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Darius11

Why is it acknowledging scientific facts, and Natural differences makes you racist, or sexist?

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My point is what if scientist find out that African Americans do have stronger bones or muscles? If you find out that yes men are wired differently then woman and do view woman as sex objects? What if woman do become more easily irritable a week every month? What if woman do have better memory and can multi task better then men, and etc etc etc and all those things are no one fault it’s the way you are born. It is nature.

Is acknowledging those facts in society and adjusting to it racism, sexism? Or is it just living in reality?

I find it very odd how some things we acknowledge without any issue, For example woman have better memory, and their brains can multi task better. No one gets mad at that, but if you say a mans mind is better suited for math you’re an ass hole, and everyone mention the ONE female math PhD they read about in some article.

My point is not to say I know what’s what but just that there is something wrong with us as a society if we cannot acknowledge truths facts about our nature just because it hurts people’s feelings.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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Darius11

My point is what if scientist find out that African Americans do have stronger bones or muscles? If you find out that yes men are wired differently then woman and do view woman as sex objects? What if woman do become more easily irritable a week every month? What if woman do have better memory and can multi task better then men, and etc etc etc and all those things are no one fault it’s the way you are born. It is nature.

Is acknowledging those facts in society and adjusting to it racism, sexism? Or is it just living in reality?

I find it very odd how some things we acknowledge without any issue, For example woman have better memory, and their brains can multi task better. No one gets mad at that, but if you say a mans mind is better suited for math you’re an ass hole, and everyone mention the ONE female math PhD they read about in some article.

My point is not to say I know what’s what but just that there is something wrong with us as a society if we cannot acknowledge truths facts about our nature just because it hurts people’s feelings.



It's the good old double standard.

If it is accepted that Gays are born that way, then you call attention to it, you are a homophobe or a bigot.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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IMO, racism is 50% of liberal argument strategy. Legislature, executive order, illegal search and seizure are based on the mistaken belief that all social ills are a crisis and crisis intervention is necessary.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Darius11

My point is what if scientist find out that African Americans do have stronger bones or muscles? If you find out that yes men are wired differently then woman and do view woman as sex objects? What if woman do become more easily irritable a week every month? What if woman do have better memory and can multi task better then men, and etc etc etc and all those things are no one fault it’s the way you are born. It is nature.

Is acknowledging those facts in society and adjusting to it racism, sexism? Or is it just living in reality?

I find it very odd how some things we acknowledge without any issue, For example woman have better memory, and their brains can multi task better. No one gets mad at that, but if you say a mans mind is better suited for math you’re an ass hole, and everyone mention the ONE female math PhD they read about in some article.

My point is not to say I know what’s what but just that there is something wrong with us as a society if we cannot acknowledge truths facts about our nature just because it hurts people’s feelings.


Racism, sexism, or any other ism that pertains to bigotry, is judging a person by logically irrelevant criteria. If you say Africans generally have dark skin... that is a statement. A generalization, but just a statement. If you say Africans are all stupid, then you are being racist. One is a statement based on factual observation, the other is a derogatory statement relating intelligence to race.
Did this come up recently for you? Did you make a factual statement, and be accused of racism?
Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

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One reason is because many people have a hard (read: impossible) time understanding there is a world of difference between equal (as in worth and value) and identical (as in the same).

For example: the roles of mother and father. Both are equally important to the well-being of a child, but they are not interchangeable/identical.
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Darius11

My point is what if scientist find out that African Americans do have stronger bones or muscles? If you find out that yes men are wired differently then woman and do view woman as sex objects? What if woman do become more easily irritable a week every month? What if woman do have better memory and can multi task better then men, and etc etc etc and all those things are no one fault it’s the way you are born. It is nature.

Is acknowledging those facts in society and adjusting to it racism, sexism? Or is it just living in reality?

I find it very odd how some things we acknowledge without any issue, For example woman have better memory, and their brains can multi task better. No one gets mad at that, but if you say a mans mind is better suited for math you’re an ass hole, and everyone mention the ONE female math PhD they read about in some article.

My point is not to say I know what’s what but just that there is something wrong with us as a society if we cannot acknowledge truths facts about our nature just because it hurts people’s feelings.



When I was an undergrad a long, long time ago, someone in the class brought up something about women being able to fight just as well as men and that gender differences weren't real. I pointed up, much to all the femi-nazi's dismay, I'm sure, that that was patently not true, and that males generally hit much harder than their female counter parts in various sporting events. The girl at the time, then mentioned something about her having a black belt in whatever, at which point I conceded (even praised) that she was probably a skilled fighter, but that didn't change the fact that the biggest, most skilled and ripped male would hit a hell of a lot harder than whoever the top female fighter was. To my surprise, she didn't argue any further, but she wanted to.

Some people just can't accept the fact that there are differences, and automatically assume that if differences exist, one of the two (or more) groups has to be "bad" or "inferior."
You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

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Another thing to consider: When one speaks of 'race', one is referring to a specific set of genetic characteristics. It is entirely possible, however, for a Nigerian man to have more in common, genetically, with a Scandinavian woman, than with his male neighbour. Race does not discuss myriad other genetic traits, of which a very very short list might include height, propensity to obesity, eye shape, eyebrow thickness, length and thickness of digits... the list is as endless as are the variations amongst humans. That is why most anthropologists who are worth their salt no longer talk about race. Usually they will refer to ethnicity, which is to say, cultural heritage.
Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

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The girl at the time, then mentioned something about her having a black belt in whatever, at which point I conceded (even praised) that she was probably a skilled fighter, but that didn't change the fact that the biggest, most skilled and ripped male would hit a hell of a lot harder than whoever the top female fighter was. To my surprise, she didn't argue any further, but she wanted to.


Most women who train seriously at martial arts are strong enough. Yes, a big burly dude can hit pretty damn hard, especially if he knows HOW to hit. But there is a threshold, and well trained women are strong enough to meet that threshold... the amount of force needed to injure, incapacitate, or knock someone out. Other important factors are speed, skill, and experience. I know personally a couple women who train quite hard... one is a competitive boxer, the other has about 8 years of Systema under her belt. They both have speed, skill, and experience. They also train with and against men much bigger than themselves. Believe me when I say you don't want either of them pissed at you. They can and WILL hurt you... a lot.
Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

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NorrinRadd

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The girl at the time, then mentioned something about her having a black belt in whatever, at which point I conceded (even praised) that she was probably a skilled fighter, but that didn't change the fact that the biggest, most skilled and ripped male would hit a hell of a lot harder than whoever the top female fighter was. To my surprise, she didn't argue any further, but she wanted to.


Most women who train seriously at martial arts are strong enough. Yes, a big burly dude can hit pretty damn hard, especially if he knows HOW to hit. But there is a threshold, and well trained women are strong enough to meet that threshold... the amount of force needed to injure, incapacitate, or knock someone out. Other important factors are speed, skill, and experience. I know personally a couple women who train quite hard... one is a competitive boxer, the other has about 8 years of Systema under her belt. They both have speed, skill, and experience. They also train with and against men much bigger than themselves. Believe me when I say you don't want either of them pissed at you. They can and WILL hurt you... a lot.



What you describe is the exception, not the rule.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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NorrinRadd

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The girl at the time, then mentioned something about her having a black belt in whatever, at which point I conceded (even praised) that she was probably a skilled fighter, but that didn't change the fact that the biggest, most skilled and ripped male would hit a hell of a lot harder than whoever the top female fighter was. To my surprise, she didn't argue any further, but she wanted to.


Most women who train seriously at martial arts are strong enough. Yes, a big burly dude can hit pretty damn hard, especially if he knows HOW to hit. But there is a threshold, and well trained women are strong enough to meet that threshold... the amount of force needed to injure, incapacitate, or knock someone out. Other important factors are speed, skill, and experience. I know personally a couple women who train quite hard... one is a competitive boxer, the other has about 8 years of Systema under her belt. They both have speed, skill, and experience. They also train with and against men much bigger than themselves. Believe me when I say you don't want either of them pissed at you. They can and WILL hurt you... a lot.



I'm not denying that at all. There are plenty of badass females out there. That doesn't change the fact that genetics and anatomy play in the male's favor.

Take a look at a less injury-provoking sport: tennis. There's a reason why females and males compete separately. Guys can simply drill the ball a hell of a lot harder than the gals.
You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

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If it is accepted that Gays are born that way, then you call attention to it, you are a homophobe or a bigot.



That makes no sense. Unless by "call attention to it," you mean yelling "faggots die!!!" every time you see someone who looks gay. Technically, you're correct. Gay people are born and then eventually die, but most people probably don't take that statement to be one regarding biological inevitabilty.

- Dan G

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I guess what I am trying to say is that while there are certainly physiological differences... some more evident than others... sometimes people point at certain differences to indicate their importance, when in fact they are not as applicable as they might think.
For example... if I, a male, were to play tennis with Serena Williams, a female, I would get my ass handed to me. I am probably stronger than her. I know I am above average as a male in the strength department. But she would still deliver a serve I could never hope to match. That is because, while all other things being equal, my strength might give me an advantage, there are very few times all other things are equal, and she has years of experience, skill and practice backing her up.
So, yes... men are on average stronger than women. But that strength is only one facet in most comparisons. Unless you are trying to open jars. And it is just as important to consider all other facets of the comparison.
Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

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IMO, racism is 50% of liberal argument strategy.



As opposed to conservative argument strategy, which is to accuse people of throwing the race card whenever you are losing an argument. Or, as in this case, pre-emptively accusing people of throwing the race card before they even open their mouths.

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Legislature, executive order, illegal search and seizure are based on the mistaken belief that all social ills are a crisis and crisis intervention is necessary.



A. Both sides do that. B. What does that have to race and/or gender?

- Dan G

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I see a few things wrong asserting these kinds of claims for general public acceptance.

Firstly, I doubt the accuracy of most such studies, in so far as drawing conclusive results based on race or gender alone;
What sampling was used ? Was a reliably accurate testing method used in each 'study' ? How many of these traits are nature vs. nurture ?
Africans within Africa are often regarded as good middle and long distance runners, and yet African-Americans seem to have stronger talents in track sprinting.
It could be theorised that the comparative scarcity of mechanised transport within large parts of Africa might have something to do with that trend, as opposed to pure genetics.
Individuals within a race or gender group are extremely diverse and these kinds of studies tend to paint with a very broad brush.

More importantly perhaps is;
Would people really benefit by 'knowing', as a publicly accepted fact, that they have an inherent race or gender disadvantage ?
As an example;
You might be aware that close to 50% of all MENSA test candidates score less than 100 on the tests (since the '100' score is the calculated average.). However, the testing policy advises not to reveal low scores to candidates. They are instead just told that they 'did well'. It serves no benefit to a person's self-esteem to be told that they are 'officially' less intelligent than the average of all tested candidates.
This is largely why pretty much every person ever tested will claim to have a 100+ IQ, it's the result that was given to them. It's only a true result for about half of all tested candidates but it would be pointlessly damaging to advise them differently.

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NorrinRadd

Racism, sexism, or any other ism that pertains to bigotry, is judging a person by logically irrelevant criteria. If you say Africans generally have dark skin... that is a statement. A generalization, but just a statement. If you say Africans are all stupid, then you are being racist. One is a statement based on factual observation, the other is a derogatory statement relating intelligence to race.



Notwithstanding statements that are simply incorrect, many of the more controversial examples of bigotry and (something many lament being overlooked) errant cries thereof boil down to the familiar problem of mistaking correlation for causation. There are cultural and socioeconomic influences that have been different from region to region, ethnicity to ethnicity, and sex to sex. You can't demand that people pretend that is not the case.

One way to go wrong is by attributing the results of those past influences directly to the ethnicity or sex in question. Another way to go wrong is to attribute the results to the ongoing bigotry of another ethnicity or sex. Doing either defines any issue you're trying to solve as an inherent problem with a group of people, and that sets yourself up for failure.

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Did this come up recently for you? Did you make a factual statement, and be accused of racism?



I have experienced racism often but my point is not about racism but facts that are proven by science that can be viewed as racism/sexism.

For example if I say woman are weak when it comes to physical strength and they will never be as strong as a man. You often get the one picture or the very few examples of woman who look like dudes to say your just being sexist.
Or for Men are hornyness or being a "dog" (however you want to put it), the reality is if you’re a man, have your balls, and are healthy its natural it’s the way you’re supposed to be like. So instead of trying go against your nature I would think making adjustments for it in culture and are view would work better.
Woman when they have PMS they are moody, now I look at it as natural so I never get mad or take it top hearth if my girl is upset or pissed. I honestly feel bad for her and know I would even be in a worst mood if I had to go through the same shit. But the needs of men are not viewed with the same understanding to me that’s insane.
Or Jimmy Snyder (Greek)

Here is what he said “The black is a better athlete to begin with because he's been bred to be that way, because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back, and they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs and he's bred to be the better athlete because this goes back all the way to the Civil War when during the slave trade … the slave owner would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have a big black kid”

Now we know that to be factual and we know you can breed traits in to anything that reproduces. So in a logical world they would research it and report the findings. In an irrational world you get the guy fired and you tar and feather him.

This got really long but those are the thing I am talking about.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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>My point is what if scientist find out that African Americans do have stronger bones or muscles?

Then they have stronger muscles. They already have different drug tolerances; that's why the heart drug BiDil is prescribed only to African-Americans.

>What if woman do become more easily irritable a week every month?

All your questions are the key. What do you do with that knowledge? If your conclusions are:

-so we should research PMS cures for women
-so we should see if different drugs would be more effective for treating high blood pressure in blacks
-so we should design cockpits taking into account the visual response of both men and women

then great.

However if your response is:

-so women shouldn't be doctors or pilots
-so blacks can't be responsible for their own health
-so gays can't have families

then you are in racism/sexism/homophobe territory.

Science is science, and people are different. Most people can use that information to better understand the world. Bigots use it to force their views on others, and to take rights away from the groups they dislike.

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I know personally a couple women who train quite hard... one is a competitive boxer, the other has about 8 years of Systema under her belt. They both have speed, skill, and experience. They also train with and against men much bigger than themselves. Believe me when I say you don't want either of them pissed at you. They can and WILL hurt you... a lot.




That’s what I am talking about right there. You know one WHO CARES it still much more accurate to say woman are weaker than men then to use your one example that you claim is as strong. I bet you put the best the fucking best woman trained 20 years whatever against a guy with the same training and he will win every time not once not 9 out of 10 EVERYTIME, Yet you still felt the need to give that example.

That’s my point WHY??? His statement that men hit harder is true 99.9999999999999% of the time yet you felt you had to say oh I know this one girl!!!!!

That's what I don’t get, and I am being generous. Men simply do not need as much training to have more strength more stamina more force. We have it simply because we have balls.

Its the reality of life.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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DanG

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If it is accepted that Gays are born that way, then you call attention to it, you are a homophobe or a bigot.



That makes no sense. Unless by "call attention to it," you mean yelling "faggots die!!!" every time you see someone who looks gay. Technically, you're correct. Gay people are born and then eventually die, but most people probably don't take that statement to be one regarding biological inevitabilty.



How very open minded of you.

Has anyone ever called you an extremist?

You would think as high as the horse you are on, you MIGHT, just MIGHT, be able to come up with a less hateful idea.

But I doubt it?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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if I, a male, were to play tennis with Serena Williams, a female



The difference is she is the top athlete and it would take some one much lower on the ranks in men’s tennis to beat her then the top. That’s the advantage he has just for being a he.

Now we also know that men and woman have different wiring in their heads, they have different brains. That means Woman are better at some things and worst at something when it comes to mental capability same for men. Now try to talk about that at the next dinner and see how far that gets you :)

My point or beef is why can’t we talk about these things which are true?
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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so women shouldn't be doctors or pilots
-so blacks can't be responsible for their own health
-so gays can't have families



Gays can’t have families of their own. That’s facts at least they will need a donor ofr something. Can they call it a family yes so can adopted kids. I know you can adopt and that’s your kid but in reality and in genetic terms it’s not.

For woman: would it be wrong to say woman should not fly a high stress flight when they going trough PMS?

That seems logical, we know it’s just nature but at the same time it is an increased risk, How much of a risk??
I don't know but I would like to so I could make an INFORMED decision. Not one based on false facts just so people can like me or not have there feelings hurt.

I think in a good world everyone should be equal, however I think saying everyone is the same is just stupid.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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Darius11

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so women shouldn't be doctors or pilots
-so blacks can't be responsible for their own health
-so gays can't have families



Gays can’t have families of their own. That’s facts at least they will need a donor ofr something. Can they call it a family yes so can adopted kids. I know you can adopt and that’s your kid but in reality and in genetic terms it’s not.

For woman: would it be wrong to say woman should not fly a high stress flight when they going trough PMS?


I think it's excellent that you show where the line is here and how to cross it... :P

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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