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kallend

Record penalties for JPMC

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weekender

***
$13 Billion in penalties for JP Morgan Chase. Yet still the executives who brought the bank to this get to keep their jobs and huge incomes.

Until the execs have to show some personal accountability, where is the deterrent to such activities?



ok, more on topic.

keep in mind that JPMC are being held accountable for the problems of Bear Stearns and Wash Mutual, which they purchased. they were the one major bank that was not in a need of a bailout.

You want to call for the heads of people then go after Bear and Wash Mutual. they are the ones who caused their banks to fail. we should all be glad that JPMC was solvent and clean enough purchase them. otherwise their would be nobody around for the gov't to fine.

Except that hard evidence (some obtained from whistleblowers) shows that Jpm's own internal due diligence did in fact reveal the defects in Bear and Wash's portfolios; so when Jpm bundled those legacy assets into (serrupticiously value-impaired) securities they (and their top and many middle execs) knew exactly what they were doing. Bank of America did the exact same thing when they bought out Countrywide and Merrill Lynch. So yes, JPM's top execs do indeed face potential personal criminal liability.

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Andy9o8

******
$13 Billion in penalties for JP Morgan Chase. Yet still the executives who brought the bank to this get to keep their jobs and huge incomes.

Until the execs have to show some personal accountability, where is the deterrent to such activities?



ok, more on topic.

keep in mind that JPMC are being held accountable for the problems of Bear Stearns and Wash Mutual, which they purchased. they were the one major bank that was not in a need of a bailout.

You want to call for the heads of people then go after Bear and Wash Mutual. they are the ones who caused their banks to fail. we should all be glad that JPMC was solvent and clean enough purchase them. otherwise their would be nobody around for the gov't to fine.

Except that hard evidence (some obtained from whistleblowers) shows that Jpm's own internal due diligence did in fact reveal the defects in Bear and Wash's portfolios; so when Jpm bundled those legacy assets into (serrupticiously value-impaired) securities they (and their top and many middle execs) knew exactly what they were doing. Bank of America did the exact same thing when they bought out Countrywide and Merrill Lynch. So yes, JPM's top execs do indeed face potential personal criminal liability.

i am not familiar with what you are describing. Your timeline is different than how i understand this to have happened. i admit, i am not a bank historian.

Here is how i understand it. JP took over, at the gov't request, two failing banks. they assumed liability by doing so but expected to not be held accountable. they were wrong and now will have to pay for not doing their due diligence.
"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

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Gravitymaster

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$13 Billion in penalties for JP Morgan Chase. Yet still the executives who brought the bank to this get to keep their jobs and huge incomes.

Until the execs have to show some personal accountability, where is the deterrent to such activities?



Yeah, Obama should have fired all of them and replaced them with some of his cronies. :S

That's the ticket! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D


Chuck

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masterrig

******
$13 Billion in penalties for JP Morgan Chase. Yet still the executives who brought the bank to this get to keep their jobs and huge incomes.

Until the execs have to show some personal accountability, where is the deterrent to such activities?



Yeah, Obama should have fired all of them and replaced them with some of his cronies. :S

That's the ticket! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D


Chuck

As GM goes, so goes the country. :S

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Gravitymaster

*********
$13 Billion in penalties for JP Morgan Chase. Yet still the executives who brought the bank to this get to keep their jobs and huge incomes.

Until the execs have to show some personal accountability, where is the deterrent to such activities?



Yeah, Obama should have fired all of them and replaced them with some of his cronies. :S

That's the ticket! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D


Chuck

As GM goes, so goes the country. :S

Just look at Detroit!


Chuck

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Andy9o8

It was more like: Jpm did their due diligence, recognized how bad it was, but nevertheless proceede as I described above, actively concealing it from investors, auditors, analysts and govt regulators.



This is not how i understand the situation. Can you please show me where you read this? it goes against what ive believed or read. as i admitted, im not a bank historian but your comments are contrary to how others have described it to me.

i see no reason for JPM to hide what they found since it would only be a detriment to them in the future. as events have proven. also, im not sure how they hide anything from investors as all the debt is shown in public filings. its right there on the 8k's, 10'q etc...
"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mavB1lbtIow

"Too Big to Fail has become Too Big for Trial"

She has a very good point. I think that's what your looking for.

The problem with the current way the banks are dealt with is they are only punished monetarily.

They basically get taxed for part of their take, to me that's like a bank robber who stole 12 million dollars worth of stuff has to give them (the government) 4 or 5 mil ( a portion of there theft) to get away with it.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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It's hard to type this on my phone. The earlier 10 Qs & Ks & investors conferences were less revealing than the later ones. The magnitude amounted to deliberate concealment and wilful misprepresentations. I'm closely familiar with much of the whistleblower accounts and inside emails and multiple internal working drafts of financial statements that substantiate the conspiracy. It wasn't mere incompetence, it was willful, deliberate fraud.

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Andy9o8

It's hard to type this on my phone. The earlier 10 Qs & Ks & investors conferences were less revealing than the later ones. The magnitude amounted to deliberate concealment and wilful misprepresentations. I'm closely familiar with much of the whistleblower accounts and inside emails and multiple internal working drafts of financial statements that substantiate the conspiracy. It wasn't mere incompetence, it was willful, deliberate fraud.



I'm sorry you are asking me to just trust you have information that confirms your thesis, which is contrary to everything i have read and know. you are claiming to be aware of criminal acts committed by JP and evidenced by documents that are not public. since i do not know you i cannot simply take you at your word. im sure you will understand.
"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

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Andy9o8

I understand. My direct involvement is professional. To tell you more, I'd have to, well....
:)



Hmmm - My guess is charge a hefty retainer.:ph34r:
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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kallend


So what is the $13B fine for, if not malfeasance by JPMC?



To be precise, it's a settlement, not a fine, to end the government probe, and to move forward. Same thing happened with Goldman.

And as weekender goes on to note, a significant majority of this involved BS and WAMU, companies that failed as a result of their behavior. Dimon was able to buy BS for a song, though these costs on the back end may affect the final ROI. And of course, may affect their willingness to participate in the next crisis. Wells Fargo is also on record for their displeasure at being forced to participate in TARP. And aside from Blackrock, these are the two strongest financials out there.

If, as Andy suggests but cannot/will not give actual detail for, the feds can make criminal charges against persons at JPM - all power to them. So far, it's just been a lot of populist hot air.

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kallend

dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/10/23/jury-finds-bank-of-america-liable-in-mortgage-case-nicknamed-the-hustle/?_r=0

Another venal bank. This time an individual might just be held accountable too.



It was Countrywide that committed these acts, fyi. BAC bought them during the crisis and is now being held liable for those acts. In case you actually cared about what happened.
"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

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weekender

***dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/10/23/jury-finds-bank-of-america-liable-in-mortgage-case-nicknamed-the-hustle/?_r=0

Another venal bank. This time an individual might just be held accountable too.



It was Countrywide that committed these acts, fyi. BAC bought them during the crisis and is now being held liable for those acts. In case you actually cared about what happened.

Like JPM didn't know MOzillo was dirty. Didn't JPM have accountants that surveyed the books of Countrywide prior to buying them. Mozillo paid 67m dollar fine and never went to jail. Banksters-- paying fines is just the cost of doing business.

Banksters have licenses to steal. They raided our treasury and never held a gun or wore a mask. No one went to jail. Scum bags. Plus, they get the keep much of the money they take. Mozillo is enjoying life.

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OHCHUTE

******dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/10/23/jury-finds-bank-of-america-liable-in-mortgage-case-nicknamed-the-hustle/?_r=0

Another venal bank. This time an individual might just be held accountable too.



It was Countrywide that committed these acts, fyi. BAC bought them during the crisis and is now being held liable for those acts. In case you actually cared about what happened.

Like JPM didn't know MOzillo was dirty. Didn't JPM have accountants that surveyed the books of Countrywide prior to buying them. Mozillo paid 67m dollar fine and never went to jail. Banksters-- paying fines is just the cost of doing business.

Banksters have licenses to steal. They raided our treasury and never held a gun or wore a mask. No one went to jail. Scum bags. Plus, they get the keep much of the money they take. Mozillo is enjoying life.

you are confused as always. BAC is not the same as JPM. two seperate banks. JPM bought Wamu and Bear. you didnt know that because you do not understand finance.

for everyone but OCHUTE because he is confused. my point was just to make sure the OP has his pitch fork pointed at the right people. thats all.
"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

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weekender

***dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/10/23/jury-finds-bank-of-america-liable-in-mortgage-case-nicknamed-the-hustle/?_r=0

Another venal bank. This time an individual might just be held accountable too.



It was Countrywide that committed these acts, fyi. BAC bought them during the crisis and is now being held liable for those acts. In case you actually cared about what happened.

It wasn't part of the DOJ's case, but BOA has far more than mere successor liability re: Countrywide. After the merger, BAC realized the poor quality of CW's mortgage portfolio, yet wrapped Cw's mortgages into securities, then deliberately misled investors re the quality of those securities. If this sounds familiar to what I said above re JPM, that's no accident. No, I don't expect you to just accept my say-so as a stranger, but Yes, I've seen the evidence, lots of it. When the private civil lawsuits are over, major consequences will be exacted.

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Andy9o8

******dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/10/23/jury-finds-bank-of-america-liable-in-mortgage-case-nicknamed-the-hustle/?_r=0

Another venal bank. This time an individual might just be held accountable too.



It was Countrywide that committed these acts, fyi. BAC bought them during the crisis and is now being held liable for those acts. In case you actually cared about what happened.

It wasn't part of the DOJ's case, but BOA has far more than mere successor liability re: Countrywide. After the merger, BAC realized the poor quality of CW's mortgage portfolio, yet wrapped Cw's mortgages into securities, then deliberately misled investors re the quality of those securities. If this sounds familiar to what I said above re JPM, that's no accident. No, I don't expect you to just accept my say-so as a stranger, but Yes, I've seen the evidence, lots of it. When the private civil lawsuits are over, major consequences will be exacted.

So you saying you have seen evidence that implicates JPM and BAC in criminal fraud that disproves everything anyone else has ever provided? including the Federal Gov't, Finra, SEC and every media report that has come out? gee, i wonder why i dont believe you. if it is true, i would assume you would keep that to yourself and not blather about it on the internet. you are not very discreet attorney.

No i dont believe you. i think you are making it up to defend your history of events. i could just as easily say i know the head corporate attorney at JPM and seen the documents that disprove yours. I dont know you but i hope you understand you do not sound credible in anyway.
"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

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The other cases dealt with other issues. I'm referring to several civil lawsuits already filed that are currently in the discovery phase and haven't gone to trial yet. The pleadings are of public record. Ive seen much of the discovery. You can be as skeptical a you wish, it really makes no difference.

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Andy9o8

The other cases dealt with other issues. I'm referring to several civil lawsuits already filed that are currently in the discovery phase and haven't gone to trial yet. The pleadings are of public record. Ive seen much of the discovery. You can be as skeptical a you wish, it really makes no difference.



Greg Johnson and I are getting a chuckle over your secret documents. Keep it coming.
"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

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I didnt say they were "secret", theyre in discovery and trial hasnt started yet. I'm not going keep arguing with you. You're miscasting much of what I'm saying so you can argue against it, like it's some kind of candidates' debate. I won't play that game. As I said,your skepticism really makes no difference.

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Andy9o8

I didnt say they were "secret", theyre in discovery and trial hasnt started yet. I'm not going keep arguing with you. You're miscasting much of what I'm saying so you can argue against it, like it's some kind of candidates' debate. I won't play that game. As I said,your skepticism really makes no difference.



i am being completely reasonable. on two separate occasions you have claimed to have seen documents that prove your argument. documents that you claim you cannot share.

I am not a historian nor an attorney but i am no fool either. i am someone who works in I-banking and has for 20 years. i know the heads of compliance at every major bank and my wife is a litigation attorney. your claims go against everything i have read or heard. all ive asked you to do is prove it to me in some way.

that is not unreasonable nor argumentative.
"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

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