Why Must Everything Be a Medical Condition? (no guns or fracking)

[wmw999 2,114]

If one exposes oneself to disease that can be caught (e.g. traveling where there is malaria and not being very careful with the prophylactic treatment), does that constitute behavior-linked disease that should also be excluded?

How about fatty deposits in the arteries -- generally brought on by the types of food combined with lack of exercise. If you only eat healthy food, your chance goes WAY down. And maybe we should quit treating venereal diseases as well, since they come from behavior.

And injuries from optional activities -- including skydiving. Should they also be considered behavior issues rather than injuries?

Again, I'm not in favor of the current diseasification of discomfort. Discomfort is normal. But there are regions at the end where one shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath-water.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wmw999 2,114]

Quote

But it's still real, and not merely an artificial construct. The "problem" with ADD is that it's become over-diagnosed, and over-medicated, to the social detriment of (a) those who truly suffer from ADD, and (b) those ADD sufferers for whom stimulant medication is truly effectual and beneficial. This, in turn, leads to articles like in the OP, and then everyone jumps on the "ADD is bullshit" bandwagon.

This

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[chemist 0]

wmw999

How about fatty deposits in the arteries -- generally brought on by the types of food combined with lack of exercise. If you only eat healthy food, your chance goes WAY down. And maybe we should quit treating venereal diseases as well, since they come from behavior.

And injuries from optional activities -- including skydiving. Should they also be considered behavior issues rather than injuries?

I never said we shouldn't treat alcoholic livers, or lung cancer in smokers, or heart disease in over eaters.

[chemist 0]

wmw999

Quote

But it's still real, and not merely an artificial construct. The "problem" with ADD is that it's become over-diagnosed, and over-medicated, to the social detriment of (a) those who truly suffer from ADD, and (b) those ADD sufferers for whom stimulant medication is truly effectual and beneficial. This, in turn, leads to articles like in the OP, and then everyone jumps on the "ADD is bullshit" bandwagon.

This

I would argue the over-diagnosed issue is mainly to the detriment of the misdiagnosed.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Fighting over the definition of the conditions people need help with will not motivate them to seek out preventive and maintenance care. As it is most individuals already have an uphill battle with finding an easy way to get affordable care. As a future medical provider you should be encouraging people to seek out help to get healthier instead of putting the focus on labels which helps absolutely no one. Don't get hung up on what is essentially a medical billing issue. Unless of course your advice to people with addictions is "Man the fuck up" because then you are just part of the problem.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Andy9o8 0]

chemist

***

Quote

But it's still real, and not merely an artificial construct. The "problem" with ADD is that it's become over-diagnosed, and over-medicated, to the social detriment of (a) those who truly suffer from ADD, and (b) those ADD sufferers for whom stimulant medication is truly effectual and beneficial. This, in turn, leads to articles like in the OP, and then everyone jumps on the "ADD is bullshit" bandwagon.

This

I would argue the over-diagnosed issue is mainly to the detriment of the misdiagnosed.

You could also argue that pigs fly.

[chemist 0]

Andy9o8

You could also argue that pigs fly.

I consider forced medication to be a detriment. Especially since ADD medications are listed as controlled substances and are the most widely abused recreational drugs among students on college campuses.

[Andy9o8 0]

chemist

***
You could also argue that pigs fly.

I consider forced medication to be a detriment.

If you become a practicing clinician, you'll find yourself guided more by the needs of the individual patient, and less by one-size-fits-all sound bytes.

[chemist 0]

Andy9o8

******
You could also argue that pigs fly.

I consider forced medication to be a detriment.

If you become a practicing clinician, you'll find yourself guided more by the needs of the individual patient, and less by one-size-fits-all sound bytes.

It's child neglect if you refuse to give your kids ritalin so the force is real even though nobody is clenching open their jaws. Forced ADD meds are surprising to me, there are psychiatrists who've stuck up for pilots who need ritalin to focus (though they lost in court) and those psychiatrists have to be worried about being fooled by a drug addict pilots!!

You have to be the biggest pussy in my book to worry so much about what would happen to a kid at school without ritalin that you think it's child neglect/warrants taking the kids away.

[lawrocket 3]

So are you disagreeing with ADHD being a condition? Or are you personally objecting to treating the condition? Or are you objecting to treating it with amphetamines or methamphetamine?

I can assure you, ADHD is very real. I can assure you that treatments are quite effective. If a kid has 20/200 vision you'd probably not object to giving glasses. No, 2/200 vision is not a mmalignant condition but certainly is a quality-of-life thing and, dare I say, something that levels the playing field for things like scholastic performance.

Is ADHD overly diagnosed? I have no disagreement that it is. But what about those who really could use the help?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[champu 1]

lawrocket

So are you disagreeing with ADHD being a condition? Or are you personally objecting to treating the condition? Or are you objecting to treating it with amphetamines or methamphetamine?

Is ADHD overly diagnosed? I have no disagreement that it is. But what about those who really could use the help?

I could be mistaken, but I think all he or she said was that ADHD being over-diagnosed and over-medicated was more of a detriment to those who were put on drugs and shouldn't have been than it is to those who do have ADHD, get the drugs to help them, but then have to face a bit more of a stigma because their disease has been delegitimized.

[chemist 0]

of course it's real. So is being 'heart broken' when you get dumped. Or being 'home sick' when you're away from home. Just because we have experience does not mean that experience is caused by physical disease.

A physical disease can be defined and observed. I cannot define or observe a 'broken heart'. But I can define and observe heart disease.

[chemist 0]

champu

***So are you disagreeing with ADHD being a condition? Or are you personally objecting to treating the condition? Or are you objecting to treating it with amphetamines or methamphetamine?

Is ADHD overly diagnosed? I have no disagreement that it is. But what about those who really could use the help?

I could be mistaken, but I think all he or she said was that ADHD being over-diagnosed and over-medicated was more of a detriment to those who were put on drugs and shouldn't have been than it is to those who do have ADHD, get the drugs to help them, but then have to face a bit more of a stigma because their disease has been delegitimized.

and telling someone that "your child is sick and has to take mind altering capsules or they will be taken out of your custody" is not stigmatizing? I mean if the child is sick you have to be able to prove they are sick, which you cannot because there is no test to do so, that is what stigmatization is: diagnosing a child out of faith that it is true rather than any scientific evidence that proves it is true.

[Bolas 5]

skydiver30960

***Money.

Winner.

I DO agree with points made above that having a "medical condition" has become a badge that many are now PROUD to wear. It makes one special, worthy of pity and attention because if it's a condition it isn't your fault, it was a cross you were forced to bear. But that being said, it's all about money. Once a medical condition has a name, medications can be invented to fix treat it and it can be coded to be claimed on insurance claims.

Elvisio "I would like to add (no Obamacare) if permitted" Rodriguez

Just had to change one word.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[dmcoco84 4]

chemist

of course it's real. So is being 'heart broken' when you get dumped. Or being 'home sick' when you're away from home. Just because we have experience does not mean that experience is caused by physical disease.

A physical disease can be defined and observed. I cannot define or observe a 'broken heart'. But I can define and observe heart disease.

Could you please respond more directly to what lawrocket posted?

What you wrote above is nonsense.

Additionally, ADD, is a disorder... comparing it in any degree to being heart broken or home sick is nonsensical; as well as cardiovascular disease. Your post is incoherent.

[dmcoco84 4]

Quote

and telling someone that "your child is sick and has to take mind altering capsules or they will be taken out of your custody" is not stigmatizing?

Delusional, and incoherent as well.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

It's child neglect if you refuse to give your kids ritalin

Sigh. No, it's not.
Yeah, I Googled it and I see the rumor-mongering blogosphere references (and re-publishings thereof) to it, but you'll have to provide a lot more evidence - real hard evidence of substantiated occurrences - that such instances are in any respect common or mainstream.

With all due respect, you're doing a lot of shooting from the hip. Not the level of research and analysis that one would expect from the professional scientist you're training to be.

[champu 1]

chemist

***I could be mistaken, but I think all he or she said was that ADHD being over-diagnosed and over-medicated was more of a detriment to those who were put on drugs and shouldn't have been than it is to those who do have ADHD, get the drugs to help them, but then have to face a bit more of a stigma because their disease has been delegitimized.

and telling someone that "your child is sick and has to take mind altering capsules or they will be taken out of your custody" is not stigmatizing? I mean if the child is sick you have to be able to prove they are sick, which you cannot because there is no test to do so, that is what stigmatization is: diagnosing a child out of faith that it is true rather than any scientific evidence that proves it is true.

I thought for a minute I knew what your point was, and that I agreed with it, but now I have no idea what you're going on about.

Taking a step back, I tend to agree with post #29. Andy is correct that over-diagnosis will have a long-term chilling effect on the disorder and may prevent some people from seeking/obtaining treatment, and it may bring some negative attention to those who are correctly diagnosed and otherwise treated to their benefit. But those are still only the secondary effects. Meanwhile, people are being over-diagnosed and put on medication (which, as with all medication, has side-effects.) That should be at least as big a concern as long-term secondary effects. Post #31 comes across as very dismissive that this is even an issue.

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]Just because we have experience does not mean that experience is caused by physical disease.

[dmcoco84 4]

Quote

Ask anyone who has ever spent time with someone who HAS ADHD

[SkyDekker 1,119]

lawrocket

Money. Which comes down to politics. Which comes down not only to "it's not my fault" but also, "somebody else can take care of it." Which becomes "somebody else should take care of it." And ultimately becomes, "we should make someone else takae care of it."

I think there is another factor at play. I think we as a society want quick and easy solutions. A pill to treat a disease or disorder.

People want to walk into a clinic, and walk out with a cure 5 minutes later.

[billvon 2,379]

>Many doctors do not believe it is a disease,

That is no doubt true. (Heck, one guy in Amy's class didn't believe in evolution.) However most doctors do believe it is, and treatment of alcoholics is a huge topic in medical research today.

[billvon 2,379]

>A physical disease can be defined and observed

So can alcoholism, but that is apparently not a disease in your book.

Is clinical depression a disease? How about restless leg syndrome? Anxiety disorders?

[quade 3]

chemist

Agreed. Obesity is not a disease and neither is alcoholism.

What about peanut or cat allergies?

What if, and I believe there is, evidence to suggest certain people do have exceptional and genetic sensitivity to weight gain or the effects of alcohol?

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199508103330605
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100901103734.htm

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lawrocket 3]

SkyDekker

***Money. Which comes down to politics. Which comes down not only to "it's not my fault" but also, "somebody else can take care of it." Which becomes "somebody else should take care of it." And ultimately becomes, "we should make someone else takae care of it."

I think there is another factor at play. I think we as a society want quick and easy solutions. A pill to treat a disease or disorder.

People want to walk into a clinic, and walk out with a cure 5 minutes later.

Absolutely. I have no doubt about this. It's why I wrote a comment about the cost of healthcare today. Eat whatever, don't exercise, smoke, and the doctor will prescribe insulin, blood pressure and cholesterol medication and give you stuff for COPD.

And - because they are only paying copays, it gets worse and worse because people utilize it more and more. It's not their fault. Go ahead and eat that deep-fried double bacon cheeseburger and wash it down with chili cheese fries and a diet coke (because they are conscious of calories). There will be medication to take for it.

The healthy are those who will pay for the sick.

My wife is hotter than your wife.