Combat veteran with "infidel" tattoo asked to leave Florida DZ

[shattenjager 0]

I just read on a Facebook page the story of a skydiver and disabled Iraq war veteran about that he was asked to cover his tattoo that in arabic reads as infidel from the DZ management because at the same time there was a Qatar group of skydivers training there whom they got offended.
The DZ is Florida Skydive Lake Wales.

As a Iraq war veteran AND American AND skydiver I feel really offended about the behavior of this DZ.
If you share my feelings, please let the DZ knows that you do not accept this kind of behavior.
What are your thoughts?

Here's the link of the story: http://www.adventuresofabrokensoldier.com/1/post/2013/04/wed-apr-3-2013.html

The mind is like a parachute: If you don't open it, it doesn't work.

[Trafficdiver 8]

If Infidels are not welcome at Lake Wales I'll gladly spend my money elsewhere.

I had planned on hitting there next time I was down too.

[oldwomanc6 38]

This is the business owner's right to ask this, but sad that he would choose to do so.

Would he also ask all the women to cover up? Ban pork products from the DZ for the duration?

I, too, would reconsider spending money there.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[Amazon 7]

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This is the business owner's right to ask this, but sad that he would choose to do so.

Would he also ask all the women to cover up? Ban pork products from the DZ for the duration?

I, too, would reconsider spending money there.

Ever visit the countries of the Arabian peninsula?.... I was offended almost every day I was there.. BUT.. their country.. their rules... I guess that does not work here in our own country.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Freedom of speech. I'm dismayed at the position the DZO of Lake Wales took. The Muslims like to call us exactly that, while crying for "death to America". They're offended? Boo hoo, sister.

[ryoder 1,381]

We have a lot of people living in the US with Jewish backgrounds. How many of them would get their panties in a wad over a tattoo with the word "Gentile"?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[airtwardo 6]

The DZ is Florida Skydive Lake Wales.

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Has anybody contacted THEM for 'the rest of the story'?

If it turns out to be true I'd question their practice as well...but I try not to get all flipped out by ANYTHING i read on the net until I check it out thoroughly.






...just sayin'

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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[piisfish 135]

Wouldn't that be Speakers Corner material ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[shattenjager 0]

Well, the story comes straight from the source, and I believe is true.
Been in the middle east several times I see that is totally possible.

The mind is like a parachute: If you don't open it, it doesn't work.

[GoHuskers 0]

There are two offenses here:

1) Tragically cliche tatoo

2) Needless Drama

[Squeak 17]

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There are two offenses here:

1) Tragically cliche tatoo

2) Needless Drama

The main offence is pretty much just basic ignorance all around
INFIDEL simply means "one who does not follow a particular faith".
It actually refers to non Christians as much as any other faith.



I proudly stand as an infidel to EVERY dumbarsed faith. Fucking dumbarsed fairy tale believers, the lot of them

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[shattenjager 0]

I agree that the tattoo is stupid and I'd never get anything like that, the point here is that this guy, can't express his thoughts here in America, without getting in that cheesy rethoric of god bless our troops and BS like that.
But I guess that is becoming the norm, since I am agnostic and all the christians I know look at me like I am a crazy lost soul.

The mind is like a parachute: If you don't open it, it doesn't work.

[shattenjager 0]

I'm glad I'm not alone with my "disbeliefs"

The mind is like a parachute: If you don't open it, it doesn't work.

[promise5 17]

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I agree that the tattoo is stupid and I'd never get anything like that, the point here is that this guy, can't express his thoughts here in America, without getting in that cheesy rethoric of god bless our troops and BS like that.
But I guess that is becoming the norm, since I am agnostic and all the christians I know look at me like I am a crazy lost soul.

I was going to say I'm a christian and I don't look at you that way, I look at you more like my Uncle Bill(he's an agnostic), but then I don't know you so I guess my not thinking your CRAZY lost soul doesn't count

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[airtwardo 6]

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Well, the story comes straight from the source, and I believe is true.
Been in the middle east several times I see that is totally possible.

What source....the person teling the story?

~again..has anybody spoke with a rep from the DZ?

I agree...IF TRUE, not a good thing, but you believing 'It's Possible' is a far cry from knowing it's true.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[jtval 0]

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This is the business owner's right to ask this, but sad that he would choose to do so.

Would he also ask all the women to cover up? Ban pork products from the DZ for the duration?

I, too, would reconsider spending money there.

Perris had the qatar military at the same time the US military (2 branches) were jumping.

Perris would not serve pork products to accomodate the qatari military.
I was pissed and sarcastic and vocal.

It's the owners (who I admire) choice to make money...but, It was a lame decision.
It'll be one that I talk about everytime I see this topic come up.

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[mr2mk1g 10]

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the point here is that this guy, can't express his thoughts here in America.

The point is, this guy did something that was about to hit the wallet of the DZO. Try doing that at your home DZ and see what happens.

The Qatari teams are spending big money at the moment. Tough choice - tell them to suck it up cupcake and they'll just go down the road and spend big money with your competitor instead. Or, pander to them, get them all the freaking blue M&M's they want and keep your business afloat.

I posted in the general skydiving thread in similar terms - we see it all the time in different ways. It's the little guy (solo visiting jumper with a couple of hundred jumps) who is most vulnerable out. They're always the least important as they spend the least, least likely to come back anyway, least likely to still be in the sport in 5 years time, least likely to have friends put off by your behaviour etc etc etc.

This is not really a story about freedom of speech, Qatar, Muslims, tattoos or anything else. This is the age old story of a newish licensed jumpers experiencing shoddy customer service. No wonder we loose so many before they hit 500 jumps. Either that or they get used to the behaviour, get on with it and make it past 500 despite their treatment. By that point they start to be important enough to matter anyway so the behaviour diminishes.

[Abuaeden 0]

I'm not saying my opinion is more valid than anyone elses, but I am an Arabic linguist and the Arabic language has been my profession for the last 16 years. I only mention it because it has given me an opportunity to see the word's place in modern lexicon. The word may mean 'non-believer' in a doctrinal sense but in Post-9/11 Iraq and Afghanistan it evokes images of anti-Islamic military occupation. Saying you got the word inked on your leg to tell people you aren't Muslim is like saying the reason you joined the Westboro Baptist Church is to let people know you aren't gay. Every language is full of words that have multiple meanings. For example, the word "spook" has its dictionary definition but has also been used as a racial slur. In Arabic, the term "Haji" is an honorific, used to address people who have (or assumed to have due to their advanced age) made the pilgrimage to Mecca according to the tenents of Islam. American soldiers turned the word into a slur (urbandictionary.com has some examples if you're interested) similar to 'nip' (from WWII), 'slope' (from Korea and Vietnam) and 'skinny' (Somalia). All of those words have other meanings but have taken different, inflammatory usages with time. Do a Google image search for "infidel" and you'll see the results are decidedly militaristic and anti-Muslim. I think the swastika example is a good one. Originally it meant one thing but it has come to symbolize something completely different and much more offensive. I don't have a problem with the tattoo itself but I also don't have a problem with the DZO exercising their right to refuse service to anyone they feel is hindering their business. If the skydiving community decided to boycott that DZ based on the management's policy, I support that too. All I'm saying is that you can't make a conscious decision to display a potentially offensive tattoo and be surprised when people are offended. The tattoo is little more than a taunt and he got exactly what he was looking for.. a reaction.

[nigel99 143]

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the point here is that this guy, can't express his thoughts here in America.

The point is, this guy did something that was about to hit the wallet of the DZO. Try doing that at your home DZ and see what happens.

The Qatari teams are spending big money at the moment. Tough choice - tell them to suck it up cupcake and they'll just go down the road and spend big money with your competitor instead. Or, pander to them, get them all the freaking blue M&M's they want and keep your business afloat.

I posted in the general skydiving thread in similar terms - we see it all the time in different ways. It's the little guy (solo visiting jumper with a couple of hundred jumps) who is most vulnerable out. They're always the least important as they spend the least, least likely to come back anyway, least likely to still be in the sport in 5 years time, least likely to have friends put off by your behaviour etc etc etc.

This is not really a story about freedom of speech, Qatar, Muslims, tattoos or anything else. This is the age old story of a newish licensed jumpers experiencing shoddy customer service. No wonder we loose so many before they hit 500 jumps. Either that or they get used to the behaviour, get on with it and make it past 500 despite their treatment. By that point they start to be important enough to matter anyway so the behaviour diminishes.

Spot on.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Squeak 17]

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I'm not saying my opinion is more valid than anyone elses, but I am an Arabic linguist and the Arabic language has been my profession for the last 16 years. I only mention it because it has given me an opportunity to see the word's place in modern lexicon. The word may mean 'non-believer' in a doctrinal sense but in Post-9/11 Iraq and Afghanistan it evokes images of anti-Islamic military occupation. Saying you got the word inked on your leg to tell people you aren't Muslim is like saying the reason you joined the Westboro Baptist Church is to let people know you aren't gay. Every language is full of words that have multiple meanings. For example, the word "spook" has its dictionary definition but has also been used as a racial slur. In Arabic, the term "Haji" is an honorific, used to address people who have (or assumed to have due to their advanced age) made the pilgrimage to Mecca according to the tenents of Islam. American soldiers turned the word into a slur (urbandictionary.com has some examples if you're interested) similar to 'nip' (from WWII), 'slope' (from Korea and Vietnam) and 'skinny' (Somalia). All of those words have other meanings but have taken different, inflammatory usages with time. Do a Google image search for "infidel" and you'll see the results are decidedly militaristic and anti-Muslim. I think the swastika example is a good one. Originally it meant one thing but it has come to symbolize something completely different and much more offensive. I don't have a problem with the tattoo itself but I also don't have a problem with the DZO exercising their right to refuse service to anyone they feel is hindering their business. If the skydiving community decided to boycott that DZ based on the management's policy, I support that too. All I'm saying is that you can't make a conscious decision to display a potentially offensive tattoo and be surprised when people are offended. The tattoo is little more than a taunt and he got exactly what he was looking for.. a reaction.

Yup I'm fully conversant with both the dictionary and the common usage forms of many many words, Ya queer..
That is pretty much my point entirely. Words have no meaning, unless meaning is attributed to them.
The only power that they have is the power that any given individual grants said words.
Most of us cant get out of our own way and allow all manner of inane bullshit to upset and interfere with our calm.
Many of us could do well to get the fuck over ourselves, collectively and individually.
We're ALL a bunch of cunts in the end anyways.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Andy9o8 0]

LOL, you people are all missing what's really going on here. It's the ol' Ann Coulter trick.

How often is Lake Wales part of our community's conversation? Pretty much never, right? But now look who everyone's talking about!

There's no such thing as bad publicity. There's an outfit wedged among the vineyards of California that's proof positive of that.

[NewGuy2005 51]

I still think the whole story is doubtful.

[wayneflorida 0]

Should have had a Dirty Pirate Hookers reunion there jumping with the Qatar group.

[theonlyski 3]

Would be better to just go over there and watch porn on the tvs.

NSTIW, sitting in Qatar having to get one of our guys out of the brig because he got arrested by the Qatar customs for having porn and accidentally didn't take it out of his bag before we went thru customs.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[Madison 0]

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All I'm saying is that you can't make a conscious decision to display a potentially offensive tattoo and be surprised when people are offended. The tattoo is little more than a taunt and he got exactly what he was looking for.. a reaction.

EXACTLY. Thank You.

(I asked for a loved ones reaction to this. He is in the Military & also a skydiver serving overseas right now. Been serving 20yrs. )

"The Military doesn't train it's soldiers to act like whiney bitches. A real soldier would have said,"Yes, Ma'am" instead of trashing a DZ.

I also know alot of people who came overseas, never saw action, and choose to use their Military status to bitch about everything for the rest of their lives and think they are entitled to free shit everywhere they go..they are an embarrassment to the Military, because the few bitching give us all a bad name. No wonder we are treated like crap when we get home.

If this is the kind of shit that infuriates this guy I wonder how he got through any type of deployment at all. I give people more shit during our morning shit than this DZ did.

I value being a skydiver. We get to put all our differences aside and all be bonded by the beauty of it. I don't want to go to any DZ where some pansy ass U.S.ex-soldier gets all butt hurt because he can't set his differences aside.

He wanted a reaction, that's what he got. Be a f*cking man about it, not a F*ckin pussy! Or just leave the DZ if you don't like they way they run it. The more places to jump, the better. The more pansy-ass butt hurt people that aren't at a DZ, the better.

I have some very good friends from Qatar. I understand and respect their culture because I'm smart and a decent guy. My Military status doesn't give me the right to be a f*ckin prick every where I go.
This country would do better to realize we all get freedom of speech no matter where you are from. It's what we fight for and what makes this country great. Don't like people excercising their right to speak up? Only you get freedom, not anyone else?
Man up & STFU asshole."
(end of letter,name left out intentionally)
I agree with him.

Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.