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Andy9o8

Thinking of Going to Dubai? Read This First!

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It's amazing how people can judge something without even knowing what's happens for real...

I live in Dubai for a year now, and although I'm not a real big fan of the place, I have to admit that things works here. First of all, you will be surprised to see how western this city is, specially because 85% of the population is not from UAE. Second, the rules are very clear here! If you try to be a smart ass, you will have to face the consequences.. because here, the law is applied!! I prefer living in a place where the rules are applied, instead of living in a place where corruption dictates, and the security doesn't work!

I known a lot of people, and I never heard about anything weird going on with them... if you live your life normally, you won't have any problem in this town! The city has everything that you can imagine. An amazing infra structure for leisure, sports, entertainment, etc etc etc...

You are just trowing some news trying to generalize the whole place... things like that happens everywhere! Don't be too American, ok?! Open your mind, just a little bit!

I will say again, I'm not a real big fan of this place, there are some stuff that bothers me, much more related with the brainless people (expats) that you will find here.. but what the Arabs build here in 15-20 years, is really impressive!! I never seem anything like that in the entire world!

And by the way, Skydive Dubai is legendary!!!!! Amazing people that really embraces you!!

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I'm sure you're a nice person, but . . . Fuck Dubai.

If I could stand on a corner in Dubai and say that without fear of being arrested, my opinion would probably be different.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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nadominhoca

Don't be too American, ok?! Open your mind, just a little bit!



as amazingly close minded and stereotyped a statement as can be wrote

nicely played

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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nadominhoca

It's amazing how people can judge something without even knowing what's happens for real...



Do you know "what happens there for real?"

Quote

Sahinal Monir, a slim 24-year-old from the deltas of Bangladesh. "To get you here, they tell you Dubai is heaven. Then you get here and realise it is hell," he says. Four years ago, an employment agent arrived in Sahinal's village in Southern Bangladesh. He told the men of the village that there was a place where they could earn 40,000 takka a month (£400) just for working nine-to-five on construction projects. It was a place where they would be given great accommodation, great food, and treated well. All they had to do was pay an up-front fee of 220,000 takka (£2,300) for the work visa – a fee they'd pay off in the first six months, easy. So Sahinal sold his family land, and took out a loan from the local lender, to head to this paradise.

As soon as he arrived at Dubai airport, his passport was taken from him by his construction company. He has not seen it since. He was told brusquely that from now on he would be working 14-hour days in the desert heat – where western tourists are advised not to stay outside for even five minutes in summer, when it hits 55 degrees – for 500 dirhams a month (£90), less than a quarter of the wage he was promised. If you don't like it, the company told him, go home. "But how can I go home? You have my passport, and I have no money for the ticket," he said. "Well, then you'd better get to work," they replied.

Sahinal was in a panic. His family back home – his son, daughter, wife and parents – were waiting for money, excited that their boy had finally made it. But he was going to have to work for more than two years just to pay for the cost of getting here – and all to earn less than he did in Bangladesh.

He shows me his room. It is a tiny, poky, concrete cell with triple-decker bunk-beds, where he lives with 11 other men. All his belongings are piled onto his bunk: three shirts, a spare pair of trousers, and a cellphone. The room stinks, because the lavatories in the corner of the camp – holes in the ground – are backed up with excrement and clouds of black flies. There is no air conditioning or fans, so the heat is "unbearable. You cannot sleep. All you do is sweat and scratch all night." At the height of summer, people sleep on the floor, on the roof, anywhere where they can pray for a moment of breeze.

The water delivered to the camp in huge white containers isn't properly desalinated: it tastes of salt. "It makes us sick, but we have nothing else to drink," he says.

The work is "the worst in the world," he says. "You have to carry 50kg bricks and blocks of cement in the worst heat imaginable ... This heat – it is like nothing else. You sweat so much you can't pee, not for days or weeks. It's like all the liquid comes out through your skin and you stink. You become dizzy and sick but you aren't allowed to stop, except for an hour in the afternoon. You know if you drop anything or slip, you could die. If you take time off sick, your wages are docked, and you are trapped here even longer."



Are you cool with that?

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

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Andy9o8



Re: how it is that the prosecution can appeal, that occurs in many countries outside the US. Yep, it's double jeopardy. Aren't you glad you have the US Constitution?



Ha! How does that help if after being acquitted on battery charges the feds charge you with violating the victim's civil rights (Koon and Powell).
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Are you cool with that?



Of course! How else would they build the big shiny skyscrapers which show the rest of the world how great they are?



(And this is also why people who say that government should have no role in regulating industry are talking absolute bollocks)
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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kallend

***

Re: how it is that the prosecution can appeal, that occurs in many countries outside the US. Yep, it's double jeopardy. Aren't you glad you have the US Constitution?



Ha! How does that help if after being acquitted on battery charges the feds charge you with violating the victim's civil rights (Koon and Powell).

Doesn't. I've posted previously about my unease about that.

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rehmwa

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Plus, civil lawsuits use a lower standard of proof than criminal cases do, so an acquittal in a criminal case does not preclude a civil lawsuit arising out of the same facts.



A civil case can 'arise' for pretty much anything but the idea that the verdict can be in complete opposition just sucks and makes no sense at all...

The defense should be able to come right in and provide the verdict from the criminal case and have the civil case dismissed immediately

(my assumption is that the civil case is based completely upon the opposite verdict of the criminal case - not some peripheral thing or unrelated items)



In the GCC, it is common that foreigners involved in any kind of legal action or with unpaid debts are forbidden to leave until said disputes or debts are resolved.

I once decided that if such injustice happened to me over here (and I was being held in the pokey), I'd get a sail kayak and take my chances in the Gulf, maybe sail to the Strait of Hormuz and try to get the attention of a US Navy ship. Another option would be to cross the Strait over to Iran, though I admit I'd have to be pretty desperate for that gambit.

mh
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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

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markharju

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Quote

Plus, civil lawsuits use a lower standard of proof than criminal cases do, so an acquittal in a criminal case does not preclude a civil lawsuit arising out of the same facts.



A civil case can 'arise' for pretty much anything but the idea that the verdict can be in complete opposition just sucks and makes no sense at all...

The defense should be able to come right in and provide the verdict from the criminal case and have the civil case dismissed immediately

(my assumption is that the civil case is based completely upon the opposite verdict of the criminal case - not some peripheral thing or unrelated items)



In the GCC, it is common that foreigners involved in any kind of legal action or with unpaid debts are forbidden to leave until said disputes or debts are resolved.

I once decided that if such injustice happened to me over here (and I was being held in the pokey), I'd get a sail kayak and take my chances in the Gulf, maybe sail to the Strait of Hormuz and try to get the attention of a US Navy ship. Another option would be to cross the Strait over to Iran, though I admit I'd have to be pretty desperate for that gambit.

mh
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"Such injustice"? Wouldn't justice generally involve paying your debts?

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"Such injustice"? Wouldn't justice generally involve paying your debts?



Outside of the Third World, it is generally considered outside the rule of modern law to essentially detain a person indefinitely from travel outside the country simply because they're a party to a civil dispute over a debt claim.

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Andy9o8

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"Such injustice"? Wouldn't justice generally involve paying your debts?



Outside of the Third World, it is generally considered outside the rule of modern law to essentially detain a person indefinitely from travel outside the country simply because they're a party to a civil dispute over a debt claim.



And a country that is not their own. Such cases can take years to be resolved, and meanwhile, the victim is in legal limbo.

One can also be the victim of a phony overcharge, or many other methods. Part of the reason for the law, however, is expats running up huge debts and then skipping.

Unfortunately, it also makes it easier for predatory lenders, etc. to exploit the vast 3rd-world labor pool that exists in the GCC. AFAIK only Qatar has a safe-harbor policy for 3rd-world expats who have been mistreated or exploited. In Saudi - forget it. Workers from the poorest of dirt-poor muslim countries have been executed for "witchcraft" or been tortured, sometimes to death, by Saudis. Please do not take my word for it - go look it up.

In summary I'd recommend that if one is going to Dubai: be certain not to do or say anything that would piss off the locals, especially during Ramadan. That includes dress, speech, and manners (including gestures). Giving someone "The Finger" for example, can easily result in prosecution and a stiff fine. state.gov has general guidelines for each country.

mh
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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/norwegian-woman-wages-public-fight-against-dubai-jail-sentence-after-reporting-alleged-rape/2013/07/19/069df602-f098-11e2-bc0d-556690a86be2_story.html

Quote

Norwegian woman wages public fight against Dubai jail sentence after reporting alleged rape

By Associated Press, Published: July 19

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — A Norwegian woman sentenced to 16 months in jail in Dubai for having sex outside marriage after she reported an alleged rape said Friday she decided to speak out in hopes of drawing attention to the risks of outsiders misunderstanding the Islamic-influenced legal codes in this cosmopolitan city.

The case has drawn outrage from rights groups and others in the West since the 24-year-old interior designer was sentenced Wednesday. It also highlights the increasingly frequent tensions between the United Arab Emirates’ international atmosphere and its legal system, which is strongly influenced by Islamic traditions in a nation where foreign workers and visitors greatly outnumber locals.

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skydiver30960

Quote

Quote

The judge acquitted Dr. Karabus of the charges.

An official in the prosecution’s office said the nine-member panel of medical experts had absolved Dr. Karabus because there was not enough evidence to support the charges.

Still, Dr. Karabus’s ordeal is not over. On March 28, the prosecution said it would appeal the decision.



Er, what?



The gist, as I take it, is that the prosecution is admitting they lost the case, but has right to appeal. AND, it seems that (probably due to his being a foreign national or just an element of UAE law) that the MD is being held pending appeal rather than released on bond.



This is quite usual in the UK (and I assume most of the common law jurisdictions that borrow heavily from our jurisprudence).

I think you're all a bit confused about double jeopardy. Double jeopardy refers to restarting the whole process again once all legal proceedings are finalised. It does not stop a case being appealed to a higher court, as that is considered a continuation of the initial proceedings.

So just as in the US you can have appeals to the Supreme Court, in the UK it's possible to have appeals from Magistrates' Court to Crown Court to the Court of Appeal and finally the Supreme Court.

Having said that, I think by visiting Dubai you are implicitly accepting the moral implications of the overconsumption and exploitation as well as the approach to women/alcohol/drugs/etc.

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skinnay



"Such injustice"? Wouldn't justice generally involve paying your debts?



Yes people should pay their debts. However, it is ignorant to think that in every single situation it is immoral to not pay debt. Isn't it also unjust to trick someone into slave labor, indebt them and make it practically impossible for them to escape the country?

Besides, it sounds like their government has no morals and is corrupt, I don't see the big deal with not paying the government back an excessive visa fee. It's worse to not pay a business a debt for a product or service because they engage in honest work to support themselves and their families. Whereas the government uses the money for oppression and severe punishment for minor non criminal behavior.

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nadominhoca

Second, the rules are very clear here! If you try to be a smart ass, you will have to face the consequences.. because here, the law is applied!! I prefer living in a place where the rules are applied, instead of living in a place where corruption dictates, and the security doesn't work!



I get the part about following their rules when you're there, excepet I do think 4 years for THC possession is a case of the crime is the punishment. What is really the crime here? Taking a persons life, or experiemnting with a harmless substance? Keep in mind I don't smoke and wouldn't neccessarily recommend it, I just don't think it warrants the death penalty.

But what really gets me is persecution of the innocent, I want to know that if I don't smoke marijuana or drink alcohol in their country that I won't be sent to prison. I get following their rules, I just want to make sure that they follow their own rules. I hate this whole mindset about they have rules and if you don't like it don't go, but what's the point if they don't follow their own rules and burn the innocent on the stake? If you don't have marijuana and are charged with possession what's the point of the rule?

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