DanG 1 #176 September 19, 2013 QuoteSurprised that you can walk in to a clinic and say such things and then have the doctors say oh he is fine. Bye have a nice day. From what I heard, he didn't say those things to a doctor. He said them to the cops, who properly reported it to the Navy security office. When he went to the clinic, he was complaining about insomnia. They asked about his mental state, and he denied any mental problems. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backintothesky 0 #177 September 19, 2013 I've have lived in 2 societies (UK and France) where guns are illegal for self defence. In both of these societies guns are available for purchase for sporting purposes - including AR-15s and other "assault rifles". The UK banned hand guns for sport because of a single shooting incident in Scotland. In France handguns are still legal. In both countries, like everywhere, you are allowed to meet lethal force with lethal force but good luck using your gun to do that as it has to be locked up in your house with ammunition stored in seperate areas of your dwelling. And, as I've said you cannot carry a gun, knife, cosh, baton, spray or anything to defend yourself in either country. Gun crime continues with illegal bought handguns, many young black boys are killed by other black boys in london, nottingham, manchester and other cities around the UK. They use guns, and if they can't get hold of guns they use kitchen knifes. In London's Notting Hill carnival myself and friends have witnessed 2 stabbings in one day. Where I used to work, in Victoria (London) a young school boy aged 15 was chased into the metro station by a gang of about 10-20 other school children brandishing samurai swords and kitchen knifes. They proceeded to brutally hack him to death in the middle of the evening rush hour in front of hundreds of commuters. All of whom could do nothing to intervene against an armed group. This is depressingly regular shit. In Woolwich, London, just a few months ago a young soldier was run over and decapitated by 2 men in broad daylight. Again, all civilians could do was watch in horror. By the team police turned up and shot the pair the young soldier was lying dead on the floor. In France just last week, the son of a jewelry store owner was shot dead by armed robbers after he attempted to resist their robbery. He was unarmed. Just a few days later another jewelry store managed to thwart an armed robbery because he, unlike the other store, actually exercised his right to own a firearm for self-defence (those whose job puts them in harms way in France can apply for the licence). He shot dead his attacker. In Marseille, France, barely a week goes by without more stories of people being killed with AK-47s. These firearms are legal in France in semi-automatic. But the ones used for the murders are fully-automatic and are brought illegally. Both the UK and France have (contrary to worldwide belief) HUGE gun-ownership. Nearly every house where I live in France has at least 2-3 firearms: usually semi-auto shotguns and high powered, high capacity hunting rifles. Yet the majority of killings are done with illegally obtained weapons or, where people where unable to get hold of firearms, blades. You talk a lot about banning guns and how it will solve everything. My experience leads me to disagree. BignuggetPersonally I think the outcome woulda been different if he had to use cordless drills and baseball bats to carry out his attack. Instead of being able to buy a shotgun the day before you go on a rampage while hearing the guys microwave talk to you through the walls. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #178 September 19, 2013 GravitymasterOh, now it's shotguns? I thought it was "Assault Weapons". They're all on the "to do" list. It doesn't matter what particular type of firearm was used in any given incident or how that relates to overall gun violence statistics, whatever it was it will be the next thing addressed in legislation. Some people will say, "that's good because fewer firearms is always good, damn it, no matter what." And some people will say, "well, I don't know that I agree with that." Or "I've already made my stance on that clear." And then the people representing them in their respective jurisdictions will support and pass bans on them and they won't say anything, write, or complain. As BikerBabe's linked article in her thread stated, politics has made discussions of any topic like this completely useless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,935 #179 September 19, 2013 I fail to see why it matters to the victims what type of firearm was used to shoot them. The issue isn't the type of gun. The issue is the ease with which nutjobs can get hold of guns - any guns.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #180 September 19, 2013 QuotePersonally I think the outcome woulda been different if he had to use cordless drills and baseball bats to carry out his attack. I think people who want to hurt people will find a way to hurt people.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #181 September 19, 2013 kallend I fail to see why it matters to the victims what type of firearm was used to shoot them. The issue isn't the type of gun. The issue is the ease with which nutjobs can get hold of guns - any guns. I agree with you. I will also add that buried in that problem is that of identifying nutjobs prior to them getting a gun and shooting people with it. I think we can get at least a little better at it pretty easily, but getting much better or good at it is more challenging and needs to be done with consideration of people's rights (not talking about the second amendment here, talking about privacy and due process) Agreements are great in forum discussions but much as I'm sure you're waiting with baited breath for NRA members to write the organization and to say, "hey, don't oppose just anything that comes along." I don't expect many people who are in favor of things like expanded background checks to write their representatives and say, "Hey, stop tacking on type-bans to every gun control measure you introduce." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bignugget 0 #182 September 19, 2013 Darius11QuotePersonally I think the outcome woulda been different if he had to use cordless drills and baseball bats to carry out his attack. I think people who want to hurt people will find a way to hurt people. I think its a lot harder to hurt people with cordless drills and baseball bats than guns. I know you think they are equally as deadly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #183 September 19, 2013 kallend I fail to see why it matters to the victims what type of firearm was used to shoot them. The issue isn't the type of gun. The issue is the ease with which nutjobs can get hold of guns - any guns. For those who want to ban AR-15s, it sure seems to matter, even though rifles are rarely used for crime. Now if we can just get Kallend to agree that it doesn't matter to victims if they're killed with guns or knives or bats, then we'll really be making progress. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #184 September 19, 2013 kelpdiverFor those who want to ban AR-15s, it sure seems to matter, even though rifles are rarely used for crime. With the exception, of course, of mass shootings in the last few years. So frequent it's almost boiler plate to report their use, which is precisely what happened in this case.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #185 September 19, 2013 quade***For those who want to ban AR-15s, it sure seems to matter, even though rifles are rarely used for crime. With the exception, of course, of mass shootings in the last few years. So frequent it's almost boiler plate to report their use, which is precisely what happened in this case. more people get beaten to death by hand than with rifles. Again, you're trying to make public policy on statistical outliers, which is nearly always stupid policy. Even Kallend seems to get this now. AK47 used to be the dirty word (like rottweilers before pit bulls replaced them) gun, now it's the AR15, though it is noteworthy that this is an entire class of guns, not a singular model like the Tec-9 (another hated model). It's not quite as generic as 'shotgun', but it's not terribly far either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #186 September 19, 2013 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/britishtrained-police-in-iraq-killed-prisoners-with-drills-516158.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1141594/Jealous-husband-murdered-wife-killed-electric-drill-ended-marriage-Facebook.html QuoteUp to a hundred bodies a day are found dumped on waste ground and rubbish tips around Baghdad. They’ve usually been dreadfully tortured. Acid and electric drills are the favourite methods and many of the bodies are still wearing police handcuffs. http://www.globalresearch.ca/iraq-s-death-squads/3879 You can have my electric drill when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #187 September 19, 2013 I think cordless angle grinders/cut-off tools, reciprocating saws, or circular saws would all be much more brutal/deadly weapons than cordless drills. Or a hand-held band saw... Yikes... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 763 #188 September 19, 2013 Precisely the way pit bull is used. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #189 September 19, 2013 That would be pretty grisly, for sure. I think the large availability and relatively low price of a Black and Decker or a Machita make them a favored weapon of Pro-Drillers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #190 September 20, 2013 BignuggetPersonally I think the outcome woulda been different if he had to use cordless drills and baseball bats to carry out his attack. Instead of being able to buy a shotgun the day before you go on a rampage while hearing the guys microwave talk to you through the walls. Heck He was just adopting Bidens advice"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #191 September 20, 2013 kallend . The issue is the ease with which nutjobs can get hold of guns - any guns. And how fast you can conspire to ban them all"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #192 September 20, 2013 Backintothesky This is depressingly regular shit. No it isn't. HTHNever try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #193 September 20, 2013 rushmc*** . The issue is the ease with which nutjobs can get hold of guns - any guns. And how fast you can conspire to ban them all While his non-nutjob neighbors obey the law..... http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-multiple-people-including-3yearold-shot-in-south-side-attack-20130919,0,352520.story "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backintothesky 0 #194 September 20, 2013 When you hear these incidents on the news (only a small portion of actual incidents) every other day it is regular and, given the subject matter, depressing. Stumpy*** This is depressingly regular shit. No it isn't. HTH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bignugget 0 #195 September 20, 2013 Gravitymasterhttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/britishtrained-police-in-iraq-killed-prisoners-with-drills-516158.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1141594/Jealous-husband-murdered-wife-killed-electric-drill-ended-marriage-Facebook.html QuoteUp to a hundred bodies a day are found dumped on waste ground and rubbish tips around Baghdad. They’ve usually been dreadfully tortured. Acid and electric drills are the favourite methods and many of the bodies are still wearing police handcuffs. http://www.globalresearch.ca/iraq-s-death-squads/3879 You can have my electric drill when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. Why do you keep going back to electric drills? The gun loving assertion here in SC is that CORDLESS drills are the deadly ones. While I tend to think the guy would have had trouble killing 12 people in the same amount of time with a CORDLESS drill....you are probably right, its probably just as likely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bignugget 0 #196 September 20, 2013 kelpdiver*** I fail to see why it matters to the victims what type of firearm was used to shoot them. The issue isn't the type of gun. The issue is the ease with which nutjobs can get hold of guns - any guns. For those who want to ban AR-15s, it sure seems to matter, even though rifles are rarely used for crime. Now if we can just get Kallend to agree that it doesn't matter to victims if they're killed with guns or knives or bats, then we'll really be making progress. When we can get you gun nuts to agree that it is way easier/faster/more effective to shoot 12 people than it is to kill them with cordless drills and ping pong balls we will be making progress. When we can get you gun nuts to agree that a crazy person like this man would be much less dangerous if armed with baseball bats, hockey sticks, and samurai swords, than with a shotgun and handgun, then we are making progress. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #197 September 20, 2013 Bignugget****** I fail to see why it matters to the victims what type of firearm was used to shoot them. The issue isn't the type of gun. The issue is the ease with which nutjobs can get hold of guns - any guns. For those who want to ban AR-15s, it sure seems to matter, even though rifles are rarely used for crime. Now if we can just get Kallend to agree that it doesn't matter to victims if they're killed with guns or knives or bats, then we'll really be making progress. When we can get you gun nuts to agree that it is way easier/faster/more effective to shoot 12 people than it is to kill them with cordless drills and ping pong balls we will be making progress. When we can get you gun nuts to agree that a crazy person like this man would be much less dangerous if armed with baseball bats, hockey sticks, and samurai swords, than with a shotgun and handgun, then we are making progress. When we can get you anti-2nd Amendment Gun-o-phobes to realize that when someone is bent on a mass killing, that the gun is only one tool. If you take it away, they will use pipe-bombs, swords, IED's or whatever else they can ge their hands on at the time to kill, then we will be making progress. When we can get you to understand that the problem is in our society and not in the availability of guns, then we will be making progress. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #198 September 20, 2013 Gravitymaster********* I fail to see why it matters to the victims what type of firearm was used to shoot them. The issue isn't the type of gun. The issue is the ease with which nutjobs can get hold ofguns - anyguns. For those who want to ban AR-15s, it sure seems to matter, even though rifles are rarely used for crime. Now if we can just get Kallend to agree that it doesn't matter to victims if they're killed withguns or knives or bats, then we'll really be making progress. When we can get you gun nuts to agree that it is way easier/faster/more effective to shoot 12 people than it is to kill them with cordless drills and ping pong balls we will be making progress. When we can get you gun nuts to agree that a crazy person like this man would be much less dangerous if armed with baseball bats, hockey sticks, and samurai swords, than with a shotgun and handgun, then we are making progress. When we can get you anti-2nd Amendment Gun-o-phobes to realize that when someone is bent on a mass killing, that the gun is only one tool. If you take it away, they will use pipe-bombs, swords, IED's or whatever else they can ge their hands on at the time to kill, then we will be making progress. When we can get you to understand that the problem is in our society and not in the availability of guns, then we will be making progress. #1!! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #199 September 20, 2013 QuoteI know you think they are equally as deadly. What makes something deadly?I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #200 September 20, 2013 QuoteWhile I tend to think the guy would have had trouble killing 12 people in the same amount of time with a CORDLESS drill....you are probably right, its probably just as likely. I think in your “reality” you think you can magically change the guys gun to a drill as the event is going on, your constantly ignoring the fact that the guy decided to kill people and if he was planning to use a drill or a bomb or a nail gun then he would have planned for that type of weapon. Your trying to fix Motive and insane people by banning an inanimate object. Do you not see the insanity in that?I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites