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livendive

Tesla repays federal loan nearly 10 years early

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normiss

No, I need a work vehicle that has torque and can tow.



Torque isn't a problem. EVs have better torque curves than diesel, and much better than gas engines. Obviously total battery capacity is a problem for heavy hauling, may not be the practical answer unless it specializes on a single task.

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I, like most Americans, cannot afford a Tesla - hence the weak sales.
And the lack of sufficient charging stations.
And disposing the batteries.

Battery hybrids are still foolishly expensive IMO.



first generations of any technology are not cheap. Have you priced 4k TVs - Sony is about to release some that start at $5000 (50") and quickly go up.

battery disposal is certainly a non issue - we solved that a long time ago. Charging stations...an attempt to address range anxiety, but realistically the first users will be using the vehicles in their geo region, not for cross country.

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>No, I need a work vehicle that has torque and can tow.

OK. Most Americans don't. (BTW an EV is going to have far more torque than any equivalent truck.)

>I, like most Americans, cannot afford a Tesla - hence the weak sales.

Yet many Americans can - hence the profitability.

>And the lack of sufficient charging stations.

You can't find outlets?

>Battery hybrids are still foolishly expensive IMO.

Honda Civic non-hybrid - $18,000
Honda Insight hybrid - $19,000

Hybrids are getting cheap enough that people sometimes buy them and don't even know they have a hybrid.

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normiss

Show me an affordable electric vehicle (with FACTUAL ranges) that can tow 10 tons please.

I can't take a trip that requires me to stop every 55 miles for a one hour charge.



Nobody is suggesting that the Tesla and vehicles like it should be the only vehicles available.

Using your standard MOST vehicles used every day for commuting are useless, but the reality is quite different.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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normiss

Show me an affordable electric vehicle (with FACTUAL ranges) that can tow 10 tons please.

I can't take a trip that requires me to stop every 55 miles for a one hour charge.




That's a great question for the car manufacturers..... Provided their hands aren't tied by unfair laws and subsidies that subjectively favor competitors that are pushing a different, more political popular, design requirement.

If congressmen are pandering for votes that push a certain mission, how does the market respond to people like Normiss that have a real demand?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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normiss

My standard?
:D:D:D



your standard "what"

unacknowledged market demand?

you, sir, need a subsidy.
perhaps tax exempt status.

either way

....just answer a couple questions and we'll start processing your application.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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normiss

My standard?
:D:D:D



Yes, this one you just totally made up out of thin air.

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Show me an affordable electric vehicle (with FACTUAL ranges) that can tow 10 tons please.

I can't take a trip that requires me to stop every 55 miles for a one hour charge.


quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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>Yup. Me. Only me.
>No other person in this country needs a large work truck.
>Those trucks you see on the roads don't really exist.

>You should get out of the land of fruits and nuts more often.

Fruits and nuts. Yup, people who commute 10-30 miles to work are all "fruits and nuts." They're not real. Don't really exist. All those cars you see on the road in the morning? They're all either salesmen driving 200 miles or people towing 10 tons. No commuters there.

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You've seriously never heard of California referred to that way?
I call bullshit.

I made it clear earlier that this market is FOR commuters.
Thanks for paying attention.

I was trying to point out that you inner city fellers ain't the only ones buying cars!
Yet I am the only one with those requirements.

jebus.

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>I was trying to point out that you inner city fellers ain't the only ones buying cars!
>Yet I am the only one with those requirements.

?? You're not the only one with those requirements. It's just a small segment of the market.

Electric vehicles won't work for everyone. Nether will gasoline vehicles or diesel vehicles. Neither will natural gas vehicles, or E85 vehicles, or hybrids, or PHEV's. But all of them fulfill a need.

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billvon

>Fruits and nuts. Yup, people who commute 10-30 miles to work are all "fruits and nuts." They're not real. Don't really exist.



look, by your standard, all cars would.....



nevermind - this thread of already topped off with strawmen

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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champu

I ride my bicycle to work and now that I think about it, I can't tow shit.

That's it, after work I'm going to buy an F-650.



you should wait - eventually some congressman is going to need votes for re-election and then we'll get subsidies for big gas guzzlers to get the "voter that likes to own big gas guzzlers" block of votes.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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>Why won't you contribute $10,000 towards my new truck???

I do! I pay for roads that are way overbuilt for my needs so that you can take your 10 ton trailers over roads and bridges. But since that helps not only you but also truckers, construction equipment etc I don't mind paying it.

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>Why won't you contribute $10,000 towards my new truck???

I do! I pay for roads that are way overbuilt for my needs so that you can take your 10 ton trailers over roads and bridges. But since that helps not only you but also truckers, construction equipment etc I don't mind paying it.



see, I thought you'd go a totally different direction with that

just goes to show



I'll accept as a response - "SURE, and electric cars don't drive on roads and bridges:S, they only fly on rainbows. And ONLY YOU pay for roads and bridges, nobody else does"

provided the sarcasm smiley is present

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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billvon

>Why won't you contribute $10,000 towards my new truck???

I do! I pay for roads that are way overbuilt for my needs so that you can take your 10 ton trailers over roads and bridges. But since that helps not only you but also truckers, construction equipment etc I don't mind paying it.



Nice intellectually dishonest answer.

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normiss

Yup.
Me.
Only me.
No other person in this country needs a large work truck.
Those trucks you see on the roads don't really exist.
:S
You should get out of the land of fruits and nuts more often.



So you're still proposing a standard that is needed by 1% of the market (or do you want to argue it's 2%) and is not met by virtually every vehicle for sale. All those SUVs in LA that never even see dirt, never mind offroad, aren't able to pull 5 tons either.

I mean, it's a great way to fuck up a discussion with this canard, but other wise it's a pretty stupid argument. The diesel delivery trucks and semis aren't going to disappear anytime soon. What happens with hybrids and EVs is basically irrelevant to their future in the next ten to twenty years. (I believe hybrids are already starting to enter the truck world because of their high torque at stop).

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billvon

>Nice intellectually dishonest answer.

And nice classic SC answer. All snark, no content.



snark = doesn't like to have a dishonest answer pointed out

Content = pretending to not understand normiss's point when formulating your answer.

there I spelled it out for you, happy now?

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>Why won't you contribute $10,000 towards my new truck???

I do! I pay for roads that are way overbuilt for my needs so that you can take your 10 ton trailers over roads and bridges. But since that helps not only you but also truckers, construction equipment etc I don't mind paying it.




Normiss's point here was regarding the subsidies provided for electric cars and bilvon pretended to not understand that.

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