IL legislature overrides governor to pass CCW

[ryoder 1,382]

http://news.yahoo.com/illinois-house-votes-allow-carrying-concealed-guns-182937243.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

The governor proposed "Small Changes."

Yeah, right. Among other things, no carry where any alcohol is served (not just "not in bars") and only allowing one spare magazine.

Finally.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Kennedy 0]

Wow. I knew the day would come, but I never thought they'd pass shall issue. Good for them!

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[lawrocket 3]

Good for them? It's not like they had a choice. There was a federal court order giving them 180 days to pass a bill authorixing concealed carry. If they didn't, then concealed carry would be the law of the land without any restrictions.

Congratulating Illinois for this is like congratulating the President and Congress for their brave actions with DOMA and DADT. No, the Courts took action. The legislatures and executives just reacted to what was inevitable.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

lawrocket

Good for them? It's not like they had a choice. There was a federal court order giving them 180 days to pass a bill authorixing concealed carry. If they didn't, then concealed carry would be the law of the land without any restrictions.

Congratulating Illinois for this is like congratulating the President and Congress for their brave actions with DOMA and DADT. No, the Courts took action. The legislatures and executives just reacted to what was inevitable.

And even with that court order, Illinois had to go back to the court for extensions (twice - one granted, the other denied).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Kennedy 0]

Good for the pro gun politicians. They knew if they held their ground, the rest would have to knuckle under. If they refuse to play ball, then unrestricted carry would be law. They had to agree to shall issue. I was hopeful, but still can't believe it finally happened.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[rushmc 18]

Kennedy

Good for the pro gun politicians. They knew if they held their ground, the rest would have to knuckle under. If they refuse to play ball, then unrestricted carry would be law. They had to agree to shall issue. I was hopeful, but still can't believe it finally happened.

I have not seen the bill
Does IL law recognize other states permits?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[davjohns 1]

Interesting. The article says citizens must pass a background check and take a 16 hour class to qualify. The governor described this as a serious threat to public safety.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[rushmc 18]

davjohns

Interesting. The article says citizens must pass a background check and take a 16 hour class to qualify. The governor described this as a serious threat to public safety.

Gun contol has never been and will never be about guns and gun violence or public safety

It is about disarming a public and control/power

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[davjohns 1]

Heartily agree.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[rehmwa 2]

davjohns

Interesting. The article says citizens must pass a background check and take a 16 hour class to qualify. The governor described this as a serious threat to public safety.

oh....16 hours is magical

certainly an experienced owner and user with a history of safe use will need 16 hours of training just like someone buying and shooting for the first time

what a crock

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

rehmwa

***Interesting. The article says citizens must pass a background check and take a 16 hour class to qualify. The governor described this as a serious threat to public safety.

oh....16 hours is magical

certainly an experienced owner and user with a history of safe use will need 16 hours of training just like someone buying and shooting for the first time

what a crock

Well, the vast majority of the classes are about rules and regulations, when to shoot, when not to shoot. What to and not to say in the event of a DGU. Where you can and cannot be armed.

Reading through the Zimmerman shooting threads, I see a lot of people who really don't understand what the laws on self defense actually say or what kind of behavior has been found to not be self defense in a court of law.

Actual gun handling skills are secondary to that.
Teaching a newcomer how to safely handle a gun can be properly done fairly quickly.

Developing safe habits takes a while, but that's not something that can be taught.

And shooting well enough to qualify isn't that big of a deal.
Shooting well (like developing safe handling habits) is far more a "practice" thing than a "teaching" thing.

I can teach the fundamentals of safe gun handling and basic pistol marksmanship in a class that is well under 16 hours.
But the shooter will have to practice a lot more than that to actually become proficient.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[champu 1]

rushmc

Gun contol has never been and will never be about guns and gun violence or public safety

Indeed, it's why we end up with crap like this snaking its way through the California legislature. http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140SB396

Quote

Existing law prohibits the sale, gift, and loan of a large-capacity magazine. Existing law defines “large-capacity magazine” to mean any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but provides that the definition may not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

This bill would include within that definition of large-capacity magazine a feeding device that had a capacity of more than 10 rounds but has been permanently modified to hold no more than 10 rounds of ammunition, and would exclude from that definition a magazine that is only of sufficient length to hold no more than 10 rounds of ammunition.

This bill, commencing July 1, 2014, would make it an offense for any person to possess any large-capacity magazine, regardless of the date the magazine was acquired, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year. The bill would authorize various methods by which a person in lawful possession of a large-capacity magazine may dispose of the magazine prior to the July 1, 2014, prohibition on possession.

(3) Existing law creates various exceptions to that crime, which include, but are not limited to, the sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine to or by the holder of a special weapons permit for use as a prop for a motion picture

So you'd not be allowed to have anything that even looked like it held more than 10 rounds, regardless of whether it does or even could. Except, of course, if you wanted to go on making shoot-em-ups. This bill is so misguided it's maddening.

There're over a dozen bills that have passed one house and will be going to the other in the next couple months. I've written everyone I can and I got "thanks for your input" automated replies but so far they've voted "aye" for everything.

Al Muratsuchi actually has the balls to send me spam now asking me to sign petitions for things he supports.

[jgoose71 0]

wolfriverjoe

Reading through the Zimmerman shooting threads, I see a lot of people who really don't understand what the laws on self defense actually say or what kind of behavior has been found to not be self defense in a court of law.

I have to agree with you here. If the class is dedicated to state and federal regulations on how to handle a gun without getting thrown in jail, 16 hours might not be enough....

Marksmanship and safety? PPSSHHH... Who gives a fuck...

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[livendive 8]

Nice. I guess I'll move Chicago from the "no" list to the "maybe" list in my job search.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[normiss 622]

As if Chicago will allow this...

[Kennedy 0]

Chicago has no input. How are they going to stop it?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[normiss 622]

No gun stores in city limits.
Requiring training that cannot be had locally.
More permit requirements.

Look at their previous responses to gun legislation.

[Kennedy 0]

Yeah, you'll have to leave the city to get a gun, but that's common in too many cities. Read the bill before you go giving Chicago authority it doesn't have.

Also, while I'm not certain, I believe the sixteen hours of training does not involve firing any rounds. If that's the case, then there's not reason you can't host the training in any building in Chicago, including the rentable meeting room in the city admin bldg.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

The city government in Chicago has been doing everything it can to prevent it's citizens from obtaining pistols ever since the Supreme Court decision.
The NRA has taken them to court several times, and won every time.
And Chicago keeps throwing up new restrictions.

I believe what Normiss is referring to is that to get a pistol ownership permit (not a carry permit), the city requires a minimum of training, including a certain amount of live fire...
But prohibits firing ranges inside city limits.

It's not that you have to leave the city to get a gun. It's that you are unable to meet the "reasonable restrictions" the city places on pistol ownership.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Kennedy 0]

Ah yes, their beloved FOID. I forgot that the card isn't held to state standards but subject to local tinkering, and yes, like you said, in Chicago's case, a near ban.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[rehmwa 2]

wolfriverjoe

******Interesting. The article says citizens must pass a background check and take a 16 hour class to qualify. The governor described this as a serious threat to public safety.

oh....16 hours is magical

certainly an experienced owner and user with a history of safe use will need 16 hours of training just like someone buying and shooting for the first time

what a crock

Well, the vast majority of the classes are about rules and regulations, when to shoot, when not to shoot. What to and not to say in the event of a DGU. Where you can and cannot be armed.

Reading through the Zimmerman shooting threads, I see a lot of people who really don't understand what the laws on self defense actually say or what kind of behavior has been found to not be self defense in a court of law.

Actual gun handling skills are secondary to that.
Teaching a newcomer how to safely handle a gun can be properly done fairly quickly.

Developing safe habits takes a while, but that's not something that can be taught.

And shooting well enough to qualify isn't that big of a deal.
Shooting well (like developing safe handling habits) is far more a "practice" thing than a "teaching" thing.

I can teach the fundamentals of safe gun handling and basic pistol marksmanship in a class that is well under 16 hours.
But the shooter will have to practice a lot more than that to actually become proficient.

I think you are backing up my point - 'requiring' a lengthy course makes it time consuming and expensive. It's an artificial barrier designed to discourage. Competency and knowledge can be validated easily and quickly for those that have it already.

Of course, those who will be authorized to teach that 16 hour course are happy as they now have government backing that directly gets them business they can charge all they want to provide.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[turtlespeed 212]

rehmwa

*********Interesting. The article says citizens must pass a background check and take a 16 hour class to qualify. The governor described this as a serious threat to public safety.

oh....16 hours is magical

certainly an experienced owner and user with a history of safe use will need 16 hours of training just like someone buying and shooting for the first time

what a crock

Well, the vast majority of the classes are about rules and regulations, when to shoot, when not to shoot. What to and not to say in the event of a DGU. Where you can and cannot be armed.

Reading through the Zimmerman shooting threads, I see a lot of people who really don't understand what the laws on self defense actually say or what kind of behavior has been found to not be self defense in a court of law.

Actual gun handling skills are secondary to that.
Teaching a newcomer how to safely handle a gun can be properly done fairly quickly.

Developing safe habits takes a while, but that's not something that can be taught.

And shooting well enough to qualify isn't that big of a deal.
Shooting well (like developing safe handling habits) is far more a "practice" thing than a "teaching" thing.

I can teach the fundamentals of safe gun handling and basic pistol marksmanship in a class that is well under 16 hours.
But the shooter will have to practice a lot more than that to actually become proficient.

I think you are backing up my point - 'requiring' a lengthy course makes it time consuming and expensive. It's an artificial barrier designed to discourage. Competency and knowledge can be validated easily and quickly for those that have it already.

Of course, those who will be authorized to teach that 16 hour course are happy as they now have government backing that directly gets them business they can charge all they want to provide.

Seems Similar to what Texas just passed on abortion clinics.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

rehmwa

I think you are backing up my point - 'requiring' a lengthy course makes it time consuming and expensive. It's an artificial barrier designed to discourage. Competency and knowledge can be validated easily and quickly for those that have it already.

Of course, those who will be authorized to teach that 16 hour course are happy as they now have government backing that directly gets them business they can charge all they want to provide.

16 hours is a long class. For Wisconsin and Minnesota, the class runs 4-6. And it covers everything it needs to.
I don't know what the requirements for the IL permit classes are, but I can see that it would be a barrier, both from a financial standpoint and an opportunity standpoint (not only do you have to pay for it, you have to find time to attend it).

Although, I know a couple instructors that will offer a "sliding scale" for the course fee for people who can't afford the class fee (normal fee is around $125).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[dannydan 0]

Illinois sucks.... good place to make money, esp@champaign-urbana for two majors reasons! but the politics is so non liberty that it's past scary... FOID is a farce! and this ccw is too. chi town and SOTH Madigan run this shit and now Rombo. We're sooooo screwed here... can't wait to leave!