First Cutaway - Help understanding please!

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey Everyone,

Had my first cutaway this morning. We're not sure what happened yet, but I can only see 2 things that would have caused it, but one is unlikely, but that's what I'm hoping to see if you guys can confirm how unlikely it is.

Gear: Vector 2 (no rsl or skyhook), Sabre 2 150 and PD143. Pro-packed by myself last night.

I deployed high because I was being filmed, dumped at 4k. Opening seemed pretty normal except that I started in a spin during the snivel. It wasn't twisting the lines/risers, but just turning. Everything opened and I had 2 endcell closures(used to this), so I did my flare and they went away. As I put the toggles back up it started spinning. I pulled the right toggle to my hip to stabilize the turn. I'm not sure if I did the right thing here or not but since I was at 3400' on a straight flying canopy(with the right toggle down), I tooko a bit of time to assess the scenario. If it was spinning and I couldn't get it stable, it would have been gone instantly. So when I looked up I had a square parachute for the most part. I saw one of the stabilizer lines wrapped around the lines on the first cell, causing the end cell to be folder under towards the second cell. I initially thought lineover, but it was not over top or collapsing any cells. The line was running from the outer cell, to the inner cell and back out again. It was not wrapped around the inner line and then following the line down to the risers. Now, I tried pumping the toggle, and both risers to no avail. Constantly watching my altitude the whole time. I got to 2700' and decided to cut it. So I cut it and landed safely with both handles and we found the main/freebag. I watched where they landed and was able to make it back to the DZ.

So, I realize I'm probably going to get some flak for not chopping it sooner, or doing something different, and I expect that, but my question to the masses is this:

If, on the previous landing the left toggle dropped through the lines. Could it cause this issue? I can't see this because the small metal loop for setting the brakes would have had a line wrapped around it, no? And if it did or didn't, when I walked up the lines would the lines not have been twisted? I remember packing it, didn't have anything looped around the locking loop, and walking the lines was clean. I propacked it and didn't see any twists there either.

The only other thing that I can imagine happening was a tension knot around one of the outer stabilizer lines. I remember seeing the slider stop on the stabilizer line right at the top of the lines right where the problem was. I though it was just hooked around the line but obviously not.

So, please comment on the above, please critique my thinking on decision altitude etc. I appreciate any advice, comments that I can get.

If you need clarification on something, please reply back and I'll do my best.

I'll also update the post once my rigger checks the chute and lets me know what's up. I really hope it's not something I caused in packing error.

Thanks!


EDIT: This was jump #31 for me, and I was on a borrowed rig that I put 2 jumps on yesterday and packed it both times for those as well.

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[chutem 0]

Clear thinking, altitude aware, cutaway at 2700'. All sounds good to me.
James

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey,

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the fact that it seems like I did everything right. One of my instructors told me that I shouldn't have fought with it. The only reason is I knew I had tonnes of time and 2500 is my decision altitude, but I didn't want to wait that long. If I was lower on deployment, or spinning out of my control, that reserve would have been out so quick, you have no idea. I had time to hold the right toggle with my right thumb so I didn't cutaway in a spin. I took the time to grab each handle, dropped the toggle and choppy choppy. Reserve came out with me nice and stable. I was happy I saved both handles as it was a borrowed rig. I realized pretty quickly that it's hard to control a parachute while holding both handles.

Either way, good experience so if it happens again in a more "rushed" scenario, I'll be comfortable knowing that I can do it!

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Actually, one more question. This one is completely subjective.

In the exact same scenario above, if you had a hook knife and could tell which line was tangled, would you cut away anyways or would you do some mid air rigging?

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[Genego 2]

Agree that you were thinking clearly, altitude aware, and cutaway at an appropriate atlitude, well about the minimums. The ONLY things that gives me minor pause was your statement that you had "tonnes of time" and you holding down the toggle whilst you cutaway.

We never have tonnes of time, and I don't want to hold onto anything connected with a canopy that I intend to cutaway, too much potential for a problem in my opinon. Otherwise good job, I assume someone has explained the beer rules?

blue skies

I live with fear and terror, but sometimes I leave her and go skydiving.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Beer was explained. Funny thing is I got my cypres for my rig back on friday and should have it this week, so I was done borrowing rigs after this jump, but now I have to buy booze for the reserve ride, plus pay for the repack, and the repack on my rig so I can use that. Pretty costly jump.

As far as tonnes of time goes, I was basically trying to say that I was fully aware of my altitude and it simply looked hooked around so I figured I'd play with it.

For the thumb hlding the toggle, I took a deep breath, dropped the toggle, and chopped, so I wasn't attached to it. I just figured if I can prevent possible problems on my reserve I would as it's my last resort.

Edit: That will be beer for a first reserve ride, and a case for my rigger (He prefers beer) for the packjob!

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[Foggy 0]

Quote

Actually, one more question. This one is completely subjective.

In the exact same scenario above, if you had a hook knife and could tell which line was tangled, would you cut away anyways or would you do some mid air rigging?

Cutaway and deploy reserve by decision altitude (as you did). you could spend the rest of your life doing mid-air rigging.

Foggy

[Reginald 0]

Quote

Actually, one more question. This one is completely subjective.

No it's not!

Quote

In the exact same scenario above, if you had a hook knife and could tell which line was tangled, would you cut away anyways or would you do some mid air rigging?

NO! I would execute my EP's!

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Well good to know I made the right choice. I actually thought at the time that I could land the parachute as I could get it flying straight, but knew I'd probably break both my legs at the very least. Training kicked back in and iI thought, "it ain't flying straight on it's own, it's gone". Took my breath and....

I'm honestly curious to know what happened. I can't see it being a brake line tangle due to what I posted above, but I can't really see it being anything else. Everyone at the DZ immediate suggested lineover, and when i first saw the mal, I thought the same. The only problem was that I had a square canopy for the most part, and no line were over the top.

I'm anxiously waiting to hear from my rigger...assuming the problem hasn't undone itself post-chop.

Thanks for the input


Video link removed by request due to high bandwidth demand on the hosting server - slotperfect

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[Cloudi 0]

I'm not a rigger nor near experienced enough to comment on what may or may not have been wrong with the main you had to chop.

I will say GREAT JOB on calmly assessing the situation, trying to correct it well above your decision altitude, then getting rid of it when you approached that altitude.

...and you kept both handles?!? You did GOOD.

Kim
Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

If anyone cares to critique my jump video, feel free. I know the first roll was pretty awkward looking, but I think all the rest was pretty good. The first front loop was subterminal and the last turn was intentionally quick.

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[krkeenan 0]

Sounds like good analysis of the lines and you made a decision plenty high. Good Job.

If you could have found the right line and cut it, that probably would work. But I'd consider that a pretty advanced move to try at your experience level. It would take you longer than you expect to get the right line and also have a high probability of cutting the wrong one. JC Colclasure could probably do it, but you shouldn't try. You took the right route buy resolving the problem with your cutaway handle.

Kevin

======================
Seasons don't fear the Reaper,
nor do the Wind, the Sun, or the Rain...

[feuergnom 22]

I'm just wondering why nobody gave you flak for jumping a 150 with31 jumps .....

as for your initial post:
it doesn't matter what caused the mal. you made the right decision in the right altitude. congrats on that. and as well

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

I've been jumping the 150 for a while now. And I've gotten flak from other posts as well. I weigh 115 lbs and i'm about 140 out the door. I have been solely working on my canopy progression so I can jump my own parachute. That's why I'm at 31 jumps and still no "A". Haven't even bothered with those requirements yet. (Only need 5 RW jumps though). I bought a Spectre 135 and should be able to jump it as soon as I come back from holidays. Trust me, I am going completely on what my instructors say, they see I'm doing very well under canopy and on landing. I have never once not stood a landing from day 1. Even the reserve yesterday I skidded on my feet, bumped my ass and stood up. Worst landing yet.


EDIT:
I added my jump to skydivingmovies.com, just do a search for backflips and it is the first one.

Full movie name is:
backflips-frontflips-and-spins-me-skydiving.wmv
2.9mb

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

No comments on my jump.....

Was it that bad?

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[BigSky 2]

Quote

Actually, one more question. This one is completely subjective.

In the exact same scenario above, if you had a hook knife and could tell which line was tangled, would you cut away anyways or would you do some mid air rigging?

I wouldn't want to have to pay to get my lines fixed when I still had a good canopy left to use. If this was happening on my reserve it would be a different story. Good job on your cutaway though.

“Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, th

[riggerrob 558]

Correct response to a line knot.

Next time, try stuffing your cutaway and ripcord handles down the front of your jumpsuit before you grab your reserve steering toggles.

As for trying to cut the offending main suspension line ... you could waste the rest of your life doing in-air-rigging.
Besides, most riggers find it quicker and easier to repack a reserve than the repair a cut suspension line.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Thanks,

Haha, I held those handles to the ground, they weren't going anywhere. I just found it hard when I had a tight fist around the handles and tried getting the steering loops. I simply adjusted my grip and held them there. Jumpsuit would be a good idea, but at the time, not thinking about that. I actually didn't even think to look what altitude my reserve opened at. I checked the reserve functionality, and looked for the main/frebag and watched them. First time I looked at my altitude was 1500', then I started my landing after watching the main/freeebag hit. I should have watched my altitude more, but I was able to roughly judge just from experience under canopy, and from my previous flying experience.

EDIT:
I wasn't concerned about my altitude becasue I jump at an airport and had nothing but fields to land in. My main was probably 0.5 km away and I was going to land with it but saw exactly where it landed and could still make it back to the DZ, so I did.

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[AFFI 0]

.93 WL on a 150 with 31 jumps, sounds ok to me.

Bravo on alt awareness and nothing to add that has not already been said.

Good job!

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

In the exact same scenario above, if you had a hook knife and could tell which line was tangled, would you cut away anyways or would you do some mid air rigging?

Not on main, and probably not on reserve in this case - as I have no clue whether cutting this line makes things better or worse (and I heard some stories when cutting a line it did make things worse).

My opinion is that if you know your emergency procedures, trained them well and comfortable with them (as you definitely are), there should be a real reason to use something else instead. And there were no such reason. In our experience level there is a lot of things to think about even under perfect canopy.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[teason 0]

Just my armchair diagnosis but it sounds like a line looped around a slider stop on the stabilizer.

...but that's acedemic, you did good.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

I agree and that's the only thing I can see happening, but it would have to be from a tension knot. I looked at the canopy today and it was perfectly fine, no burn marks or anything. I remember seeing the slider stop wrapped around the line and I thought the slider stop was just hooked around there and the tension was holding it there. In that case it probably would have came out with a few jerks of the riser, which didn't happen. Makes me wonder if it was a tension knot and I grabbed the riser, jerked it down then quickly released it to take tension off the line to release the knot. Guess I'll never know unless my rigger finds something on final inspection.

It also struck me odd that it wasn't a slider stop on the leading or trailing edge of the canopy, it was the one before the front of the leading edge and it was attached to the linedirectly to the right of it on the first cell in.

Ah well, it happened, all was ok and I got some valuable experience. I appreciate everyone's input.

Skies!!

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[Phillbo 11]

2700' is no place to be rigging. You did good with your EP's ...


Beer !

[Auram 0]

Sorry to hear about the cutaway but it sounds like you did the right thing!

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey,

Honestly I'm happy it happened. The experience was very good. Not that I wanted it to happen, but the fact that it did was good. Alot of people get comfortable, never practice their EP's, and when the time come, they may panick or do something out of sequence.

I know now that in the heat of the moment, even though I had a straight flying parachute, that altitude burns up quick. I can only imagine if I couldn't compensate the spin how much quicker things would have happened. I have now decided that 3500 is a nice safe altitude to dump. I have no need at this point to go any lower. LPus my canopy apparently snivels like a mofo. I've heard 7-1000 feet.... Anyone jump a Spectre 135 loaded around 1:1?

CHris

"When once you have tasted flight..."