We need to raise taxes...umm...but not the ones I pay

[airdvr 197]

USPA Challenges Proposed User Fee

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On April 11, one day after President Obama unveiled his 2014 budget containing a new $100 per flight user fee, USPA wrote to the president explaining how such a fee would devastate businesses that operate skydiving airplanes. The new fee would apply to each flight by a turbine aircraft in controlled airspace. “It is clear that no one within the administration understands that turbine jump planes routinely make up to 25 flights per day. An operator with one turbine airplane could pay $2,500 each day in user fees; an operator with two aircraft could pay $5,000 each day,” said Ed Scott, USPA’s Executive Director. USPA pointed out that those same operators already pay between $158 and $263 per aircraft per day in federal fuel taxes on jet fuel. USPA described a new user fee as “inequitable, duplicative and (requiring) a new, costly bureaucratic process to assess and collect the fee.” USPA requested that the president withdraw his aviation user fee proposal. Many Members of Congress already oppose aviation user fees, so the administration has a high hurdle to clear to get a bill through Congress. However, USPA and skydiving businesses need to take action now, rather than counting on Congress to defeat the proposed tax.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Andy9o8 0]

Since taxation was first conceived of, the debate over it has always been over whose ox gets gored.

Anyhow, skydivers are a powerful lobby in Washington, so let's get in there and do battle.

[airdvr 197]

Just to clarify...I don't want this tax either. But since raising taxes is so difficult let's just cut spending. That'll be much easier

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[beowulf 1]

They should cut spending, the Government has a spending problem not a tax problem. Raising taxes will just give them more money to spend.

[billvon 2,396]

> But since raising taxes is so difficult let's just cut spending. That'll be much easier

Sure. We could just cut across the board, and that includes ATC. Cut non-critical services like flight following and airspace access for less important uses like . . . . wait a minute . . .

[airdvr 197]

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Bolas 5]

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“inequitable, duplicative and (requiring) a new, costly bureaucratic process to assess and collect the fee.”

If I remember correctly, the USPA did recommend if more taxes were needed to just raise fuel taxes.

Creating new taxing divisions from scratch is also not the answer.

The tax increases should come from existing tax sources and need to affect all in some way. Those who are not paying and getting assistance should receive less.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Bolas 5]

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> But since raising taxes is so difficult let's just cut spending. That'll be much easier

Sure. We could just cut across the board, and that includes ATC. Cut non-critical services like flight following and airspace access for less important uses like . . . . wait a minute . . .

Or pull those services off the general budget and fund those by use fees charged to passengers, and airlines/pilots both private and commercial.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 2,396]

>Or pull those services off the general budget and fund those by use fees charged
>to passengers, and airlines/pilots both private and commercial.

. . . . thus coming full circle back to Obama's proposal.

[Bolas 5]

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>Or pull those services off the general budget and fund those by use fees charged
>to passengers, and airlines/pilots both private and commercial.

. . . . thus coming full circle back to Obama's proposal.

Except there already is a fee/tax system in place. Just raise those versus attempting to create new ones.

ATC, TSA, and the FAA could very easily become self sustaining.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[kallend 1,623]

The Congress has already indicated that this is DOA.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Southern_Man 0]

Hasn't this same user fee been proposed several years in a row?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[kallend 1,623]

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Hasn't this same user fee been proposed several years in a row?

Yes. Going back to the GWB years.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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Hasn't this same user fee been proposed several years in a row?

Yes. Going back to the GWB years.

I actually define the GWB years as the 8 years he was in charge. PLUS then all the years since that the next guy just keeps doing the same things, only more so. And charging even more.

It's seems like forever....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 1,623]

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Hasn't this same user fee been proposed several years in a row?

Yes. Going back to the GWB years.

I actually define the GWB years as the 8 years he was in charge. PLUS then all the years since that the next guy just keeps doing the same things, only more so. And charging even more.

It's seems like forever....

You and Roger Daltrey both.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[quade 3]

This is not the first, nor I suspect, the last time "user fees" for aviation services have been proposed. In my recollection, AOPA and other various aviation alphabet groups have successfully fought off these proposals for decades.

Yes, it's something to consider, but our lobbying groups generally do this work on our behalf and do a pretty good job of dealing with it.

I wouldn't panic.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]
“It is clear that no one within the administration understands that turbine jump planes routinely make up to 25 flights per day.

[quade 3]

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Um - I think that the administration DOES understand that and sees an extra $2500 per otter load per day as being a wonderful thing. If it was 300 days it operated, that's $750k per year per plane

Highly unlikely.

Far more likely and typical of the way this has been played out in a number of attempts in the past, none of the lawmakers considered it for a second and when it's simply brought to their attention they'll say something to the effect of, "Oh, we didn't think of that. Now we understand it wouldn't work. Oops. Never mind."

Until the next guy proposes it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,396]

>Um - I think that the administration DOES understand that and sees an extra
>$2500 per otter load per day as being a wonderful thing.

Yep. And you see your "free" ATC services as a wonderful thing.

[kallend 1,623]

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[Reply]
“It is clear that no one within the administration understands that turbine jump planes routinely make up to 25 flights per day.

Um - I think that the administration DOES understand that and sees an extra $2500 per otter load per day as being a wonderful thing..

[quade 3]

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[Reply]
“It is clear that no one within the administration understands that turbine jump planes routinely make up to 25 flights per day.

Um - I think that the administration DOES understand that and sees an extra $2500 per otter load per day as being a wonderful thing..

I think you are full of it. Skydiving is a blip so tiny that I doubt it crossed anyone's radar except those of skydivers and DZOs.

[lawrocket 3]

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[Reply]
“It is clear that no one within the administration understands that turbine jump planes routinely make up to 25 flights per day.

Um - I think that the administration DOES understand that and sees an extra $2500 per otter load per day as being a wonderful thing..

I think you are full of it. Skydiving is a blip so tiny that I doubt it crossed anyone's radar except those of skydivers and DZOs.

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]Yep. And you see your "free" ATC services as a wonderful thing.

[kallend 1,623]

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[Reply]
“It is clear that no one within the administration understands that turbine jump planes routinely make up to 25 flights per day.

Um - I think that the administration DOES understand that and sees an extra $2500 per otter load per day as being a wonderful thing..

I think you are full of it. Skydiving is a blip so tiny that I doubt it crossed anyone's radar except those of skydivers and DZOs.

It may very well be. But every commuter flight in a Brasilia is also $100 more. That'd be $5-$10 per passenger per flight extra. You know how many of those there are?

No - it didn't seek to target skydiving. It didn't consider it.

So your comment about "Otter load" didn't refer to skydiving. Oh - Kaaaay

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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So your comment about "Otter load" didn't refer to skydiving. Oh - Kaaaay

perhaps a 'Beaver poop pile', or "Racoon dump" would be clearer

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants