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Bignugget

What if SLIDERS was real, and there were no guns in this version?

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So there was a show years back 'SLIDERS' and the premise was basically that you could open a portal and slide to a different dimension where the Earth and its inhabitants were there, but something was fundamentally different.

So...

We have slid into a new dimension, and instead of a 2nd amendment saying we have a right to bear arms....there is a 2nd amendment that says:

No one has the right to bear arms.

The country has developed without the gun culture embedded in 'our' America.

How does this episode of Sliders play out?

Is there a government?
Are we embroiled in a crazy civil war?
Do we have more/less violence?
How about entertainment, are there action movies?

(obviously just the start of some questions to get your minds moving, take it wherever you want)

Sit down, smoke a joint, have a beer, or in Gravitymaster's case, none of those and throw out your version of America that was founded with no right to bear arms, and a culture developed around no guns.

Ill go first:

I imagine that LEO and the Military are still well armed, as well as National Guard or the Slider equivalent.

Beyond that I imagine a less violence obsessed society developed over hundreds of years to mediate conflict without resorting to murder.

Government is based less on fear mongering and more on the ability to actually resolve social issues.

----

Feel free to tear into my version but I would personally rather just read about your version.:D

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Well, it would be rule of the strongest and meanest. Presuming clubs, spears and rocks; the biggest baddest mob would rule.
The little guys, and the women (women tend to be smaller and weaker) would be subservient, possibly even slaves.

One of the nice things about guns is that they allow the physically weak to have power over the strong.

And if you allow the cops and the military to have guns, then the bad guys will get them too. Look at Mexico. Strong gun control, but the drug gangs are armed with full auto machine guns and assault rifles, hand grenades and rocket launchers. All stolen from the military or bought from corrupt supply sergeants.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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That was one of my all time favorite shows!

Nice Thread! B|

Quote


Ill go first:

I imagine that LEO and the Military are still well armed, as well as National Guard or the Slider equivalent.

Beyond that I imagine a less violence obsessed society developed over hundreds of years to mediate conflict without resorting to murder.

Government is based less on fear mongering and more on the ability to actually resolve social issues.



Is this complete fantasy, post your sunshine and lolly pops world; or within the premise of the show, you actually want a logical discussion on every part of this?

Cause, ah... unless you make some major changes, MAJOR CHANGES, that's pretty sunshine and lolly pops.


Major question I would have to ask, for starters: When did the Amendment get passed?

Is that what you want it to read?

Or a version of what I wrote in response to Quade's statements in previous threads.

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It's an interesting exercise. The type of thing fiction writers go through every day.

Depending on a person's view of the world, their fictional interpretation of events probably makes it a hellish nightmare or a land of unicorns and rainbows. You can extrapolate based on other countries and their levels of success or failure at guns vs no guns, but other countries aren't the United States.

I'd like to think we'd be more like Japan; general violent crime down, mass murders down considerably, maybe even a polite society (that's the optimist in me), but it's impossible to say for sure.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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quade

It's an interesting exercise. The type of thing fiction writers go through every day.

Depending on a person's view of the world, their fictional interpretation of events probably makes it a hellish nightmare or a land of unicorns and rainbows. You can extrapolate based on other countries and their levels of success or failure at guns vs no guns, but other countries aren't the United States.

I'd like to think we'd be more like Japan; general violent crime down, mass murders down considerably, maybe even a polite society (that's the optimist in me), but it's impossible to say for sure.



You are missing the entire point of the show...

...and of M-Theory.

In order to have the same Constitution, but with the second amendment a complete 180, if it is written as the OP stated, there has to be a how and when of the change to get to the world you "see", or this is a dumb thread and Sliders has nothing to do with it.

Maybe a gang of schizophrenics and some bipolar patriots bombarded the Convention, not wanting a new Constitution... and all else remanded the same, but that's how all the other principles remained, but not firearms.

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Bignugget

...instead of a 2nd amendment saying we have a right to bear arms....there is a 2nd amendment that says: No one has the right to bear arms. The country has developed without the gun culture embedded in 'our' America. How does this episode of Sliders play out?

Ill go first:

I imagine that LEO and the Military are still well armed, as well as National Guard or the Slider equivalent. Beyond that I imagine a less violence obsessed society developed over hundreds of years to mediate conflict without resorting to murder.

Government is based less on fear mongering and more on the ability to actually resolve social issues. Feel free to tear into my version but I would personally rather just read about your version.:D



First off, I used to love that show, as cheesy as it often was.

Now, not having a right to bear arms doesn't automatically mean they are outlawed (nor, more importantly, that arms cease to exist.) It's hard to say if and when a law would have been passed to ban private ownership, by whom, and what the fallout would have been. If they were banned federally, especially during the 1800s, I doubt the nation would have survived it. That probably wouldn't have happened though. You'd probably see cities and states ban them during the 1910s/1920s and you'd see an even bigger rift between rural and urban areas than you see today.

I have no reason to believe any government would be more well behaved. It would still be about saying what you had to say to get more votes and doing what you could get away with for whatever reason. That might mean fear-mongering, that might mean pulling a Tiananmen Square. It's really hard to say, but I think it's a mistake to think that firearms have somehow poisoned human nature.

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Like I said... or like what I said to Quade; when he went silent on how he would rewrite the amendment.

Quote

Quade's edit...

A well regulated Militia, is not necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall be determined by a Federal panel of experts.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4464430#4464430

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dmcoco84

Like I said... or like what I said to Quade; when he went silent on how he would rewrite the amendment.

Quote

Quade's edit...
A well regulated Militia, is not necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall be determined by a Federal panel of experts.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4464430#4464430



I didn't write that. YOU did.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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quade

***Like I said... or like what I said to Quade; when he went silent on how he would rewrite the amendment.

Quote

Quade's edit...
A well regulated Militia, is not necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall be determined by a Federal panel of experts.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4464430#4464430



I didn't write that. YOU did.

Reading is Fundamental.

Or, Alzheimer's.

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Dude... I didn't say you wrote that.



When you put it in a quote box with the words, "Quade's edit" it needs to be made clear I did not actually write it. As is, regardless of your other words around it, because it's in a quote box all by itself it gives the wrong impression.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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quade

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Dude... I didn't say you wrote that.



When you put it in a quote box with the words, "Quade's edit" it needs to be made clear I did not actually write it. As is, regardless of your other words around it, because it's in a quote box all by itself it gives the wrong impression.



"Like I said... or like what I said to Quade"

It IS clear... and with the link, it's common sense.

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quade

Quote

Dude... I didn't say you wrote that.



When you put it in a quote box with the words, "Quade's edit" it needs to be made clear I did not actually write it. As is, regardless of your other words around it, because it's in a quote box all by itself it gives the wrong impression.



Since he was replying to me, and I know which thread he was alluding to, would it make you feel any better if I said that I know what you said in that thread, I know what you didn't say in that thread, I was not confused by the statement, and my opinion of you hasn't been altered in any way?

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perhaps, but since you are not the only person reading this thread, quade's point is valid. i, for one, didn't click on the link to the reply, and i suspect a lot of others who don't really care that much did either. so for me, and those as lazy or apathetic as me, the clarification was in order.

now to the point of the thread, i too loved the show. and it was very cheesy at times. but more to the point, there would have had to be a fundamental shift in thinking well before the constitution was drafted, because as i understand, this was one of the amendments which was not very much debated. for the rest of them to have remained as is would be highly unusual. closer to reality would have been to leave out the bill of rights altogether. this would be closer to the way it would have been, of course this is just an opinion. as for the results of 250+ years like that, that is thinking material. thank you for the exercise to the brain.
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Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

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Nice!

All the replies are pretty in line with my goal, get the brain turning.


Airtwardo just quoted me in another thread were I said

"I don't think that means we need 280 million guns"

he replied 'opinions vary'

Aptly said.

That's why I think an episode like this would have been such an entertaining one, and a repeatable one.

Does the United States develop more or less peacefully without 280 million guns proliferating?

Does the United States still stand as the biggest arms dealer in the world, do we still go invade other countries to impose our will simply because we have the technology/means/culture to allow for it?

I thought the point about WHEN the culture shift came along was interesting.

That could swing the outcome pretty wildly I think.

Since the founding fathers were educated and grown in Europe where using guns as a way to get your will was an old accepted practice....maybe it was ALREADY ingrained in our society before we even HAD one....That is certainly some food for thought.

Would we be a society of pointy stick murderers (for you Kennedy)? Would we still have a bustling 1st world economy with many of the worlds biggest corporations calling the USA home? Or would they deem USA too sketchy to work out of?

I loved that show, I was bummed when it got cancelled. I was just a kid when it was on. I think sci fi in general is neat. Using extraordinary stories to try and explore very ordinary social issues.

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So would this be before the American Revolution?

You know the part where...and I quote from wikipedia...

'The American Revolution was a political upheaval during the last half of the 18th century in which thirteen colonies in North America joined together to break from the British Empire, combining to become the United States of America. They first rejected the authority of the Parliament of Great Britain to govern them from overseas without representation, and then expelled all royal officials. By 1775 each colony had established a Provincial Congress or an equivalent governmental institution to govern itself, but still recognized the British Crown and their inclusion in the empire. The British responded by sending combat troops to re-establish royalist control. Through the Second Continental Congress, the Americans then managed the armed conflict in response to the British known as the American Revolutionary War (also: American War of Independence, 1775–83).


This country was founded by men and women who STOOD UP FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES.

You should become familiar with a few history books because it appears you were sleeping in those classes.

Also you should know history has a the ability to repeat itself.

but you go out on the battlefield with cheetos and joints and when the enemy splits your face in two with a well placed .50 round Ill go to your dead body and grab all your joints and add them to my own stash and then fire back at the enemy. When the day is over and we bury you I'll smoke some of my weed...well cause...its probably vastly better. And I'll say a prayer for you.

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