Mass shooting of the week - New Orleans

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

Can you imagine how bad the crime rate would be if people were not allowed to carry weapons?

I guess we can chalk this up to ANOTHER mass shooting at a "gun free zone". Schools, dayscares, businesses that ban possession on premises, parades... Are we seeing the trend here people?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Stumpy 256]

Armed Guards for everyone!!!!!

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[rehmwa 2]

Kennedy

Quote

Can you imagine how bad the crime rate would be if people were not allowed to carry weapons?

I guess we can chalk this up to ANOTHER mass shooting at a "gun free zone". Schools, dayscares, businesses that ban possession on premises, parades... Are we seeing the trend here people?

I think it's contingent upon businesses that ban guns to have ACTIVE means to check and ensure nobody sneaks one in.

It's their choice, but then it's their responsibility to protect those inside. Clearly they are failing with the current policy of - "Post a Sign and bury head in sand"

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ManagingPrime 0]

rehmwa

***

Quote

Can you imagine how bad the crime rate would be if people were not allowed to carry weapons?

I guess we can chalk this up to ANOTHER mass shooting at a "gun free zone". Schools, dayscares, businesses that ban possession on premises, parades... Are we seeing the trend here people?

I think it's contingent upon businesses that ban guns to have ACTIVE means to check and ensure nobody sneaks one in.

It's their choice, but then it's their responsibility to protect those inside. Clearly they are failing with the current policy of - "Post a Sign and bury head in sand"

Still does not solve the problem. In the real world much of the gun violence takes place in "the other america". Address the issues that cause us to have "other americas" and we will see a massive drop in gun violence and then the fringes "random nutters, domestic abusers", etc.

If the government can manage to address the real issue then they will have a lot more credibility in my eyes when it comes to addressing "pre-crime".

[rehmwa 2]

ManagingPrime

Still does not solve the problem.

I agree. I would just like to ensure that, when a business restricts people from arming themselves, that the business is liable for protecting those people. They would then think twice about just hanging a sign.

It would make everyone think twice about the lack of logic involved in that decision....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Kennedy 0]

Aw, whatsamattuh there fella? Your ignorance too embarassing to keep commenting? We'll pass on blaming gun control laws (gun free victim disarmament zones) for another mass shooting. Today we'll just be happy the two scumbag shooters are in custody under $10million bond, and four other scumbags are in custody for being accomplices, the LA version of aiding and abetting after the fact.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[regulator 0]

TK's posting is similar to the shooting tactics used by these thugs in new orleans.

Spray and pray.

And in this instance he's praying this thread will go away.

[turtlespeed 212]

regulator

TK's posting is similar to the shooting tactics used by these thugs in new orleans.

Spray and pray.

And in this instance he's praying this thread will go away.

Is this the equivalent to Obama saying that he has been to 57 states and only has one to go?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[toolbox 0]

[toolbox 0]

Yep!

[popsjumper 2]

If I start a business, then I'm automatically signing up as "The Great Protector"? You want ME to be responsible for YOUR safety? You might think I'm supposed to be a soldier or an LEO of some sort, by jovies, it should NOT be in the business-owner job description.

Is there a problem with people being responsible for themselves?

Would I try? Of course! But no more so than I would were you on the street or at home. Just as I would like to think you would do the same for me. But making me responsible and accountable for your safety is stuff of over-imaginative dreams.

My opinion. YMMV.

Some joker sneaks a weapon in, no matter what type, or even used what he finds already inside and whacks one of your customers and now you are in court facing a lawsuit because you "didn't protect him"??????? You are not going to like that, I'm sure.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

I'm telling you guys defending weapons...you're are all wrong.
It IS those damned weapons fault. ALL their fault.

Every damned one involved in shootings is carrying around some stupid, dangerous human.

They carry them around right out in the open!

BAN HUMANS!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

A Wisconsin man survived a bear attack thanks to his wife's unique use of a shotgun.

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/wisconsin-woman-uses-shotgun-club-save-husband-bear-161120657.html?vp=1

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[tkhayes 125]

Shotguns are not the problem- handguns most definitely are

[normiss 622]

Right, we're told to just shoot shotguns in the air on our front porch.
Sounds fine to me.


My guns have never been a problem.

[toolbox 0]

>Shotguns are not the problem-hand guns most definitely are.

Knives,clubs,hand guns,shotguns,rifles,poison,or bombs are not the problem.
Bad people,stupid people,crazy people,and religious zealots appear to be the problem.
As far as shotguns and hand guns go,they are both close range weapons with the shotguns being far more deadly than hand guns,and shotguns are better suited as offensive weapons than the much smaller and less powerful hand guns which are more suited as your last line of defense or what you would use to fight your way to a long gun. Because hand guns have far less power than most long guns,they often need several more rounds to stop threats and thus they need a higher round capacity.
Long guns are for hunting all animals,hand guns are for defense against people and some animals.
Do you think as many people would have survived being shot with a 12 gauge instead of a pistol at this parade?
Many 12 gauge shotguns hold 8 shells, and most can be easily modified to hold 3 to 4 more additional shells
Wow! Imagine 12 rounds of 12 gauge fire power?

[Kennedy 0]

tkhayes

Shotguns are not the problem- handguns most definitely are

Why? Millions carry them every day. Hundreds of millions own them with no issue. Between hundreds of thousand and several million use them for self defense. Why are handguns a "problem" in your mind? Aren't violent criminals the real problem?

ps - you're welcome for the information about laws banning even folks with permits from carrying around parades. I don't understand why you hate the idea of concealed carry so much. You keep suggesting they'll make things worse, but you can't find a single instance of that happening. I could show you thousands and thousands of incidents where they made it better.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Gravitymaster 0]

I really wonder how many ccw permit holders have been involved in mass shootings? You are right, I can't think of a single instance. Obviously criminals and loonies don't apply for ccw's so why go after them?

[tkhayes 125]

The number involved in mass shootings is small, but the number involved in other individual shootings and crime is arguably rather high. Rather easy Google search to find out just how many happen every day in the USA.

You (and everyone else's) assumption that all CCW holders are somehow 'good citizens' is quite flawed. Everyone is innocent of a crime until they commit one. And pretty much any of us is capable of committing a crime, depending on the circumstances we find ourselves in.

If you are capable of committing a gun crime, and you have a gun, that increases the probability that it might happen.

If you are capable of committing a gun crime but have difficulty finding a gun, that greatly reduces the probability.

The reason we do not have more ricin attacks in the country is because ricin is hard to get your hands on. The reason we have fewer homemade bombs made with dynamite is that dynamite is hard to get your hands on.

The reason we have such a high rate of people being killed by handguns is (in part) due to the relative ease at which one can get a handgun. CCW or not.

[tkhayes 125]

Yes millions of people have shotguns, but they are not used in crime (far less than handguns) due to their size and difficulty to conceal them.

shotguns are not the problem. If they were, then the statistics would reflect that. The statistics DO NOT reflect that, hence my statement stands.

The problem in this country is MOST OBVIOUSLY handguns, but all measures. But of course you would deny that, even though the gun lobby itself posts the statistics about axes/hammers/blunt objects every day, yet leaves out the handgun numbers.

Because of course, they are the problem. And we would not want to acknowledge any facts in the debate now would we?

[kallend 1,623]

toolbox

>Shotguns are not the problem-hand guns most definitely are.

Knives,clubs,hand guns,shotguns,rifles,poison,or bombs are not the problem.
Bad people,stupid people,crazy people,and religious zealots appear to be the problem.

Wouldn't it be nice, then, if we had an effective process for keeping bad people,stupid people,crazy people,and religious zealots from getting weapons with which they can commit mayhem.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[popsjumper 2]

kallend

***>Shotguns are not the problem-hand guns most definitely are.

Knives,clubs,hand guns,shotguns,rifles,poison,or bombs are not the problem.
Bad people,stupid people,crazy people,and religious zealots appear to be the problem.

Wouldn't it be nice, then, if we had an effective process for keeping bad people,stupid people,crazy people,and religious zealots from getting weapons with which they can commit mayhem.

Don't forget college professors and DZ management.
You have to be completely insane to be either one of those guys.


Seriously, though, I agree with the concept but I have reservations about your groupings. It appears that you are saying ALL of those people in your groupings are to be denied.

You're using the shotgun approach.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

tkhayes

...You (and everyone else's) assumption that all CCW holders are somehow 'good citizens' is quite flawed. Everyone is innocent of a crime until they commit one. And pretty much any of us is capable of committing a crime, depending on the circumstances we find ourselves in.

If you are capable of committing a gun crime, and you have a gun, that increases the probability that it might happen...

Care to back that up with any facts?

I can't find it with a quick search, but IIRC, there was a report that CCW holders were arrested (for all crimes, misdemeanor and felony) at a rate of 0.02% (two tenths of one percent), while the general public had approximately a 4% FELONY CONVICTION rate.

Total arrests for all crimes vs felony convictions, and the CCW rate is one twentieth of the general public.

The people I know who have permits and carry regularly understand the responsibility of it. There are a few "Yahoos", but they are definitely in the minority.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Kennedy 0]

Last I saw, (admittedly severely years ago) CHL holders had a significantly lower arrest rate than the public, and in the majority of states they had lower conviction rates than law enforcement!

But don't expect facts from TK. He's running on emotion and masking it with misinformation.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[jcd11235 0]

wolfriverjoe

I can't find it with a quick search, but IIRC, there was a report that CCW holders were arrested (for all crimes, misdemeanor and felony) at a rate of 0.02% (two tenths of one percent), while the general public had approximately a 4% FELONY CONVICTION rate.

Total arrests for all crimes vs felony convictions, and the CCW rate is one twentieth of the general public.

The people I know who have permits and carry regularly understand the responsibility of it. There are a few "Yahoos", but they are definitely in the minority.

Comparing CCW holders to the general population is a meaningless comparison. The CCW application process weeds out many people who are statistically more likely to commit crimes. If we want to know if legally carrying a gun makes one more or less likely to commit a crime, we have to compare CCW holders who carry regularly with people who would qualify for CCW if they applied, but don't apply. We can't learn anything useful about the effect of legally carrying a gun if both groups being studied don't go through the same vetting process.

The lower crime rate for CCW holders might indicate that legally carrying makes one less likely to commit crime, or it might mean carrying a gun has no effect, but the application process effectively vets future criminals. It is even possible and plausible that carrying a gun makes one a little more likely to commit crime, but the application process works well enough that its effect is greater than the effect of carrying a gun.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!