JerryBaumchen 1,040 #126 October 28, 2013 Hi rush, This was a Letter to the Editor in my local paper: It's premature and unfair to criticize the Affordable Care Act when its significant reforms don't start to take effect until January. Calling Obamacare a failure over early website problems is political propaganda at its worst. . Rep. Daniel Reed, R-NY, said that Americans would come to feel "the lash of the dictator.' Sen. Daniel Hastings, R-DE., declared it would "end the progress of a great country:' '. Rep. John Taber, R-NY, said it would "enslave workers.' Rep. ThomasA. Jenkins, R-OH, called it a "compulsion of the rankest kind.' The conservative American Liberty League called it "the end of democracy.' A Chamber of Commerce resolution called it unconstitutional. The Republican nominee for president called it "a fraud on the working man" and "a cruel hoax" and wanted to repeal it. Though these statements may sound familiar to recent ones, they were made by Republicans and their allies in the mid -1930S while criticizing new legislation called Social Security. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #127 October 29, 2013 JerryBaumchen Hi rush, This was a Letter to the Editor in my local paper: It's premature and unfair to criticize the Affordable Care Act when its significant reforms don't start to take effect until January. Calling Obamacare a failure over early website problems is political propaganda at its worst. . Rep. Daniel Reed, R-NY, said that Americans would come to feel "the lash of the dictator.' Sen. Daniel Hastings, R-DE., declared it would "end the progress of a great country:' '. Rep. John Taber, R-NY, said it would "enslave workers.' Rep. ThomasA. Jenkins, R-OH, called it a "compulsion of the rankest kind.' The conservative American Liberty League called it "the end of democracy.' A Chamber of Commerce resolution called it unconstitutional. The Republican nominee for president called it "a fraud on the working man" and "a cruel hoax" and wanted to repeal it. Though these statements may sound familiar to recent ones, they were made by Republicans and their allies in the mid -1930S while criticizing new legislation called Social Security. JerryBaumchen The two programs are not comparable and they were right anyway and they still are"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #128 October 29, 2013 QuoteThough these statements may sound familiar to recent ones, they were made by Republicans and their allies in the mid -1930S while criticizing new legislation called Social Security. And therein lies the real tragedy of just saying what you feel you need to say to get re-elected. People shouting "It's the end of the world." and "It's a whole new world." and no one saying, "Hey, within a generation this will be a losing deal for everyone in real dollars." or "This is going to get us into trouble if the population of workers declines or even levels off." or even, "Didn't we send a guy who tried this back to Italy... ...just last summer?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OHCHUTE 0 #129 October 29, 2013 SkyDekkerI don't understand what the issue is. If your insurance doesn't cover it, just pay for it yourself. If you cannot afford it, you simply haven't worked hard enough. Why are you protecting all these lazy people? Next thing you are going to advocate for all illegals to be automatically covered too. The US is doomed with all these lazy idiots depending on hand outs. Hold the phone. The Latino (illegals) healthcare website is in the works. For now, just call. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #130 October 29, 2013 OHCHUTE***I don't understand what the issue is. If your insurance doesn't cover it, just pay for it yourself. If you cannot afford it, you simply haven't worked hard enough. Why are you protecting all these lazy people? Next thing you are going to advocate for all illegals to be automatically covered too. The US is doomed with all these lazy idiots depending on hand outs. Hold the phone. The Latino (illegals) healthcare website is in the works. For now, just call.Actually they said it was fully operational, the government just didn't turn it on.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #131 October 30, 2013 I looked at the website today and it was worse than I feared. The key thing to keep in mind is the IRS's High Deductible Health Plan definition. When you get your health insurance via such a plan you're allowed to fund a Health Savings Account with pre-tax dollars. As of $2013 that required a $1250 ($2500 family) deductible and $6250 ($12,500 family) out-of-pocket maximum. For a middle class Californian paying 28% Federal income tax and 9.3% state tax the inability to use a HSA or employer based Flexible Spending Account means that planned medical expenses like glasses and dentists visits cost 59% more in terms of what's left of your paycheck after health care. You cannot pay insurance premiums (except for Medicare, COBRA, and long-term-care insurance) with HSA money; other cynics would probably be right in suggesting that's intentional to keep people in expensive employer-based plans which are paid for with pre-tax money. The least expensive plan I could get for my wife and I is $700/month with a $5000 deductible ($10K family) and 40% co-insurance with a $6350 ($12.7K family) out-of-pocket maximum. Silver is $933/month with a $2000 deductible and 30% co-insurance with $6350 out of pocket maximum. This plan makes no sense with at most one unhealthy person or two people with minor pre-existing conditions - assuming a 28% Federal tax rate and 9.3% state tax rate you'd be better off with the bronze plan and setting up an Health Savings Account which would accumulate $4452 a year (you get to use pre-tax dollars which means the $233 you'd have post-tax is $371 pre-tax) with the difference in price disregarding investment gains. Gold would run $1100 a month with "no deductible" and 20% co-insurance up to $6350. This makes less sense than the silver plan because it's no longer a HDHP which is a 60% penalty on things like glasses and dental care for many people. It costs $7655 more than the bronze plan. With only one person developing health problems you'd be guaranteed to spend more because the bronze plan has a $6350 per-person out of pocket maximum. Platinum would be $1263/month with no-deductible and 10% co-insurance up to $4000. $10,775 more than the bronze plan. D-U-M-B. The chances of requiring health spending where you'd come out ahead versus the bronze plan are miniscule - either you're going to be way under or way over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bignugget 0 #132 October 31, 2013 http://www.wtae.com/news/local/allegheny/pittsburgh-woman-finds-incredible-deal-with-affordable-care-act/-/10927008/22698256/-/l53xqa/-/index.html?hpt=us_bn7 57 year old gets a $77/month policy. Not bad, not bad. Probably voted for Obama. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 196 #133 October 31, 2013 Bignuggethttp://www.wtae.com/news/local/allegheny/pittsburgh-woman-finds-incredible-deal-with-affordable-care-act/-/10927008/22698256/-/l53xqa/-/index.html?hpt=us_bn7 57 year old gets a $77/month policy. Not bad, not bad. Probably voted for Obama. Once again no details as to what the policy actually is. $77/month can look pretty good until you realize there's a $10,000 deductible.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 196 #134 October 31, 2013 DrewEckhardt I looked at the website today and it was worse than I feared. The key thing to keep in mind is the IRS's High Deductible Health Plan definition. When you get your health insurance via such a plan you're allowed to fund a Health Savings Account with pre-tax dollars. As of $2013 that required a $1250 ($2500 family) deductible and $6250 ($12,500 family) out-of-pocket maximum. For a middle class Californian paying 28% Federal income tax and 9.3% state tax the inability to use a HSA or employer based Flexible Spending Account means that planned medical expenses like glasses and dentists visits cost 59% more in terms of what's left of your paycheck after health care. You cannot pay insurance premiums (except for Medicare, COBRA, and long-term-care insurance) with HSA money; other cynics would probably be right in suggesting that's intentional to keep people in expensive employer-based plans which are paid for with pre-tax money. The least expensive plan I could get for my wife and I is $700/month with a $5000 deductible ($10K family) and 40% co-insurance with a $6350 ($12.7K family) out-of-pocket maximum. Silver is $933/month with a $2000 deductible and 30% co-insurance with $6350 out of pocket maximum. This plan makes no sense with at most one unhealthy person or two people with minor pre-existing conditions - assuming a 28% Federal tax rate and 9.3% state tax rate you'd be better off with the bronze plan and setting up an Health Savings Account which would accumulate $4452 a year (you get to use pre-tax dollars which means the $233 you'd have post-tax is $371 pre-tax) with the difference in price disregarding investment gains. Gold would run $1100 a month with "no deductible" and 20% co-insurance up to $6350. This makes less sense than the silver plan because it's no longer a HDHP which is a 60% penalty on things like glasses and dental care for many people. It costs $7655 more than the bronze plan. With only one person developing health problems you'd be guaranteed to spend more because the bronze plan has a $6350 per-person out of pocket maximum. Platinum would be $1263/month with no-deductible and 10% co-insurance up to $4000. $10,775 more than the bronze plan. D-U-M-B. The chances of requiring health spending where you'd come out ahead versus the bronze plan are miniscule - either you're going to be way under or way over. I see the obvious problem...you're in the line for bread. The line for insurance is over there komrade.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #135 October 31, 2013 airdvr ***http://www.wtae.com/news/local/allegheny/pittsburgh-woman-finds-incredible-deal-with-affordable-care-act/-/10927008/22698256/-/l53xqa/-/index.html?hpt=us_bn7 57 year old gets a $77/month policy. Not bad, not bad. Probably voted for Obama. Once again no details as to what the policy actually is. $77/month can look pretty good until you realize there's a $10,000 deductible. we also learned yesterday that this person has mandated maternity coverage Not bad Not bad at all"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #136 October 31, 2013 Bignugget http://www.wtae.com/news/local/allegheny/pittsburgh-woman-finds-incredible-deal-with-affordable-care-act/-/10927008/22698256/-/l53xqa/-/index.html?hpt=us_bn7 57 year old gets a $77/month policy. Not bad, not bad. Probably voted for Obama. Quote NBC: ObamaCare Explodes Small Business Owner's Premium By 400% Not bad Not bad at allAgain Paying for coverage they do not want or need"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #137 October 31, 2013 Speaking of people loving good deals: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-navigator-hasnt-signed-anyone-because-its-too-expensive_765629.html "Thus far everybody has taken a look at the rates and they've walked out the door."You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #138 October 31, 2013 Hmmm Just you and a few of the lucky get good deals? http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-navigator-hasnt-signed-anyone-because-its-too-expensive_765629.html QuoteObamacare Navigator Hasn't Signed Up Anyone Because It's Too Expensive "Thus far everybody has taken a look at the rates and they've walked out the door.""America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bignugget 0 #139 October 31, 2013 I don't wonder. I solved it. Since I support Obama, he didn't screw me over. Same with the old lady, and Kallend. I find irony in you citing a report from Al Jazeera too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #140 October 31, 2013 Bignugget I don't wonder. I solved it. Since I support Obama, he didn't screw me over. Same with the old lady, and Kallend. I find irony in you citing a report from Al Jazeera too. Not as much irony as you posting he who is loudest has the least to say"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OHCHUTE 0 #141 November 1, 2013 Early results show most want Medicare, not a plan they need to pay for. Gold, Silver and Platinum plan inducement must not have been enough to attract people who have any money to buy insurance. We're basically left with an expanding Medicare which will cost the gov't billions. No problem. Billions are like what millions use to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites