Then and Now . . . Hypocrisy of the Left

[turtlespeed 212]

Then. 2005

Then 2008

And then there is today . . .

Seriously . . . W T F does Obama think he knows about what the founding fathers wanted.

And then there is Miss Dis-Ingenuousness, Michelle Obama . . . “We don’t believe in handouts. We don’t think anyone should get a free ride,” Obama said during a fundraising speech for Senate Democrats in New York Monday, according to the Washington Examiner.


BWAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

If you like your Constitution, you can keep your Constitution, Period!

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,116]

It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[turtlespeed 212]

wmw999

It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

Who needs checks and balances now anyway? Right?

It is a ploy to be able to stack the appeals courts in DC to keep Obamacare from being done away with. It has a side benefit of being Information of mass distraction.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

Also, I will find it SOFA KING funny - when the left starts whining and throwing a temper tantrum when they discover they regret their move today.

It's going to be hilarious.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[beowulf 1]

wmw999

It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

Fillibuster has been around a long time. It's nothing new.

[rushmc 18]

wmw999

It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

I can remember the republicans (including talkers like Limbaugh) complaining that all they wanted was an up or down vote. Now they are pissed off

I dont feel too sorry for them
This rule change will work both ways now. As some point in the future the dems will be crying that the majority needs to be respected (as they said before when they lost power)

Is what it is I guess
Elections have consequenses

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

beowulf

***It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

Fillibuster has been around a long time. It's nothing new.

Over 200 years worth in one fashion or another

And it has been used and abused by both sides for just as long

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,620]

beowulf

***It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

Fillibuster has been around a long time. It's nothing new.

A real filibuster has been around long time.

These blocking, obstructionist procedural moves are not filibusters and are fairly recent phenomena.

They should be done away with, regardless of which party is in control.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

turtlespeed

Also, I will find it SOFA KING funny - when the left starts whining and throwing a temper tantrum when they discover they regret their move today.

It's going to be hilarious.

What you said

I think Reid and will change it back if they lose the Senate
And then cry when the republicans change it back

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

turtlespeed

Who needs checks and balances now anyway? Right?

but the fillibuster is not one of the checks and balances in the Constitution. It is merely an element of parliamentary procedure adopted (and frequently modified) by the Senate.

I'm ok with the classic form where someone takes the floor and refuses to yield it (or only to a fellow fillibuster). But the modern form where you only have to threaten to do it means that the Senate is no longer a majority rule body, but one that requires 60% to pass anything.

I find it particularly problematic when abused with regards to approvals of nominees, especially for cabinet members. Congress is supposed to have a check on judicial nominees, but the White House should be able to appoint its own people. If Congress objects, they can vote no. But not voting for YEARS is not acceptable. No more than pocket vetos or appointments by the President should be.

and yes, the Democrats might regret this later....though recent history is likely to show that the use of it is much greater by the other guys.

[beowulf 1]

kallend

******It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

Fillibuster has been around a long time. It's nothing new.

A real filibuster has been around long time.

These blocking, obstructionist procedural moves are not filibusters and are fairly recent phenomena.

They should be done away with, regardless of which party is in control.


This is just a simple power grab for the Democrats. They don't like the rules so they change them when it suits them. When the shoe was on the other foot they objected.

[funjumper101 15]

beowulf

***It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

Fillibuster has been around a long time. It's nothing new.

If you knew of the history and application of the filibuster, you would know that the gross abuse of the filibuster by the Republicans since 2009 is new. Very new. It has been a gross abuse of the Senate rules.

The depth and breadth of RWC ignorance never fails.

[beowulf 1]

funjumper101

******It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

Fillibuster has been around a long time. It's nothing new.

If you knew of the history and application of the filibuster, you would know that the gross abuse of the filibuster by the Republicans since 2009 is new. Very new. It has been a gross abuse of the Senate rules.

The depth and breadth of RWC ignorance never fails.

I am not a Republican.

Are you really saying that the Democrat's never took advantage of these rules?

[rushmc 18]

funjumper101

******It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

Fillibuster has been around a long time. It's nothing new.

If you knew of the history and application of the filibuster, you would know that the gross abuse of the filibuster by the Republicans since 2009 is new. Very new. It has been a gross abuse of the Senate rules.





I love it when you post
It is always a teachable event

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[turtlespeed 212]

funjumper101

******It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

Fillibuster has been around a long time. It's nothing new.

If you knew of the history and application of the filibuster, you would know that the gross abuse of the filibuster by the Republicans since 2009 is new. Very new. It has been a gross abuse of the Senate rules.

The depth and breadth of RWC ignorance never fails.

Emphasis Mine . . .

Quote

GOP May Target Use of Filibuster
Senate Democrats Want To Retain the Right to Block Judicial Nominees

By Helen Dewar and Mike Allen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Monday, December 13, 2004; Page A01
As speculation mounts that Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist will step down from the Supreme Court soon because of thyroid cancer, Senate Republican leaders are preparing for a showdown to keep Democrats from blocking President Bush's judicial nominations, including a replacement for Rehnquist.

Republicans say that Democrats have abused the filibuster by blocking 10 of the president's 229 judicial nominees in his first term -- although confirmation of Bush nominees exceeds in most cases the first-term experience of presidents dating to Ronald Reagan. Describing the filibusters as intolerable, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) has hinted he may resort to an unusual parliamentary maneuver, dubbed the "nuclear option," to thwart such filibusters.



White House counsel Alberto R. Gonzales was in line for a Supreme Court appointment before President Bush nominated him to be attorney general. He is likely to be considered in the future, but the first choice will be someone whom conservatives will embrace, administration officials said. (Jason Reed -- Reuters)

New? Maybe BY the REPUBLICANS, but right on par for the democrats when they get their panties in a twist.

Go back and read some history, it will make your posts much more intelligible.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rushmc 18]

Another manufactured issue by the Dems

Riddle me this
Out of 258 sent by Obama to the Senate for some kind of confirmation this year, how many have been rejected?

funjumper?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[beowulf 1]

Quote

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV): "As majority leader, I intend to run the Senate with respect for the rules and for the minority rights the rules protect. The Senate was not established to be efficient. Sometimes the rules get in the way of efficiency. The Senate was established to make sure that minorities are protected. Majorities can always protect themselves, but minorities cannot. That is what the Senate is all about. For more than 200 years, the rules of the Senate have protected the American people, and rightfully so. The need to muster 60 votes in order to terminate Senate debate naturally frustrates the majority and oftentimes the minority. I am sure it will frustrate me when I assume the office of majority leader in a few weeks. But I recognize this requirement is a tool that serves the long-term interest of the Senate and the American people and our country."

-Senator Harry Reid, Congressional Record, S.11591, 12/8/06)

[kelpdiver 2]

turtlespeed

Emphasis Mine . . . [but altered slightly by kelpdiver]

Quote

GOP May Target Use of Filibuster
Senate Democrats Want To Retain the Right to Block Judicial Nominees


Republicans say that Democrats have abused the filibuster by blocking 10 of the president's 229 judicial nominees in his first term -- although confirmation of Bush nominees exceeds in most cases the first-term experience of presidents dating to Ronald Reagan. Describing the filibusters as intolerable, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) has hinted he may resort to an unusual parliamentary maneuver, dubbed the "nuclear option," to thwart such filibusters.

New? Maybe BY the REPUBLICANS, but right on par for the democrats when they get their panties in a twist.

Go back and read some history, it will make your posts much more intelligible.

So yes, let's be clear, fillibustering didn't fall into fashion in 2009. It was used relentlessly in Clinton's first two years as well, and by the Democrats against the last 3 presidents. However, I think it is accurate to say that the Democrats have been less steady in its use and abuse.

I mentioned that this is a Senate rule, not a check/balance. In the House, the closest analog is the power of the Speaker to set the calendar, and if desired, to bury bills indefinitely. And the current Speaker made use of this during the shutdown in October, setting a rule such that even if the Democrats got enough GOP members interested in passing legislation to reopen, it would not see the light of day.

[beowulf 1]

wmw999

It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

The majority rule is not always right.

[kallend 1,620]

rushmc

******It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

Fillibuster has been around a long time. It's nothing new.

Over 200 years worth in one fashion or another

And it has been used and abused by both sides for just as long

If the rule change is so bad, I look forward to its being reversed next time the GOP has a majority in the Senate. They can vote for that on day 1 after the new Senators are sworn in.

They can then put their votes where their mouths are and prove to us that they are not hypocrites.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

kallend

*********It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

Fillibuster has been around a long time. It's nothing new.

Over 200 years worth in one fashion or another

And it has been used and abused by both sides for just as long

If the rule change is so bad, I look forward to its being reversed next time the GOP has a majority in the Senate. They can vote for that on day 1 after the new Senators are sworn in.

They can then put their votes where their mouths are and prove to us that they are not hypocrites.

If your post is to me you have comprehension problems

As for hypocrites
The dems and the president have proven they are today with the rule change

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[beowulf 1]

kallend

*********It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

Fillibuster has been around a long time. It's nothing new.

Over 200 years worth in one fashion or another

And it has been used and abused by both sides for just as long

If the rule change is so bad, I look forward to its being reversed next time the GOP has a majority in the Senate. They can vote for that on day 1 after the new Senators are sworn in.

They can then put their votes where their mouths are and prove to us that they are not hypocrites.

That is pathetic. Both Republicans and Democrats have wanted to do this. So far only the Democrats have been so bold as to actually do it. It's unlikely that it will ever be reversed. Why? Because when the Republicans are in office they will abuse it just like the Democrats who started this will abuse it now.

[kallend 1,620]

beowulf

************It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

Fillibuster has been around a long time. It's nothing new.

Over 200 years worth in one fashion or another

And it has been used and abused by both sides for just as long

If the rule change is so bad, I look forward to its being reversed next time the GOP has a majority in the Senate. They can vote for that on day 1 after the new Senators are sworn in.

They can then put their votes where their mouths are and prove to us that they are not hypocrites.

That is pathetic. Both Republicans and Democrats have wanted to do this. So far only the Democrats have been so bold as to actually do it. It's unlikely that it will ever be reversed. Why? Because when the Republicans are in office they will abuse it just like the Democrats who started this will abuse it now.

Clearly you believe that the GOP whining and wailing today is just hypocrisy, then.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[yoink 321]

turtlespeed

And then there is Miss Dis-Ingenuousness, Michelle Obama . . . “We don’t believe in handouts. We don’t think anyone should get a free ride,” Obama said during a fundraising speech for Senate Democrats in New York Monday, according to the Washington Examiner.


BWAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!

So I have a question:

Do you really believe this is unique to the party you don't like, or do you have the honesty to admit that every party says 'no to handouts' while getting ever increasing donations...
and you're cherry picking examples to try score some sort of ridiculous points?

Hippocrasy is the coin in trade for every politician.

[beowulf 1]

kallend

***************It's politics as usual .

The whole nuclear option thing is bullshit anyway. It seems that a simple majority was how things were done for most of the time that we've had houses of Congress; this whole filibuster-as-normal thing started fairly recently.

Wendy P.

Fillibuster has been around a long time. It's nothing new.

Over 200 years worth in one fashion or another

And it has been used and abused by both sides for just as long

If the rule change is so bad, I look forward to its being reversed next time the GOP has a majority in the Senate. They can vote for that on day 1 after the new Senators are sworn in.

They can then put their votes where their mouths are and prove to us that they are not hypocrites.

That is pathetic. Both Republicans and Democrats have wanted to do this. So far only the Democrats have been so bold as to actually do it. It's unlikely that it will ever be reversed. Why? Because when the Republicans are in office they will abuse it just like the Democrats who started this will abuse it now.

Clearly you believe that the GOP whining and wailing today is just hypocrisy, then.

Yes and no
They are upset for good reason but I think when they have control of the Senate they won't reverse it.