Mental health gun law

[RonD1120 58]

DFWAJG

In reality, people are released from the hospital within 72 hours because some jerk who runs the HMOs denies the stay any further no matter what the situation.

When I worked in the field in FL, the 72 hour limit was a factor of law. If the patient volunteered for treatment he/she would stay until the psychiatrist approved discharge. At that time, 1994-2000, the HMO's, private insurance and Medicare provided a finite number of days treatment per calendar year. Medicare was the highest with 60 days per year. Medicaid was usually never more than a psych eval and a prescription.

The job of the MH facility is to extract the maximum amount of money through maximum days of treatment possible from the payor. This was usually two weeks.

The job of the utilization review coordinator was to communicate the need for ongoing treatment was necessary until the maximum days were paid. At that time the psychiatrist would declare the patient stable and issue discharge orders. This practice led to the industry standard phrase, "the two week cure."

Psychiatric medicine is the prescription of psychotropic medications. It is not therapy. Very few MH patients receive ongoing therapy at the rate of $150 +/hour. No third party payor funds that length of stay. It is usually about three sessions.

Once a patient commits to psychiatric treatment, the medications prescribed will ensure remaining in treatment forever. It takes a strong will to break free. And, with that kind of will power the patient could probably become stable on their own without medications.

Homework question, what do you think is the most frequently used system to sound mental health apart from psychiatry?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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...what do you think is the most frequently used system to sound mental health apart from psychiatry?

Scientology.

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The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[turtlespeed 212]

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...what do you think is the most frequently used system to sound mental health apart from psychiatry?

Scientology.

That or speakers corner

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[RonD1120 58]

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...what do you think is the most frequently used system to sound mental health apart from psychiatry?

Scientology.

Good answer, I was thinking in more general terms i.e., spirituality. Scientology is right up there with Christianity.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[dmcoco84 4]

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Scientology is right up there with Christianity.

That's BS... and I'm not even a Christian; nor do I think Jesus even existed, and its still BS.

[normiss 620]

Seconded.

Scientology beliefs would lead me to believe the person has a mental disorder.

[dmcoco84 4]

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***I would like to know exactly which prescriptions will be on this list of disqualifying drugs will get your weapons taken from you.

That's a fair question. I doubt drugs being used to treat are the only factors involved, but if there is a list of ones that would be considered prima facie evidence of disqualification to own, then it would be a good idea to publish it along with the statute.

That's a convenient answer...

Yielding the same results as trying to get you to define mental illness and disqualifications based on it.

[RonD1120 58]

dmcoco84

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Scientology is right up there with Christianity.

That's BS... and I'm not even a Christian; nor do I think Jesus even existed, and its still BS.

What is your experience in the mental health/substance use disorder field?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

normiss

Seconded.

Scientology beliefs would lead me to believe the person has a mental disorder.

Keep in mind, as far as the professional field is concerned, social productivity is the goal. All that is required is that the patient/client have a viable plan to accomplish the activities of daily living, known as ADL's.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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RonD1120

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...what do you think is the most frequently used system to sound mental health apart from psychiatry?

Scientology.

Good answer, I was thinking in more general terms i.e., spirituality. Scientology is right up there with Christianity.

Possibly more so in it is the entire stated reason to exist in the first place . . . well, that and to make money selling books, lectures, tapes, DVDs and giving money to the people so they can confess their "sins."

Pretty sure it's still a scam made up by a science fiction writer.

So yeah . . . "right up there with Christianity."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Southern_Man 0]

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***I would like to know exactly which prescriptions will be on this list of disqualifying drugs will get your weapons taken from you.

That's a fair question. I doubt drugs being used to treat are the only factors involved, but if there is a list of ones that would be considered prima facie evidence of disqualification to own, then it would be a good idea to publish it along with the statute.

Yes, because what we want is gun owners or potential gun owners avoiding treatments and medications which could help them.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

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Southern_Man

******I would like to know exactly which prescriptions will be on this list of disqualifying drugs will get your weapons taken from you.

That's a fair question. I doubt drugs being used to treat are the only factors involved, but if there is a list of ones that would be considered prima facie evidence of disqualification to own, then it would be a good idea to publish it along with the statute.
Yes, because what we want is gun owners or potential gun owners avoiding treatments and medications which could help them.

If a person would rather have a gun than be treated for his dangerous mental health issues (which is the only kind we're talking about here), then he shouldn't HAVE a gun to begin with.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Southern_Man 0]

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*********I would like to know exactly which prescriptions will be on this list of disqualifying drugs will get your weapons taken from you.

That's a fair question. I doubt drugs being used to treat are the only factors involved, but if there is a list of ones that would be considered prima facie evidence of disqualification to own, then it would be a good idea to publish it along with the statute.
Yes, because what we want is gun owners or potential gun owners avoiding treatments and medications which could help them.

If a person would rather have a gun than be treated for his dangerous mental health issues (which is the only kind we're talking about here), then he shouldn't HAVE a gun to begin with.

That's a great theory, and I actually agree with it. However, it is totally irrelevant to the dynamics the law creates. The guy who gets treatment will have his gun taken away. The guy who does not seek treatment or refuses the medications when offered will get to keep his guns. Less people will seek treatment. Less people will accept the doctor's suggestions.
In other words you have created a larger pool of people opting out of treatment with guns. Good luck with that.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[RonD1120 58]

Southern_Man

That's a great theory, and I actually agree with it. However, it is totally irrelevant to the dynamics the law creates. The guy who gets treatment will have his gun taken away. The guy who does not seek treatment or refuses the medications when offered will get to keep his guns. Less people will seek treatment. Less people will accept the doctor's suggestions.
In other words you have created a larger pool of people opting out of treatment with guns. Good luck with that.

To further complicate the issue here are a couple more factors.

1. Mental illness defined by the DSM (now) V is not the same as a legal definition of mental illness. Different states have different legal definitions.

2. Many of the Rx meds have aggressive side effects. For example, take a middle aged male suffering from Major Depression. He may be, prescribed Zoloft, a commonly used SSRI. Side effects in that age group could produce violent aggressive behavior not previously observed.

I also maintain the position that if gun ownership is directly related to mental health treatment there will be less people volunteering for treatment.

Concealed weapons permits are the only adequate defense for homicidal individuals.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DaVinci 0]

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but the system in place for pilots appears to work just fine and with far more at stake.

It does not work if it prevents pilots from self reporting.... And I know several pilots that will not go to mental health professionals for mental issues for fear of losing their job.

If a person is 'sane' enough to think they might need help.... Then they should not be treated the same as a person who is forced to seek help.

And there is ALREADY a process in place to report people who are deemed a threat.

[dmcoco84 4]

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If a person would rather have a gun than be treated for his dangerous mental health issues (which is the only kind we're talking about here), then he shouldn't HAVE a gun to begin with.

Which you can't even define.

[dmcoco84 4]

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If a person is 'sane' enough to think they might need help.... Then they should not be treated the same as a person who is forced to seek help.

And there is ALREADY a process in place to report people who are deemed a threat.

Truth! Truth!