Ammo Shortage

[Gravitymaster 0]

This government has no history of demonstrating a desire to save money. I can only go by that. Please feel free to argue they have suddenly decided ammunition purchasing is the beginning of a new era of financial responsibility.

[quade 3]

I do have to wonder about the amount of tin foil some people buy.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

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DHS just started answering questions (originally posed weeks ago) as to why they put out the orders they did, and the answers just don't add up.

Why do a lot of people buy in larger bulk quantities rather than placing many smaller orders?

Yes, buying bulk crates and pallets is cheaper per round than buying boxes of fifty. However there is a point of diminishing returns. The numbers requested by DHS are patently ridiculous. They don't use that many rounds. They certainly don't use JHP and duty quality ammo for training. That would preclude using cost as a basis for order size.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Gravitymaster 0]

"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".

[quade 3]

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"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".

Or in the case of some hears what they've been asking to hear and then disregards it.

People have been wanting government to cut waste, this does exactly that. What the F is the problem?

And for the record, I don't believe for a moment 1.6 billion rounds bought by the government in a single year has all that much of an affect on the shortage. It's not really all that much more than they'd use anyway.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

Odd place to start, don't you think?

[Kennedy 0]

So if they order gold plated diamond encrusted ID badges for every federal employee, but they order in bulk so the IDs cost thousands instead of $10,000 per person, would you say they are saving money an cutting waste?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 3]

How is this any different than the previous shortage fueled by NRA panic buying in 2008-2010? Did the government make a "secret" 1.6 billion round buy then and just not tell anyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–2010_United_States_ammunition_shortage

No. It's just panic buying for no logical reason.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

You don't really expect a rational answer, do you?

[Gravitymaster 0]

Perhaps, except it's the government that has created the panic.

[Kennedy 0]

Try to follow. JHP is jacketed hollow point. That is duty ammo. It is expensive because I materials and construction. It also tends to be loaded with better powder and primers inside of better cases. All that is why duty ammo costs as much as five times training ammo (Could be more, but most agencies won't use the cheapest of ammo for training).

So, if you can get 50% off ammo that costs fives times as much, is it a good deal? (esp if you could get the same discount on the cheaper stuff)

Also, why put in the order for so many more rounds than you'll ever need if you're not trying to jack up prices by initiating a scare? I don't know why, but I know it's not to save money.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 3]

You "know" nothing of the kind.

You;
Speculate,
Regurgitate,
Mentally master-bait,
And perpetuate a mythology,

But you do know "know."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rhaig 0]

So, if cost was the reason to put in such a large contract for ammo (which is a perfectly valid reason to buy in bulk) why put the contract in on more expensive ammo?

All I know is that I can do the basic math, and over the full term of the contract even, that's a hell of a lot of training ammo.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/1-6-billion-bullets-by-the-dhs-numbers/

do you care to offer an alternative opinion as to why the DHS has contracted for purchase this much ammo? Or would you prefer to continue to rhyme, misspell and/or randomly hyphenate.

--
Rob

[quade 3]

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Or would you prefer to continue to rhyme, misspell and/or randomly hyphenate.

There is nothing misspelled or random about the hyphenation in the rhyme. Consider an alternative meaning.

It's not, MY job to explain the wild speculation of the tin-foil hat crowd. It's their job to provide proof of their extraordinary claims.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[westcoastSD 0]

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On another note, WHY? Why is Ammo so scarce in the USA these days?

The DHS is purchasing it all.

They are also purchasing thousands of assault rifles and armoured vehicles.

You do not need a tin foil hat to see that they are preparing for civil unrest.

Those that are called tin foil hatter's have been warning about this for years.

Gun control first, then gun confiscation.

When you see these driving down your street;

http://www.navistardefense.com/NavistarDefense/vehicles/maxxpromrap/maxxpro_mrap

The you might say this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K49vP-1LKg

The world is a hairs breath from financial ruin, with that comes complications...

Serious complications.

[Kennedy 0]

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So, if cost was the reason to put in such a large contract for ammo (which is a perfectly valid reason to buy in bulk) why put the contract in on more expensive ammo?

All I know is that I can do the basic math, and over the full term of the contract even, that's a hell of a lot of training ammo.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/...-by-the-dhs-numbers/

do you care to offer an alternative opinion as to why the DHS has contracted for purchase this much ammo? Or would you prefer to continue to rhyme, misspell and/or randomly hyphenate.

There is nothing misspelled or random about the hyphenation in the rhyme. Consider an alternative meaning.

It's not, MY job to explain the wild speculation of the tin-foil hat crowd. It's their job to provide proof of their extraordinary claims.

Ok, you covered his final paragraph. So would you care to address any of his (or my) on topic points? You know, like explaining the part about how they picked the most expensive ammo in order to save money.

Is picking the unnecessarily expensive alternate the choice to save money? If you say it is, you're going to have to support your statement. Right now all you've done is avoid answering or answer so narrowly that you haven't made a point.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 3]

Oh, no, no, no. That's bullshit. First YOU PROVE to me the amount of this exceptional and expensive ammo is out of line with what they would normally buy. Please. PROVE it with verifiable government purchase records. Use a couple of years worth of records to eliminate spikes.

PROVE what you've claimed as fact.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[fpritchett64 0]

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Might want to try your friendly neighborhood federal law enforcement agency. They have a few million rounds to spare, I'm told.

I wish they would spare some to the agency that I work for. Every year during annual firearms qualification, we shoot the duty ammo that we've carried all year. We're then issued new duty ammo. This past fall (September to be exact) we were not able to do that due to the shortage of the duty ammo that we carry, which is the Winchester Ranger T-series. We kept our current issue of that round and qualified with like ammo. I called Winchester just last week because I'm trying to get my hands on some of the same ammo for my off duty gun that I use for concealed carry. Winchester said 6 months and that all law enforcement dealers are currently out of stock. Luckily another dealer had plenty of stock on Speer Gold Dot ammo, which I prefer anyway.

[Skyrad 0]

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DHS just started answering questions (originally posed weeks ago) as to why they put out the orders they did, and the answers just don't add up.

Why do a lot of people buy in larger bulk quantities rather than placing many smaller orders?

Yes, buying bulk crates and pallets is cheaper per round than buying boxes of fifty. However there is a point of diminishing returns. The numbers requested by DHS are patently ridiculous. They don't use that many rounds. They certainly don't use JHP and duty quality ammo for training. That would preclude using cost as a basis for order size.

The cost of storage alone would negate any return on a bulk buy of that size.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Not likely

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Andy9o8 0]

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hairs breath

Hair's breadth. The first word is a possessive, and the second word, breadth, means width. Ironically, a hair's breadth is roughly the thickness of foil.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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Ammo is still easy to get over here. But unfortunately we can't buy online like in the USA.

On another note, WHY? Why is Ammo so scarce in the USA these days?

Panic buying.
Plain and simple.

People are afraid that the government is going to place restrictions on what they can buy so they are buying up everything in sight.
And at ridiculous prices too. I hear that .223 is going for $20/box (of 20). A buck a round for .223.

The "Government is buying it all up to keep it out of our hands" is bullshit. I don't know of any government agencies that use large quantities of .22 Long Rifle, but it's as hard to find as anything.
And the production lines that make it are not easily convertible to anything else. 40 and 45 are fairly easy to find. Very pricey, but not hard to find. If most cops use 40, why hasn't the government "buy up" made that hard to find?

So it's 2009 (after Obama got elected) all over again.
Everyone panics, buys everything in sight, prices go through the roof.

Guns are in the exact same situation.

The manufacturers are going full tilt to try and meet the demand. Russian imports have gone through the roof. Wolf and Tula are pretty easy to find, although 223 flies off the shelf the instant it's put out.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Andy9o8 0]

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Ammo is still easy to get over here. But unfortunately we can't buy online like in the USA.

On another note, WHY? Why is Ammo so scarce in the USA these days?

Panic buying.
Plain and simple.

People are afraid that the government is going to place restrictions on what they can buy so they are buying up everything in sight.
And at ridiculous prices too. I hear that .223 is going for $20/box (of 20). A buck a round for .223.

The "Government is buying it all up to keep it out of our hands" is bullshit. I don't know of any government agencies that use large quantities of .22 Long Rifle, but it's as hard to find as anything.
And the production lines that make it are not easily convertible to anything else. 40 and 45 are fairly easy to find. Very pricey, but not hard to find. If most cops use 40, why hasn't the government "buy up" made that hard to find?

So it's 2009 (after Obama got elected) all over again.
Everyone panics, buys everything in sight, prices go through the roof.

Guns are in the exact same situation.

The manufacturers are going full tilt to try and meet the demand. Russian imports have gone through the roof. Wolf and Tula are pretty easy to find, although 223 flies off the shelf the instant it's put out.

Exactly. Silly suggestions that the current US govt is either (a) directly causing the shortage, or (b) responsible for the panic, are just foil-hat bullshit. If anything, the panic buying has been caused most by the NRA's fear & scare PR campaign.

[rushmc 18]

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DHS just started answering questions (originally posed weeks ago) as to why they put out the orders they did, and the answers just don't add up.

Why do a lot of people buy in larger bulk quantities rather than placing many smaller orders?

The amount they have ordered would stock the Iraq war for ten years
With ammo they can use in a war (hollow point)

And this calculation is made as if the military was using ammo at the highest point of the war

Why?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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Oh, no, no, no. That's bullshit. First YOU PROVE to me the amount of this exceptional and expensive ammo is out of line with what they would normally buy. Please. PROVE it with verifiable government purchase records. Use a couple of years worth of records to eliminate spikes.

PROVE what you've claimed as fact.

I just did

the DHS has ordered more ammo than the military would use in 10 years of the highest level of the Iraq war

Ammo the military can not use

Expensive hollow point ammo that is normally NOT used for practice

Why?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln