rushmc 18 #151 March 27, 2013 QuoteQuote Looking at all that is in this post We need similar restrictions for free speech There are already restrictions on free speech, and I expect you support them. No we need to register the mouths of those who would talk in public"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #152 March 27, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuote Looking at all that is in this post We need similar restrictions for free speech There are already restrictions on free speech, and I expect you support them. No So you are in favor of false advertizing, then? And confidence tricksters and frauds like Bernie Madoff. And people who perjure themselves. Nice to know.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #153 March 27, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Looking at all that is in this post We need similar restrictions for free speech There are already restrictions on free speech, and I expect you support them. No So you are in favor of false advertizing, then? And confidence tricksters and frauds like Bernie Madoff. And people who perjure themselves. Nice to know. Does not matter what I am in favor of False adverstising is what got Obama elected and the ACH passed. You seem to selective as to who does something like you post Ends justify the means to you"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #154 March 27, 2013 Quotebut we're talking about a really long time constant to get to that point. I don't really think it'll do anything in terms of stopping high profile murders by criminals, but it does get law abiding citizens a requirement to take safety training, it does validate sellers that try to do the right thing If you're in law enforcement and you're dealing with a guy who you think is selling guns to people with no cards, and one of them turns up in a crime, how do you prove that he sold the guy the gun after the law went into effect? the seller shouldn't be responsible for the criminal's crimes - non issue Do you trust the guy who you've arrested for using the gun in a crime? Do you try to piece together the details of what was probably a cash transaction? Or do you send in an undercover officer as someone without a card and hope he slips up? trying to use the rule as a detective means would be subject to the vendor's ability to maintain his records voluntarily - if he doesn't keep good records, then the cop should leave him alone. If he does, that's great, but it's a bonus - private vendor has a right to maintain his records or not. Trying to legislate permanent records is too close to just government registration of each sale - no way. Private sales of cars.....do you know the names of the last three guys who bought your last three cars? shouldn't be any different - even if one of them used it to run over a pedestrian... And, more importantly, if you're a law abiding citizen who began checking for cards for all sales as soon as it was mandated, how do you get the law enforcement guy off your back when he or she comes asking about a gun you sold a while ago? Maybe you have good records and maybe you don't, but it shouldn't be on you to make a case that you didn't do anything wrong. exactly - if the law is HARASSING you, then you already have the ability to take legal action I don't think these are non-starters, but I think these two cases of grandfathered transactions need to be addressed up front, and in doing so people need to be comfortable with the idea that this will only help fix the problem eventually. I think this is just good practice - as a law, it's not enforcible really,....responsible sellers will appreciate it, the others won't be any better or worse. I don't think it'll fix the problem at all unless the public learns to use and respect firearms again as part of the culture, instead of today's complete ignorance and stupidity. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #155 March 27, 2013 If you are going to placate the masses with a placebo - at least do something that encourages responsible people to be safer. instead of something that would just take away our rights further ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #156 March 27, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Looking at all that is in this post We need similar restrictions for free speech There are already restrictions on free speech, and I expect you support them. No So you are in favor of false advertizing, then? And confidence tricksters and frauds like Bernie Madoff. And people who perjure themselves. Nice to know. Does not matter what I am in favor of Can't answer without revealing your hypocritical position, eh?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #157 March 27, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Looking at all that is in this post We need similar restrictions for free speech There are already restrictions on free speech, and I expect you support them. No So you are in favor of false advertizing, then? And confidence tricksters and frauds like Bernie Madoff. And people who perjure themselves. Nice to know. Does not matter what I am in favor of Can't answer without revealing your hypocritical position, eh? I dont try with you anymore You dont like my answer fine At least I a honest in my positions More than you can say about yourself"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #158 March 27, 2013 Quote At least I a honest in my positions As we see in just your last few replies.Honestly inconsistent for sure.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #159 March 27, 2013 I think we're on the same page. What I was trying to do in my examples is throw out some situations where law enforcement tried to enforce such a law, or tried to do their jobs with this law on the books, and see where things could go pear-shaped. I don't think police are going to try to hold a seller responsible for a person they sold a gun to's actions, but I can definitely see a politician coming along and telling everyone he or she is "gonna get tough on delinquent sellers." only to go around harassing people who don't keep good records and share them readily. What I think may not be clear, as evidenced by people suggesting I be gagged, is that any record kept of a private sale is still just that, private. This wouldn't empower cops to go around demanding sale records from everyone and if you're missing one, "well, take his card, oh and the rest of the guns here." There's no paperwork that follows a firearm around to be "out of order" which is a key feature of this approach, and there's no searchable database or list that results, which is another. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #160 April 3, 2013 On the other hand, it's been reported that some gun shops jhave posted his picture in the front of their store and under the picture" "Salesman of the Year!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #161 April 3, 2013 Quote On the other hand, it's been reported that some gun shops jhave posted his picture in the front of their store and under the picture" "Salesman of the Year!" I haven't seen anyone's picture so widely used as an icon of evil since .... I'm gonna say it .... Hitler's! Yeah, Republicans, keep it up. And keep wondering why fewer and fewer women are voting with you. Even your wives and daughters. Who black men want to... well, that's another discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #162 April 3, 2013 "I haven't seen anyone's picture so widely used as an icon of evil since .... I'm gonna say it .... Hitler's!" Hey, you may be on to something! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
