little things that keep so many of us alive. What about trauma? Do you all kick in for a compatriot who has had an MI for a full work up at the local trauma center ? Or are you guys more like the "let em die" type ?

-----------------------------------------------
Seems to be the MO for libs on this site. If one man speaks of his community service you find every way to knock him down a peg so he can be on your level. Way to stay classy.

[wmw999 2,114]

Interesting how some of the conservatives generalize the most negative possible interpretation to all liberals, and how some of the liberals generalize the most negative possible interpretation to all conservatives.

Ya know, it's likely that conservatives and liberals, just like Muslims, Jews, and Christians, as well as whites, blacks, and asians, really just want to be able to find a way to figure out how to be happy, and how to have their families be happy.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[regulator 0]

my bad. I'd rather be knocked down a few pegs by wendy than some others. At least I usually learn a thing or two from her.

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]Outside of suturing up a finger, how does your clinic handle labs, imaging, chemo and all those little things that keep so many of us alive. What about trauma? Do you all kick in for a compatriot who has had an MI for a full work up at the local trauma center ?