normiss 620
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billvon 2,379
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>in terms of getting rid of Saddam, it worked great, and quickly. It terms of
>eliminating any concern with weapons, it worked even better.
And it did enrich a lot of military contractors, and provided us with some excellent debt that we can use to support our lenders.
But in terms of accomplishing its goal - failed miserably.
Now let's compare that to the strategy we employed with Cuba, which was to let them rant and rave and eventually get so old that they were no longer a factor.
> It was the nation building that Bush and liberals (like you) insisted had to be done that hurt.
You're unusually Speaker's Cornerish today.
>eliminating any concern with weapons, it worked even better.
And it did enrich a lot of military contractors, and provided us with some excellent debt that we can use to support our lenders.
But in terms of accomplishing its goal - failed miserably.
Now let's compare that to the strategy we employed with Cuba, which was to let them rant and rave and eventually get so old that they were no longer a factor.
> It was the nation building that Bush and liberals (like you) insisted had to be done that hurt.
You're unusually Speaker's Cornerish today.
Andy9o8 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI do not agree to giving weapons to Syrian rebels on the ground. They would almost certainly make their way to Hezbollah fairly quickly.
Hezbollah is on Assad's side, you have it backwards.QuoteI wasn't clear. I meant that once Assad fell, which I do think is inevitable, the present rebels - who currently seem to have some loose ties to al Quaeda, will be the new guys in power, and there will be a realignment. the former rebels will reach an accommodation with Hezbollah, and that will include some transfer of materiel in the long run. Over the short run, weapons to rebels will probably bleed-over into al Quaeda units. And al Quaeda and Hezbollah have overlapping (even if not identical) agendas, as well as common enemies. But yes, I could have said it better.
>>>>>I doubt that at any time, that any weapons from Syria will will be going to Hezbollah. Hezbollah being Shia, and funded by Iran, Sunni and Hezbollah are already fighting in Lebanon, they will not be getting any favors from the Sunni rebels. The Sunni's are already staring to get restless with the Shia dominated government in Iraq, and now with Iran loosing Assad, I bet Iraq explodes.
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Well, Hezbollah, the Syrian Sunni and the Syrian Shia all have a certain common enemy next door to them, now don't they? Even if materiel from Syrian rebels doesn't eventually get shared with Hezbollah, al Quaeda's intertwining with the Syrian rebels is increasing steadily. The point is: if US arms are given to Syrian rebels on the ground, they will eventually be used against US and US allies' interests.
jclalor 12
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI do not agree to giving weapons to Syrian rebels on the ground. They would almost certainly make their way to Hezbollah fairly quickly.
Hezbollah is on Assad's side, you have it backwards.QuoteI wasn't clear. I meant that once Assad fell, which I do think is inevitable, the present rebels - who currently seem to have some loose ties to al Quaeda, will be the new guys in power, and there will be a realignment. the former rebels will reach an accommodation with Hezbollah, and that will include some transfer of materiel in the long run. Over the short run, weapons to rebels will probably bleed-over into al Quaeda units. And al Quaeda and Hezbollah have overlapping (even if not identical) agendas, as well as common enemies. But yes, I could have said it better.
>>>>>I doubt that at any time, that any weapons from Syria will will be going to Hezbollah. Hezbollah being Shia, and funded by Iran, Sunni and Hezbollah are already fighting in Lebanon, they will not be getting any favors from the Sunni rebels. The Sunni's are already staring to get restless with the Shia dominated government in Iraq, and now with Iran loosing Assad, I bet Iraq explodes.
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QuoteWell, Hezbollah, the Syrian Sunni and the Syrian Shia all have a certain common enemy next door to them, now don't they? Even if materiel from Syrian rebels doesn't eventually get shared with Hezbollah, al Quaeda's intertwining with the Syrian rebels is increasing steadily. The point is: if US arms are given to Syrian rebels on the ground, they will eventually be used against US and US allies' interests.
AQ has never really focused on Israel, I cant remember one attack. OTOH, Hezbollah's whole function in life is to drive Israel into the sea. With Iran loosing Syria, they loose their land route to supply Hezbollah in Lebanon. AQ in Iraq will be the big winner.
Andy9o8 0
QuoteAQ has never really focused on Israel, I cant remember one attack.
AQ still views Israel as an enemy, even if not its primary focus, for now. And there have been some:
http://www.debka.com/article/22871/
http://jcpa.org/al-qaedas-branch-in-gaza-set-to-escalate-anti-israeli-terror/
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57456647/al-qaeda-linked-group-claims-responsibility-for-deadly-israel-attack/
Quote
Now let's compare that to the strategy we employed with Cuba, which was to let them rant and rave and eventually get so old that they were no longer a factor.
They haven't been a factor for decades. Were it not for some crazy Cuban exiles in Miami, we could have ditched this policy a long time ago. All it has done is hurt the Cubans and give Canadians a place to go without many of us around.
Quote
> It was the nation building that Bush and liberals (like you) insisted had to be done that hurt.
You're unusually Speaker's Cornerish today.
One who has nothing better to do could pretty quickly find your postings stating exactly that.
jclalor 12
I would have really liked to return to Aleppo, it's a great city. I stayed at the baron hotel, perhaps the swankiest hotel in the middle east during it's glory days. I had the choice of staying in the room that Agatha Christie started writing Murder on the orient express or the room where Lawrence of Arabia stayed in when he was in town. They still have his last bill that he never paid under class at the counter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Hotel
Being detained by the Syrian secret police for 10 hours was not very fun, but these things build character.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Hotel
Being detained by the Syrian secret police for 10 hours was not very fun, but these things build character.
rwieder 0
Syria's problems, are Syria's problems. We need to take care of the good ol' US of A!
-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
dmcoco84 4
QuoteYou would think after Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya that we would have learned that nothing good happens when we get involved in that area.
Except when there is a direct DESIRE to help the Muslim Brotherhood.
Obama and Recep are buddies... and Recep hates Assad; it's personal.
Connect the dots...
OHCHUTE 0
We're not very good at resolving conflicts in these countries. Lets face it, when the dust settles, there will be will be someone who will take US aid, and buy F16's, or sell an oil lease which is basically US foreign policy. It's hard to beat: Natural Selection.
wolfriverjoe 1,339
QuoteWe have made that mistake before. The Stinger missiles we gave to the Mujaheddin to fight the evil Russkies were used against us less than a generation later by their descendents, Al Qaeda.
Do you have any documentation of that? I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely curious.
I know that the Stingers got onto the market (they would fetch about twice what the CIA was trying to buy them back for).
They got used in a variety of countries, but I am unaware of them ever being used against the US.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
billvon 2,379
>Do you have any documentation of that? I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely curious.
The Mujaheddin became the Taliban, who were instrumental in supporting Al Qaeda before 9/11. Some quotes:
===========
William D. Hartung is a senior fellow at the World Policy Institute at the New School and the director of the Institute’s Arms Trade Resource Center.
William D. Hartung, Oct 2006:
"In fact, American-made weapons also frequently end up pointing at American soldiers. For example, the early foundations of al-Qaida were built in part on relationships and weaponry that came from the billions of dollars in U.S. support for the Afghan mujahadin during the war to expel Soviet forces from that country."
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Larry King, October 2001:
Bandar bin Sultan (of Saudi Arabia): This is ironic. In the mid-'80s, if you remember, we and the United States - Saudi Arabia and the United States were supporting the Mujahideen to liberate Afghanistan from the Soviets. He [Osama bin Laden] came to thank me for my efforts to bring the Americans, our friends, to help us against the atheists, he said the communists. Isn't it ironic?
Larry King: How ironic. In other words, he came to thank you for helping bring America to help him.
Bandar bin Sultan: Right.
==========
The Mujaheddin became the Taliban, who were instrumental in supporting Al Qaeda before 9/11. Some quotes:
===========
William D. Hartung is a senior fellow at the World Policy Institute at the New School and the director of the Institute’s Arms Trade Resource Center.
William D. Hartung, Oct 2006:
"In fact, American-made weapons also frequently end up pointing at American soldiers. For example, the early foundations of al-Qaida were built in part on relationships and weaponry that came from the billions of dollars in U.S. support for the Afghan mujahadin during the war to expel Soviet forces from that country."
===========
Larry King, October 2001:
Bandar bin Sultan (of Saudi Arabia): This is ironic. In the mid-'80s, if you remember, we and the United States - Saudi Arabia and the United States were supporting the Mujahideen to liberate Afghanistan from the Soviets. He [Osama bin Laden] came to thank me for my efforts to bring the Americans, our friends, to help us against the atheists, he said the communists. Isn't it ironic?
Larry King: How ironic. In other words, he came to thank you for helping bring America to help him.
Bandar bin Sultan: Right.
==========
I like hot sauce.
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