ACA

[rushmc 18]

jclalor

Just out of idol curiosity, if the American way of life as we know it is about to collapse, why is the stock market at record highs?

Does that really make sense to you?

You need only look at how much printed money the fed is using to buy bonds
And they are talking about uping the amount to $1T a month

Think that can continue?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

My deductible didn't change.

Mine did, it doubled.

Quote

Why did you change coverage?

The plan I had was no longer offered.

[Bignugget 0]

DaVinci

Quote

My deductible didn't change.

Mine did, it doubled.

***Why did you change coverage?

The plan I had was no longer offered.


Then it didn't meet the minimum standards, or your employer decided it is cheaper for them to just make you find your own.

Why should you get more coverage for the same price?

Its the capitalism you love at work.

Its either your fault for not carrying adequate insurance to start with, or your fault for working with such a shitty employer that they won't make a little less to continue covering employees the way they were.

[turtlespeed 212]

Bignugget

***

Quote

My deductible didn't change.

Mine did, it doubled.

***Why did you change coverage?

The plan I had was no longer offered.


Then it didn't meet the minimum standards, or your employer decided it is cheaper for them to just make you find your own.

Why should you get more coverage for the same price?

Its the capitalism you love at work.

Its either your fault for not carrying adequate insurance to start with, or your fault for working with such a shitty employer that they won't make a little less to continue covering employees the way they were.

I love this . . . No matter what happens, the decisions of the government are infallible. Its some one else's fault.

Amazing.

What if maybe he wasn't employed at the time. Maybe he just got out of school. Still his fault?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Bignugget 0]

Yea, see part 1.

He either carried inadequate coverage, which would put the burden on the taxpayer when he was seriously injured....


OR

His employer carried coverage they are choosing not to carry anymore.


Those are the only 2 scenarios I can come up with that end with him having to change policy.

Its the pinnacle of the right-wing. Stop blaming others and take personal responsibility for your decisions.

You guys made your choices, now you have to live with the consequences.

[champu 1]

Bignugget

inadequate coverage

You're playing very fast and loose with the term "inadequate."

According to the department of health and human services 105 million people including 89 percent of people who had individually purchased coverage had what you are calling "inadequate" insurance because it didn't meet the ACA standard of having no lifetime limit. That means that all of those plans had to change. 105 million peoples' plans changed in at least that way over the last few years and I would estimate that in 0% of those cases that was the only thing that changed.

You and I have plans that didn't change much. The increase in the cost of mine was non-trivial, but has been spread out over the last three years and my employer ate most of it so it doesn't affect me that much. You sound like you're in the same boat.

Good for us.

For the 10 million people out there that had "inadequate" individual plans, life is a box of chocolates. They have exactly zero negotiating power with their insurance companies over what ways their plans are modified. The ACA imposed limits to prevent insurance companies from jacking up premiums as a result of the mandated changes, so guess what knob they turn to so that they come out ahead? Deductibles.

Just because you don't believe the ACA could possibly be a screw job for anyone doesn't make it so.

[normiss 622]

I also see he has confused socialism with capitalism.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

champu

The ACA imposed limits to prevent insurance companies from jacking up premiums as a result of the mandated changes, so guess what knob they turn to so that they come out ahead? Deductibles.

It did not.

ACA requires minimum medical loss ratios (spending on healthcare and preventative services as a fraction of premium collections) of 80% for small-group/individual plans and 85% for large group plans with lower exceptions for high-deductible situations. Any excess collections must be refunded (my company got back a few tenths of a percent because the insurance company didn't guess quite right).

It does not allow premium increases for pre-existing conditions and limits age related increases because old people can't be charged more than 3X young people.

Apart from those limits insurers can raise their rates as much as they want, although boards of politically appointed people will review increases. In the unlikely event those increases are found to be "unreasonable" the insurers get kicked out of the exchanges they must participate in to gain access to consumers receiving federal subsidies. Of course this doesn't apply to insurers who choose not to participate in the exchanges like giant Aetna that opted out of California's exchange.

Some felt they'd be more competitive if they kept prices the same and reduced what they sold consumers although that was a business decision not a government mandate.

[Bignugget 0]

champu

***inadequate coverage

You're playing very fast and loose with the term "inadequate."

According to the department of health and human services 105 million people including 89 percent of people who had individually purchased coverage had what you are calling "inadequate" insurance because it didn't meet the ACA standard of having no lifetime limit. That means that all of those plans had to change. 105 million peoples' plans changed in at least that way over the last few years and I would estimate that in 0% of those cases that was the only thing that changed.

You and I have plans that didn't change much. The increase in the cost of mine was non-trivial, but has been spread out over the last three years and my employer ate most of it so it doesn't affect me that much. You sound like you're in the same boat.

Good for us.

For the 10 million people out there that had "inadequate" individual plans, life is a box of chocolates. They have exactly zero negotiating power with their insurance companies over what ways their plans are modified. The ACA imposed limits to prevent insurance companies from jacking up premiums as a result of the mandated changes, so guess what knob they turn to so that they come out ahead? Deductibles.

Just because you don't believe the ACA could possibly be a screw job for anyone doesn't make it so.


I believe some people could get screwed.

I just think its their own fault.

Personal responsibility.

You and I were responsible enough to carry adequate insurance.

The rest, irresponsible.

Now they pay the price for irresponsibility by having to go get the coverage they should have been carrying anyways, and it costing them more now than it would have had they signed up for it when we did.

[normiss 622]

They also provided to allow the insurance companies to charge 2x standard rates to smokers, correct?

[normiss 622]

How very elitist of you.

Poor families can't afford insurance in their family budgets by and large....it's not simply a matter of irresponsibility.
It's a matter of prioritizing the choices they can afford to make.

[Bignugget 0]

normiss

How very elitist of you.

Poor families can't afford insurance in their family budgets by and large....it's not simply a matter of irresponsibility.
It's a matter of prioritizing the choices they can afford to make.

Sure it is.

Everything is about personal responsibility and can be changed/affected by just trying harder and prioritizing properly.

Ask turtle.

[champu 1]

DrewEckhardt

***
The ACA imposed limits to prevent insurance companies from jacking up premiums as a result of the mandated changes, so guess what knob they turn to so that they come out ahead? Deductibles.

It did not.

You're absolutely correct. I should have said ACA included measures that attempted to head off sharp rate increases, but with no guarentees, and nothing that said they couldn't just make their coverage worse in non-mandated aspects.

[champu 1]

Bignugget

I believe some people could get screwed.

I just think its their own fault.

Personal responsibility.

You and I were responsible enough to carry adequate insurance.

The rest, irresponsible.

Now they pay the price for irresponsibility by having to go get the coverage they should have been carrying anyways, and it costing them more now than it would have had they signed up for it when we did.

Again, you're equating that which meets all mandates and that which is adequate, and that's complete nonsense.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

normiss

They also provided to allow the insurance companies to charge 2x standard rates to smokers, correct?

Just 50% more.

[Bignugget 0]

champu

***I believe some people could get screwed.

I just think its their own fault.

Personal responsibility.

You and I were responsible enough to carry adequate insurance.

The rest, irresponsible.

Now they pay the price for irresponsibility by having to go get the coverage they should have been carrying anyways, and it costing them more now than it would have had they signed up for it when we did.

Again, you're equating that which meets all mandates and that which is adequate, and that's complete nonsense.

Well no...the are equal.

By definition.

Adequate coverage is defined as coverage that meets the mandated minimum.

[turtlespeed 212]

normiss

I also see he has confused socialism with capitalism.

LOL

Yeah . . . you saw that too, huh?

Maybe he should go back and re-read his world economics books.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

Bignugget

******I believe some people could get screwed.

I just think its their own fault.

Personal responsibility.

You and I were responsible enough to carry adequate insurance.

The rest, irresponsible.

Now they pay the price for irresponsibility by having to go get the coverage they should have been carrying anyways, and it costing them more now than it would have had they signed up for it when we did.

Again, you're equating that which meets all mandates and that which is adequate, and that's complete nonsense.

Well no...the are equal.

By definition.

Adequate coverage is defined as coverage that meets the mandated minimum.

Accept you seem to be forgetting what is going to happen when the rest of the country's pre existing conditions kick in and the insurance companies cant bear that burden under their mandates.

But then yiu get what you want as they go belly up. Single payer system.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Bignugget 0]

Well, I don't know that I can 'forget what is going to happen'...because I don't know it....and I would need to know it to forget it.

Maybe you do know what is going to happen and that is why you are so passionate. Like in the Nicholas Cage movie where he finds that paper with the numbers from aliens. I would imagine that to be very frustrating, seeing the future but having no way to influence it via the present.

I will just have to sit back and watch while paying my nominally increasing premiums and keeping my same deductibles.

Sucks to be you, I take responsibility for my actions, and am sure glad they were the right ones as they pertain to keeping my premiums and deductibles low!

[kelpdiver 2]

Iago

Why? If they cant charge women for maternity why can they charge smokers for smoking? I feel so much better now that the ACA requires single men to carry maternity coverage.

as we know that women only get impregnate by married men.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Iago

***How very elitist of you.

Poor families can't afford insurance in their family budgets by and large....it's not simply a matter of irresponsibility.
It's a matter of prioritizing the choices they can afford to make.

Thats why the taxpayers fund Medicaid.

Prior to Obamacare, qualifying for Medicaid in Colorado as a single person required earning less than $100/month (as in one hundred, I did not leave off a zero). Lots of poor people weren't covered by Medicaid and literally could not afford insurance (period, as in not choose between insurance and larger apartment or even any place to live at all).

[champu 1]

Bignugget

******I believe some people could get screwed.

I just think its their own fault.

Personal responsibility.

You and I were responsible enough to carry adequate insurance.

The rest, irresponsible.

Now they pay the price for irresponsibility by having to go get the coverage they should have been carrying anyways, and it costing them more now than it would have had they signed up for it when we did.

Again, you're equating that which meets all mandates and that which is adequate, and that's complete nonsense.

Well no...the are equal.

By definition.

Adequate coverage is defined as coverage that meets the mandated minimum.

The mandates forced modification of approximately 105 million policies in ways that make those policies worse for most of those policy holders*. In some cases a little bit worse (maybe the premiums go up a bit) in some cases a lot worse (maybe the deductibles double.)

*Searching yields sparse results but conservatively referencing an article on hemophilia.org less than 0.03% of people are affected by lifetime limits. So for somewhere between a three sigma to four sigma person, they're coverage was entirely adequate in terms of not being a burden on society and their coverage now serves them worse.

You're well within your rights to think the ACA is great, but some people are getting screwed, and it is not necessarily through any fault of their own.

[turtlespeed 212]

DrewEckhardt

******How very elitist of you.

Poor families can't afford insurance in their family budgets by and large....it's not simply a matter of irresponsibility.
It's a matter of prioritizing the choices they can afford to make.

Thats why the taxpayers fund Medicaid.

Prior to Obamacare, qualifying for Medicaid in Colorado as a single person required earning less than $100/month (as in one hundred, I did not leave off a zero). Lots of poor people weren't covered by Medicaid and literally could not afford insurance (period, as in not choose between insurance and larger apartment or even any place to live at all).

I guess Colorado is pretty fucked up then, huh?

But at least you can get lung cancer from smoking weed legally now.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 622]

more weed lies

No cancer.

[airdvr 197]

DrewEckhardt

Prior to Obamacare, qualifying for Medicaid in Colorado as a single person required earning less than $100/month (as in one hundred, I did not leave off a zero).

http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1251852630198&ssbinary=true Not so.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne